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[D]Compendium of zerg cheeses & all ins

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Venomous Drone
Profile Joined January 2011
48 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-02 10:57:07
April 24 2011 19:16 GMT
#1
Protoss have many cheeses, terran have also some great all ins and cheeses, but zerg....zerg seems to be a very "standard" race. We zergs like to play long drawn out games.

Thats bad, thats very bad. It makes us predictable, it makes it possible for terrans and protosses to make economically optimal BO's which sacrifice early defense or dont waste scans.

We need to mix up our play and thus i have decided that a zerg cheese and all in compendium would be a good idea, saving people from having to use the dreaded search function and stimulating brainstorming in this area.

Yes, this is meant to be a thinktank for zerg cheese and theorycrafters are welcome, yet i would prefer it if they tried out their theories in at least 5 games before posting them. Also, if a high level player sees an idea here that he thinks can work and decides to try it out and fine tune it, please contribute your results to all the zerg community.

Post data: The cheeses shown here are useful at ANY level of play, this is NOT meant to be a low level or beginners guide to cheeses. IDRA, CATZ, MACHINE, KYRIX, ST.JULY are pro players that have used, and will continue to use, some of the cheeses that you will read about here.

Without further ado i will start putting links to different cheeses out there:

Baneling bust:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Baneling_Rush_(vs._Terran)

Its possible to use the hatch cancel trick to put the baneling nest at your natural, to trick the enemy into thinking you are expanding as july did at one GSL. Or you can simply use it to hide your bane nest anywhere on the map.

Eco baneling bust (Kyrix):

Upon popular demand behold...the eco baneling aggression!
+ Show Spoiler +
This is how Machine does it, you can see it here: http://mrbitter.blip.tv/file/4692368/ at 1:08:40

It's standard play:
14 hatch
15 pool--> two queens
25 two extractors
@100 gas-->ling speed
@50 gas--> Bane nest
Make 30 drones or so and then all lings and banes--> attack for the win.

It doesnt have to be exactly like this, you can adapt it to your own BO as long as you keep certain important things: try to keep your drone count at around 30-31, make only 2 extractors, make 2 queens, dont get Lair (it slows down the attack)

7 Roach Rush:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/7_Roach_Rush_/_Expand_/_Lair

12 drone rush:

+ Show Spoiler +
Make drones up to 10/10 then do a double extractor trick and make 2 more drones.
You are now at 12/10 supply, with some spare minerals.
Attack the enemys workers right away and micro to keep your drones alive (right clicking minerals with your wounded drones to save them).
As your drones start to die make extra drones rallied to his base with the extra minerals you have

Against terran you have the advantage that your drones regenerate health so you can run them around to heal


6 pool:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=112720

9 pool pressure:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=211407

3 roach speedling all in:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190292

No queen FE roach:


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=201678

Thankyou Fishermang

Proxy hatch (GoldenfOu's):

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172123

You can also make the hatch inside his base and build spine crawlers + queens to expand the creep and slow push him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0IQuHeIOF4


4 drone harassment (Catz):

http://mrbitter.blip.tv/file/4678044/

Catz explains a bit the logic behind this drone rush and how to execute it in this VOD, its worth seeing the whole VOD to learn how to be a bit less standard, thankyou Mr.Bitter!

Its at 1hour 17 minutes

hydra doom drop:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=161718

Machine shows how he does hydra drops in this VOD: http://mrbitter.blip.tv/file/4692368/ look it up at 53 minutes 16 seconds

Double roach warren +1 push (theorycraft):

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=214215

zvz 6 pool+spine rush:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147886

Double evo rush:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146895

in the VOD i have linked to in the 4 drone harassment section Catz uses the evo chamber rush to block the wall off of a toss and proceeds to use a speedling rush timed to hit when the evo dies. Quite cool!

Look it up, its at the 28 minute mark of the VOD

Hydra/ling timing attack vs Protoss FE:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=198534

Contributed by Advocado, thankyou!

