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[G] Zergs Hydra/Ling vP FE Build

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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ClanRH.TV
Profile Joined July 2010
United States462 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-05 19:53:28
March 05 2011 07:06 GMT
#1
Hello my name is Zerg. As you may expect I am a Zerg player currently just getting back into Starcraft 2 after a month off of getting my college work in line. For the past few weeks I've been developing a build which I've repeatedly considered posting here on the TL forums for the Zerg community to exploit. The only reason I resisted was that it always turns out that any build that is put on here and ultimately popularized ends up becoming too popular and is inevitably routinely planned for and hard countered in a matter of no time by all of the races affected. However, I've become more lenient considering my fellow swarm are under a lot of pressure from Aiur therefore I would like to present to you Zerg's Hydra/ling vs Protoss FE 10 minute timing push.

Before I get bashed with people telling me that hydras and lings have been being used forever, I urge you to consider the way I do things (by looking at all the replays---or some) and then comment on the post. I guarantee you that you will be amazed or frightened (whether you are Zerg or Protoss ). Anywho the theory behind the Build came when I noticed 3 main FE builds coming from the protoss...either the 3-gate sentry expand, 2 gate stargate expand or the 15 nexus expand (sometimes these include a forge or not). All of these resist the common zerg pressure of roach/ling/baneling or any combo of those via cannon/sentry/force field/voidray usage. These all in someway prevent the zerg from getting in range and actually harming the protoss......That was the basis for the build and I could go into much more of the technicals except I don't want a TL;DR from everyone so I proudly bring to you Zergs Hydraling 10 min push:


+ Show Spoiler +

14 Extractor
14 Pool
---get ling speed with first 100 gas immediately
15 overlord
16 Queen
---get 4 lings and destroy scout/clear natural for expo
---scout for Protoss FE
~20-22 Expand to Natural
---with second 100 gas get Lair IMMEDIATELY
---when lair starts immediately put down 2nd gas and put 3 drones on it when finished
---when your 2nd hatchery finishes transfer half your drones to it from your main
---drone up your 2 bases to about 31-35 drones total
From here on the build is extremely flexible, but you have to make sure you do a few KEY things:
---get hydra den right when lair finishes and get +1 TO HYDRA RANGE (**important**)
---try to keep scouts out as best you can
---you want to pump out about 14-15 hydras and 20-30 lings



At ~10:10 game time, you should start pushing out across the map for the enemies
(Rarely however, the attack time does change-> see replays and comments)

Edit: I've been asked to discuss the tactics when you reach the enemy...First off, you must realize you have hydras with 6 range...That is the range of any protoss unit so FF wont be much of a problem...But what you want to try to do is get your lings in without them being FF'ed away and use your hydras to target the zealots first, then the sentries/stalkers and pylons. In some circumstances, the protoss can have a single colossus out. Fortunately, they will not be able to get range in time so it won't be a problem. But of course, if there is one you must focus fire it down and proceed as usual. Then the pylons powering the warp gates and your golden from there!!!

THIS TIMING IS CRUCIAL....this is the point where the protoss will be the most vulnerable. I guarantee to you this fact has been worked out..

So in summary:
1.) Build Hydra/Ling
2.) Move Out at 10:10
3.) ?????????
4.) Profit!

I swear to you give this a try on a FE protoss ( even works well on non-FE protoss....seriously). It works very well. I will attach a bunch replays of just a few of the times I've performed this build.....its worked on high diamond to very good masters players. If you want more replays and proof of this PM me or friend me on bnet at Zerg.600 If you have a specific request for a replay of this build performing against a certain strategy that is not already in the replays, post in the thread and I bet I can find one.

Replays:
+ Show Spoiler +

1.) Zerg(Diamond) vs FruitJuice(Diamond). He goes 3 gate sentry forge expand and builds a stargate. Pumps out pheonixes and gets his +1 attack for ground units. This is a textbook example of the way the build should be done in this circumstance:

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/146491-1v1-protoss-zerg-backwater-gulch

2.) Zerg vs Keo (Masters League). He goes 3 gate sentry forge fast expand and also gets +1 attack. He however transitions into robotics bay instead of Stargate. At ~9 minutes he does a characteristic Sentry/Zealot and a few stalker attack. To answer a asked below it seems like this is a good example to the ability of this build to hold a sentry/zealot attack at around 7-8 minutes as well:

