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On April 29 2011 17:17 Rek1zek wrote:1st post, woo \o/ I use this build for every of my PvT matchup, based on the ChiTaPrime 2 Gate Pressure into Expand BuildShow nested quote +edit: Of course, I didn't actually play naniwa using this build so who knows if the robo is supposed to come on time but the few times I ran into this situation, the protoss typically had a robo building but not complete. I just send my proxy pylon's probe run up the Terran's ramp to check his army composition. If I see heavy marines, i just directly put my Robo, my observer came in perfect timing to counter any clocked banshee. If not, just plant more gateways.
Didn't know that was on Liquipedia! I saw Naniwa using this in January though. When did other people start doing it?
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While studying Nani's MLG Dallas run I came across this build and even found a couple games where he outright killed the terran with his 2 gate poke. It was pretty funny, but it was only mid-way through the open bracket and his opponents were no names. Real weakness is just if you can't kill any standing army of the terrans you create this window where you have to cut everything to put a robo down while still continuing to make gateway units.
A lot of you guys struggling with a banshee response to this should honestly try just cutting workers and only building units while adding your robo and one additional gateway. Resume probe production when you're ready for banshees. You won't be behind in workers or economy because if you say a CC up the ramp he's either not attacking, not going banshees, or didn't have the marine count to survive your poke.
I've never had trouble with banshees as a response to this using this method, I will try to get some replays against good opponents to post here if I can though some of you blue posters are in GM while im only masters.
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Infinity has a few replays showing that his cloak banshee can get several probe kills before an observer is out.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-206018.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-206019.jpg)
So it might be a good idea to take the 2nd gas when Minigun does and mine from it regardless of whether or not you see marauders.
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Actually this build order was first written by ChitaPrime couple months ago. I was using this build order for a while and was getting 85% win ratio against terrans. I was actually thinking of writing this build order but I'm not a good writer and this build had weakness so I didn't bother. This build is weak against banshee rush or banshee followed up by marine+banshee+tank+raven+scv allins.
I actually used a variation of this build. With the mentioned build above, you need to get gas asap after the gateway and mine it fast as possible in order to get a sentry out after a zealot. Smart terrans who micro the scv well will scout that the toss have only 1 gas and will scout until the sentry comes out. Instead of 1 zealot 1 sentry 4 stalker rush, I go for 1 zealot 5 stalker. This is actually better for the terran that pressures with the early 2 marine maruader scv rush. I wrote up a build order and some replays for my friends a while ago. Here is the link for someone who is interested.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10758013/2gate.rar
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I'm having a lot of trouble vs 3 rax MM expand while using 2Gate Robo. Is this build a little better suited to handle that if I scout the early tech lab? I'm specifically having trouble dealing with the second push of MM right as I transfer to my natural off 2gate robo.
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On April 30 2011 05:52 CardinalSC wrote:
I'm having a lot of trouble vs 3 rax MM expand while using 2Gate Robo. Is this build a little better suited to handle that if I scout the early tech lab? I'm specifically having trouble dealing with the second push of MM right as I transfer to my natural off 2gate robo.
If you scout it with your observer, that's your cue to make immortals and a third gate. And since it's a 1 base semi all-in, you should be cutting probes and spamming as many units as you can. I have yet to encounter a 3 rax with naniwa's build.
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Great writeup, wish I had started doing this on the ladder before it became so popular ^_^
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I have been using this build in PvT since MLG Dallas. I have to say I really love it. The opening is so strong, gives you a balanced army along with a FE. There are so many paths to take after the first attack. Either add robo or jump up to pure WG with forges. Highly recommended for any protoss player to learn it.
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Thank you!
Tried this build versus my friend the other day, and since my timing was off he had an expansion up along with two bunkers at the natural. It was on metalopolis, so it was very easy to run around the back and harass his mineral line. The unit comp of 1 sentry, 4 stalkers, 1 zealot is very powerful for low numbers of marine/marauder if you micro your stalkers well and don't let the sentry unnecessarily die.
Does anyone know of a way to avoid quick banshee? Throw down robo right as one attacks?