2 Hatch Nydus allin:

Contributed by Big J, a masters player. Thankyou!
+ Show Spoiler +

14 hatch
14 pool
14 gas
standard 4-6 defensive zerglings and 1queen
25 2nd gas
@100gas zergling speed
@100gas lair
use every single larva you have on zerglings from here on
@lair you should have 300gas
build a nydus (best hide it in your base with OL-creep)
build an overseer
@100gas pull your guys out of your gases
build the nydus worm (use your overseer)
~50 supply overrun his base with 40-50 speedlings (which should be between 7:30 and 8:00)

I guess you can and really should fit in a second queen at some point (to kill banshees or void rays or something like that) and maybe even get some extra lings.
what it works against:
-banshees
-thor rush
-1rax expand
-any kind of protoss expand (even against 3gate expand!)
-2starport phoenix
-maybe against a dt rush but I havent played it (you have a fast overseer, and you can produce easily more if you just keep your gas going )
-any kinds of forge expands

the problem with that build is that: you need to hide your nydus, you need to show him enough drones at you expo so he thinks your droning (just "overtransfer" drones), and you need to find a place for your nydus, which is usually the biggest problem as most bases are pretty small, and easy revealed with 2-3 pylons or depots.


zvz speedling rush:


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=192260

Thankyou Fishermang

Infestor rush:

Here is a replay of a masters player who uses the infestor rush against whitera:

http://sc2replay.me/replay/b935638c70ae8bbf80f3f2bcb428d6b8

It still needs to be refined so i hope everyone tries it out and lets see who comes up with the best infestor rush BO!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0f36Qf8vX0
Fishermang
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway56 Posts
April 24 2011 22:49 GMT
#2
Fantastic thread! I have been looking for something like this

I would then suggest to add these:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=192260 by michaelhasanalias, for zvz only, which goes a fast speed ling aggression at 26.

and

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=201678 also by michaelhasanalias, for zvt, with the purpose of tricking your opponent to think that you are going for a macro game with FE, while you build no queens, and instead rush roaches.
Firekidt
Profile Joined March 2011
United States28 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-25 04:46:24
April 25 2011 04:45 GMT
#3
On April 25 2011 04:16 Venomous Drone wrote:

3 roach speedling all in:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190292

All zergs need to know this build. One of the biggest reasons Zergs cannot drone safely in the early game against Protoss is because there is always the threat of some form of a 4 gate. This build is the equivalent of a 4 gate, and beats any Protoss that doesn't go forge first or doesn't get at least 2 sentries, forcing them to play a little bit more cautiously. If this build spreads, all Zergs will have a slightly easier time against Protoss who are wary of it.

It hits before a stargate finishes, even on scrap station, and severely punishes a Protoss who built all 3 of his 4 gates at the same time to prevent you from scouting a 4 gate. The timings are very precise for this build, and try not to show your Roach Warren if you can help it. This build works 90% of the time in all leagues below diamond, and can even work at the Masters level if it catches a Protoss off guard.
"Shut up your terran"
oOOoOphidian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1402 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-25 12:10:02
April 25 2011 12:09 GMT
#4
With proper micro and chrono boosts used on units, or just a simple full wall off, the 3 roach speedling all-in is easily held off. It isn't really effective unless your opponent has never seen it before or did a very greedy build.

To contribute, this game might be worth considering in regards to the Infestor rush mentioned above:

ZvP on Backwater Gulch (cross positions), Shins vs WhiteRa
Creator of sc2unmasked.com
Venomous Drone
Profile Joined January 2011
48 Posts
April 25 2011 13:35 GMT
#5
@oOOoOphidian: Good one! i´ve looked it up but theres no replay of that game, hiwever i found another replay in which Shins uses the infestor rush, i have updated that section with it.
VidyaYuropa
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
87 Posts
April 25 2011 14:01 GMT
#6

Protoss have many cheeses, terran have also some great all ins and cheeses, but zerg....zerg seems to be a very "standard" race. We zergs like to play long drawn out games.

I have to disagree with Zerg to be not cheesey. Around every third Zerg on the Ladder tries to banelingbust. I think Terran is the most non-cheese (altough we have pretty awesome all-ins).
[for me: cheese =/= All in]

Still a good compendium for every beginning Zerg player.
420 smoke a blunt
Venomous Drone
Profile Joined January 2011
48 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-25 14:18:46
April 25 2011 14:12 GMT
#7
Well, im glad that zergs baneling bust now and again but they dont do it as much as protosses do 4 gates o terrans bunker rushes. Anyway i hope that with this compendium zergs will start to do more unpredictable cheeses against you, just to keep you on your toes

By the way, this isnt meant only for beginning zergs. I hope to get even masters players to contribute their own cheeses (as one already has). Also dont think these cheeses are useless at higher levels, even Idra has 6 pooled now and again in a tournament, Catz uses his 4 drone harass often too and Kyrix has become famous for his eco bane bust while ST.July has used the modified baneling bust with hatch creep trick.

