• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 17:08
CET 23:08
KST 07:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation7Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time? SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA
Tourneys
RSL S3 Round of 16 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle Terran 1:35 12 Gas Optimization BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1704 users

[G]PvT Naniwa build - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Helluva
Profile Joined September 2010
United States651 Posts
May 04 2011 06:12 GMT
#41
Awesome stuff, I'll definitely look into this.
Abuse the strat as much as possible until next patch ~~
gogo
<3
tooleman
Profile Joined April 2011
United States20 Posts
May 04 2011 06:15 GMT
#42
With the WG tech time changed to 160 opposed to 180 in the upcoming patch will this build still be effective? I understand if the patch had remained with a research time of 180 seconds that the build would not have been nearly as effective and most likely would have had to be changed. Would the current BO be effective with the research time at 160? Also, do note that as of now build time for zealots and stalkers will be back to 38 and 42 seconds (only the sentry build time is cut by 5 seconds).
Arco
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2090 Posts
May 04 2011 06:16 GMT
#43
On May 04 2011 15:15 tooleman wrote:
With the WG tech time changed to 160 opposed to 180 in the upcoming patch will this build still be effective? I understand if the patch had remained with a research time of 180 seconds that the build would not have been nearly as effective and most likely would have had to be changed. Would the current BO be effective with the research time at 160? Also, do note that as of now build time for zealots and stalkers will be back to 38 and 42 seconds (only the sentry build time is cut by 5 seconds).

Just came here wondering myself. Would like to see people's thoughts on this.
iamke55
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States2806 Posts
May 04 2011 06:25 GMT
#44
On May 04 2011 15:15 tooleman wrote:
With the WG tech time changed to 160 opposed to 180 in the upcoming patch will this build still be effective? I understand if the patch had remained with a research time of 180 seconds that the build would not have been nearly as effective and most likely would have had to be changed. Would the current BO be effective with the research time at 160? Also, do note that as of now build time for zealots and stalkers will be back to 38 and 42 seconds (only the sentry build time is cut by 5 seconds).


Naniwa already does 3 zealots 1 sentry and 4 stalkers occasionally instead of 6 units. That should work fine after the patch.
During practice session, I discovered very good build against zerg. -Bisu[Shield]
CatNzHat
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1599 Posts
May 04 2011 06:35 GMT
#45
nice build, abusing the fact that protoss units are just better than terran units before medivac and stim are done (which both take like forever unless rushed for, in which case you'll have no units to benefit from them).

Hopefully the patch will fix this, but I have a feeling that a lot of zealot all-in 4gate/5gate attacks after expanding will become the norm in PvT, we'll have to see though:D
tooleman
Profile Joined April 2011
United States20 Posts
May 04 2011 06:35 GMT
#46
On May 04 2011 15:25 iamke55 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 15:15 tooleman wrote:
With the WG tech time changed to 160 opposed to 180 in the upcoming patch will this build still be effective? I understand if the patch had remained with a research time of 180 seconds that the build would not have been nearly as effective and most likely would have had to be changed. Would the current BO be effective with the research time at 160? Also, do note that as of now build time for zealots and stalkers will be back to 38 and 42 seconds (only the sentry build time is cut by 5 seconds).


Naniwa already does 3 zealots 1 sentry and 4 stalkers occasionally instead of 6 units. That should work fine after the patch.


I'm sorry if this is a really dumb question but I'm guessing he builds the extra 2 zealots before the sentry and just pushes the other units back to coordinate with the later WG timing?

Btw this is a great guide and I now use this build as my standard in PvT on most maps. Thank you!
Arco
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2090 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 06:39:08
May 04 2011 06:35 GMT
#47
I just tested this on the PTR. It works fine with 160 seconds, you just need to save Nexus energy after the second Chrono Boost, not the third. Then Warpgate lines up almost perfectly with Stalker x2 completion.
Melchior
Profile Joined January 2011
United States112 Posts
May 04 2011 07:14 GMT
#48
Awesome! I just tried this out and might make this my standard PvT build. A couple questions:

1) Will going sentry first leave you open for reaper harass? I presume sentry first is to build up more energy for FF/guardian shield.

2) Would this be a viable PvZ build? It would look like a 4gate because of the chrono on WG, but get out a reasonably fast expand while forcing units/static defense from Z. My guess is the main problem is that they're most likely still getting their expansion faster than you, and you don't have the number of sentries needed to effectively deal with roach/ling.

Thanks again for bringing attention to this build, even if it has been around for a while.
TheDemigod
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia79 Posts
May 04 2011 10:20 GMT
#49
On May 04 2011 16:14 Melchior wrote:
Awesome! I just tried this out and might make this my standard PvT build. A couple questions:

1) Will going sentry first leave you open for reaper harass? I presume sentry first is to build up more energy for FF/guardian shield.

2) Would this be a viable PvZ build? It would look like a 4gate because of the chrono on WG, but get out a reasonably fast expand while forcing units/static defense from Z. My guess is the main problem is that they're most likely still getting their expansion faster than you, and you don't have the number of sentries needed to effectively deal with roach/ling.

Thanks again for bringing attention to this build, even if it has been around for a while.