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This build is really good, nevertheless in the first couple of games I tried it a couple of weeks ago, I found that it is surprisingly weak vs a very standard 3 rax early stim all-in that is hidden (!). With hidden I mean that the terran walls off completely and kinda fakes a tech opening. The problem is, that the push hits just when you are really weak due to the complete lack of scouting - and you need to push for the observer since the opponent could very well do a tech opening. But I guess it's more like just me being bad than the build having a real disadvantage there.
Socke also uses (used?) this build a lot, he also has some very interesting transitions like fast DTs vs a no gas FE where he just keeps poking with zealot/stalker and forces scvs being pulled early on.
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On May 01 2011 23:16 CardinalSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2011 09:03 FictionSC wrote:
Great writeup, wish I had started doing this on the ladder before it became so popular ^_^ Thank you! Tried this build versus my friend the other day, and since my timing was off he had an expansion up along with two bunkers at the natural. It was on metalopolis, so it was very easy to run around the back and harass his mineral line. The unit comp of 1 sentry, 4 stalkers, 1 zealot is very powerful for low numbers of marine/marauder if you micro your stalkers well and don't let the sentry unnecessarily die. Does anyone know of a way to avoid quick banshee? Throw down robo right as one attacks?
You won't have enough gas. Minigun's solution (first page) works very well. Basically, you get gas before nexus (so slightly delay nexus).
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i saw drewbie one night trying so bad to counter Naniwa's build.
he kept asking him to rematch so he could try new stuff, Nani kept rolling him.
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It's builds like this that make me think PvT is imba for P. Not complaining, though. I like my 90% winrate against T very much indeed. I've usually preferred 1gate expand with a 2zeal1stalker timing push, but this looks to be very interesting indeed.
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I play all 3 races from time to time, and this build just absolutely murdered my Terran play. I actually got pissed because I thought I lost to a 4 gate. Then I watched the replay where he had 2 gates, a robo and an expo, and my mind was blown.
Nice guide.
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On May 01 2011 23:26 sleepingdog wrote:
This build is really good, nevertheless in the first couple of games I tried it a couple of weeks ago, I found that it is surprisingly weak vs a very standard 3 rax early stim all-in that is hidden (!). With hidden I mean that the terran walls off completely and kinda fakes a tech opening. The problem is, that the push hits just when you are really weak due to the complete lack of scouting - and you need to push for the observer since the opponent could very well do a tech opening. But I guess it's more like just me being bad than the build having a real disadvantage there.
Socke also uses (used?) this build a lot, he also has some very interesting transitions like fast DTs vs a no gas FE where he just keeps poking with zealot/stalker and forces scvs being pulled early on.
Wait, really? I'm a bit confused as to how this hidden tech surprises you with the early zealot/sentry/4 stalker poke. I've had terran players intelligently attempt to hide 3rax with just a marine bunker and marauders further back in the base, but the poke is strong enough it should force reveal them. Perhaps you're being too passive, or not building the last 2 stalkers close enough to the terran base? (I prefer a proxy pylon if at all possible).
Indeed the opening is very flexible, and going fast DTs, robo, or dual forge from it works really nicely. I also agree with other posters that getting the 2nd gas quickly is crucial. I usually throw it down just after building my nexus.
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A good build, it worked twice in my first two games using it. But some questions:
Do you stop creating probes after 19/20 supply (of probes) and while your pushing until you warp in the last 2 stalkers? Or...?
What do you suggest following up the expansion with? Colossus?
Does this build work against other races?
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Im using this build and having alot of success with it. If the terran doesnt seem to look to be expanding i try and throw up a forge and cannon in the minral line to detect banshee.. and can always throw up a cannon if the terran is doing a one base push. Worth cutting probes for to get forge as you will still have 2 bases and if you hold the attack or the banshee you are way ahead anyway.
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Terrans rage quitting thinking this is a 4gate.  Thanks so much for the build, very clean!
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So if this feels so much like a 4 gate, is there any chance we could adapt this for PvP?
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EPT