Cheeses are useful at every level of play
babysimba
Profile Joined November 2010
10466 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-25 15:42:41
April 25 2011 15:31 GMT
#8
ZvT Bling Bust
July vs MVP: Hatch first, pool, gas (get speed first, then bling nest asap), skip queens, non stop production of lings. Ling speed will finish around the same time bling nest is completed. You can transfer most of the drones to the natural while hiding your lings, to trick any opponent scouting your natural but not your main. Just pull sufficient lings to kill any marines or scv scout.

ZvP Proxy hatch against Forge FE/Nexus first
15 proxy hatch, pool, gas, roach warren immediately after pool. You can choose to plant it right at his wall so protoss can't sim city properly. Reinforce with lings from main, roaches from proxy.

You could also hide the proxy hatch in the main, but toss will just sac the main and transfer all probes to natural. You can then proceed to bling bust his natural's mineral line while roaches attack from his main. This will work better if it's an open natural like meta and xel'nega.


Venomous Drone
Profile Joined January 2011
48 Posts
April 26 2011 13:39 GMT
#9
Those are variations of builds already in the compendium
Ainvar
Profile Joined January 2011
United States68 Posts
August 04 2011 18:15 GMT
#10
How about the Losira hydra/ling/nydus vs FFE into stargate?

Speedling expand with 2nd queen asap after first
Put drones back on gas when 2nd queen pops
All drones to 36/36
Start lair and 3 ols and grab 2nd gas and third queen
Keep droning, grabbing 3rd and 4th gas around 45-50 food
At lair finish hydra den
Once you hit 2-base saturation make all hydras and lings (keep gas for next step available)
At hydra den finish hydra range and nydus
Plant a nydus outside his natural and send queen through as well to lay down creep
Keep this nydus alive
Expand behind this attack
Optionally nydus in base as well
fuzzytoad
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada57 Posts
August 04 2011 18:42 GMT
#11
Hmm I'm surprised this thread only got a few posts. I for one haven't even seen it yet.

Every competent player should have at least a few cheeses up his sleeve. This is a great resource for zergs. Hopefully we can add to this list a few more recent cheeses like the above.
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
August 04 2011 18:59 GMT
#12
Hmm, I think it's because zerg relies less on strict build orders, so that when the opportunity or need for an all-in arises, it's executed much more spontaneously. Still, I think build orders as general outlines are good, while the early game cheese are probably the most useful.
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
ZasZ.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States2911 Posts
August 04 2011 19:06 GMT
#13
Great thread, everybody should have a few cheeses handy for specific situations.

Whenever I get close positions ZvP I almost always 3 Roach Speedling all-in.
Ainvar
Profile Joined January 2011
United States68 Posts
August 04 2011 20:12 GMT
#14
I think it's really important to have good relative timings as Zerg when you decide to go all-in. For example, in the hydra ling nydus build above to me the most interesting thing is that you start 2nd gas with lair start and 3rd and 4th with lair finish, and that you can lay down the nydus network as you start grooved spines and it all times out right for constant hydra/ling/nydus production off two hatch with two queens.
If that happens at this food vs. that food is less critial I think.
letmegopls
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
105 Posts
August 04 2011 20:15 GMT
#15
wow, you make it look like z really has more than 3 working cheeses
Chinesewonder
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada354 Posts
August 04 2011 20:27 GMT
#16
Subbed. thanks alot
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12486 Posts
August 04 2011 23:10 GMT
#17
thanks
I have been hoping Zerg to find some more cheesy builds because of all the all-in I have faced.
I still can't accept the fact that terran can do so much with scv marine all in while not having too much setbacks.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
August 05 2011 15:31 GMT
#18
You are missing one of the best cheeses vs terran. The hatch first queenless baneling bust without speed. I do it a lot, stolen from losira, and it's very good vs early cc and gas builds.
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
Lobotomist
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1541 Posts
August 05 2011 18:09 GMT
#19
On August 06 2011 00:31 kushm4sta wrote:
You are missing one of the best cheeses vs terran. The hatch first queenless baneling bust without speed. I do it a lot, stolen from losira, and it's very good vs early cc and gas builds.
Woah this sounds sick! Could you give a little outline of it. Or a VOD link?
Teching to hive too quickly isn't just a risk: it's an ultrarisk
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
August 05 2011 18:46 GMT
#20
On August 06 2011 03:09 Lobotomist wrote:
Woah this sounds sick! Could you give a little outline of it. Or a VOD link?

Last GSL code S spoiler...
+ Show Spoiler +
GSL final game losira vs Byun is the vod

Here is the BO:
14 hatch
16 gas
16 pool
17 ol
baneling nest asap
all your larva after that spend on lings and when your baneling nest is done spend all your gas on a shit ton of banes
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
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