Yeah a bunch of lings or roaches will crush your units with only 1 sentry, and you don't have the reinforcing that you do with a 4gate, it's more the initial push and its power to contain for T for awhile that's strong.
drolkrad
Profile Joined September 2010
98 Posts
May 04 2011 12:11 GMT
#50
this is a good build however like many builds there are counters for it... this build is weak against:
1. quick banshee
2. hellion drop (all your units are near his ramp, and you only got 2 warpgate up with little gas left for stalkers)
3. 3 rax stimmed timing pushes
4. 7 rax marine all in

terrans can easily defend their ramp with bunkers and take on anyone of these paths and kick some serious ass after defending the initial poke

sometimes even a single reaper can cause havoc vs this build if your units aren't in your base and your warpgates are on cooldown ><
loklok
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany161 Posts
May 04 2011 12:37 GMT
#51
On May 04 2011 15:15 tooleman wrote:
With the WG tech time changed to 160 opposed to 180 in the upcoming patch will this build still be effective? I understand if the patch had remained with a research time of 180 seconds that the build would not have been nearly as effective and most likely would have had to be changed. Would the current BO be effective with the research time at 160? Also, do note that as of now build time for zealots and stalkers will be back to 38 and 42 seconds (only the sentry build time is cut by 5 seconds).


I think it would be more a defensive build because your attack timing will be delayed and you have to produce 2 more units instead of warping them in.

I really like this build because it's the best compromise between 3 gate expo and 1 gate FE. Compared to 3 gate expo it's much better against banshee play and saver than 1 gate FE. If i can't read my oponent i skip 1 stalker, get the gas earlier to have a fast robo and play defensive.
Zerg1
Profile Joined April 2011
27 Posts
May 04 2011 15:50 GMT
#52
This is a godly build and I think it will become the standard in pvt. I don't see the change to 180 really affecting it since you can simply skip 1 chrono on probes and use it on warp gates instead. I love this build so much after watching all 4 of those replays

I think the biggest problem is the stim timing push, but it looks like as long as you don't lose your stalkers that you will still do significant enough damage to justify it. If you see a lot of marines, make a forge and make 1-2 cannons at the natural and go stalker sentry and only hit when they are in range of the cannon.

Good job naniwa!
Rek1zek
Profile Joined January 2011
France6 Posts
May 05 2011 12:25 GMT
#53
Good job naniwa!


first time i saw this build from ChiTaPrime was in nov-december, so the merit deserves to him.

Btw, you don't really need thoses canons. when I you see the stim push comin', i just cut the probe and pump more zealots sentries. As it's said earlier, you really need to keeps your first 4 stalkers alive.
dafnay
Profile Joined May 2010
Angola375 Posts
May 12 2011 13:14 GMT
#54
is this build still strong in this patch?
randplaty
Profile Joined September 2010
205 Posts
May 16 2011 22:55 GMT
#55
Seems like Naniwa abandoned this build in favor of 1 gate FE into fast collossus during the TSL finals vs Thorzain. I wonder if the patch hurt him more than it hurt Thorzain.
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
May 16 2011 23:19 GMT
#56
Build seems dead, the fit was really tight before and the 20 seconds makes a huge difference. Less safe expo and less pressure.
Using a build with sentries just makes more sense now.
TDC
Profile Joined May 2010
United States197 Posts
May 17 2011 04:16 GMT
#57
I've been using this build a lot lately, but when I see a completed bunker and 2 marauders, I just back out because I feel like I'll be losing more than I gain. after that I transition into colossi, but since my expo's usually later than my opponent's I feel like I am slightly behind the whole game unless I catch their drop attempts and kill it off without losing much
Top 25 master league Toss http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1253149/TDC
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
May 17 2011 15:43 GMT
#58
Awesome build, Thinking about to moving into protoss recently from Terran, definitely would book mark this thread for reference. Just curious is this build also viable in pvz and pvp?
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
black_drag0n
Profile Joined May 2011
4 Posts
May 17 2011 16:03 GMT
#59
Was playing around with this build after the patch a bit and it just feels like the push is 15-25 seconds too late. Gotta admit that i am not a very good player but before the patch it felt like everything just fits and those steps were not bumpy in any way.
So as i like this type of opening where i can pressure the terran and expand relatively early i am still searching fotr a viable way to achiev this. but trying with different unitcompositions did not help too much till now.
If i get to a point where i say that i found a way to accomplish this i will surely post it in this forum as here are many much more skilled and experienced players that could have advice....
but for now i just can say the way it was played before it does not work anymore.
So if you came up with similar playing styles that work well it would be kind to post those.
ximae
Profile Joined January 2011
181 Posts
May 17 2011 17:51 GMT
#60
it works fine for me after some minor adjustments, push comes just 5-10 secs later

i just crono 2 times probes, first on 11 second at 14 (so i can place assim at 13 just after gate) then the rest on wg.

So the build remains the same just that ur one probe behind on every step o the bo.

its not as clean as before though ( 2nd gate pops a tad bit after u start 1st stalker, and gotta wait a sec to get second stalker due to gas shortage)... but still as efective.


pd: i do recomend putting the second gas at 32-33, so u got enough gas soon enough to get a robo while u push, banshees can be a pain if not.



Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 52m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
White-Ra 308
PiGStarcraft265
JuggernautJason96
Livibee 92
ZombieGrub75
ProTech39
ForJumy 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2142
Shuttle 487
UpATreeSC 123
sas.Sziky 70
Rock 29
Sexy 21
NaDa 13
ivOry 11
Dota 2
syndereN230
Counter-Strike
Foxcn361
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King69
Other Games
Grubby4792
Liquid`Hasu346
C9.Mang077
Maynarde51
Trikslyr45
Nathanias20
fpsfer 1
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 36
• RyuSc2 4
• Adnapsc2 4
• Dystopia_ 2
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21001
• WagamamaTV413
• lizZardDota249
League of Legends
• imaqtpie3369
• TFBlade1231
Other Games
• Shiphtur266
Upcoming Events
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
52m
The PondCast
11h 52m
RSL Revival
11h 52m
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
13h 52m
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Cure
Reynor vs TBD
WardiTV Korean Royale
13h 52m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 2h
RSL Revival
1d 11h
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
1d 13h
herO vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
IPSL
2 days
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
BSL 21
2 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
3 days
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.