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/146701-1v1-protoss-zerg-gutterhulk

3.) Zerg vs Fish (Diamond 200 games with 65% win rate=good). I posted this build because it is an excellent example of how easy it is to transition out of this build and attests to the fact that it is by no means all in. He goes 2 gate into stargate/voidray expand. Gets 2 voids and 1 pheonix and moves to 3 gate/stargate/forge. My hydra/ling build does as it is suppose to and the transition into the mid-game is smooth as I am placed far in the lead:

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/146616-1v1-protoss-zerg-gutterhulk

4.) Zerg vs Zero (Rank 4 3100 Diamond). He does 3 gate sentry expand into starport. In this instance I believed that he was hiding a four gate and as you can see I proceeded to prepare some defense (this was done very easily because of the flexibility and the lack of commitment to the build needed ). Soon I notice I was wrong and convert back my build where I proceed to carry it out at a slightly later time. He had gone stargate after the expo and at seeing my hydras with an observer attempted to switch to Collosus...he failed:

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/146492-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns

5.) Zerg vs ChiCaNery (Masters League). I was in a tournament for Z33K.com and I played two games against him. Unfortunately, the first game on Slag Pits creates an error when I try to upload it on sc2replayed therefore I only have the 2nd of the best of 3. The 1st game he went 3-gate into stargate and got 5-6 pheonixes which were unable to hurt me (hydras). He expanded and tech'd to collosus and when my push hit at around 10:30 his mainly gateway army with 6 pheonixes and a collosus was unable to hold. This is game two where I demonstrate the versatility of the build in that it is not only easily transitioned out of (as in Zerg vs Fish) but when you do early game damage to a protoss, this build is a highly reliable path to transition into and almost guarantee's you a win:

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/146488-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns

6.) Zerg vs PlayerOne (3k+ rank one diamond). He went 2 gate stargate and got 1 voidray to expand. He harasses and transitions into 2 more gates (4 gates) and a robo. Key in this is that I went for the attack at around 10:10 and I plainly didn't like what I saw. I didn't like the probability that I would win that fight...So I pulled back and returned 1 minute, 8 hydras and 10 lings later and his gateway, voidray and single collosus couldn't hold:

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/146489-1v1-protoss-zerg-gutterhulk

7.) Zerg vs Atlas (Diamond 3000 rank 15). He goes 3 gate sentry forge FE.......again......I thought he was 4-gating for a bit so I layed some defense and eventually realized he wasn't. Thus I moved out slightly later (as the 4 spine crawlers set me behind) and still mowed down his gate/collosus army, of course, by focusing the collosus first (which wont have thermal lance):

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/146487-1v1-protoss-zerg-metalopolis

8.) Zerg vs Ahkko (3k rank 8 diamond). Another textbook execution of my build where the protoss techs to collosus by the time I get there. Focus fire collosus=win:

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/146490-1v1-protoss-zerg-gutterhulk

9.) Zerg vs DesuBear(New Diamond with 150 games at 67% win). People have criticized this player and said hes bad when in fact he is quite a skilled player that was vastly mistaken. He goes 2 gate robo teching to immortals b/c he thinks that I'm going roach (like ever zerg). He gets collosus when he notices and has thrown down an expo when I hit....focus collosus and I'm home free:

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/146493-1v1-protoss-zerg-scrap-station

10.) FINALLY LAST BUT CERTAINLY NOT LEAST is Zerg vs Spiralface (3k+ rank 6 diamond). What is unique about this game is it is THE ONLY GAME I HAVE LOST TO PROTOSS SINCE I"VE DEVELOPED THIS BUILD.......probably the 1 out the 13 to 14 times. I will say this honestly and you can judge for yourself but I shouldn't have lost this game if I just did what I've been doing. However, I made the fatal error to, instead of sit back and get more units after his attack, engage immediately and forget about the 1000 minerals and 400 gas in my bank. We exchange armies and two base each other at which point I don't expand and my macro slips......bad game on my part but indeed my one and only loss:

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/146617-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns



Honestly, I've used this build about 15 times and I've only lost 1 game for mistakes on my part. There are minor adjustments and changes and possibly different moves in each replay but the concept remains largely the same and identical in most. The changes were only minor, sensible changes to account for my enemies actions. Give it a try...leave your comments....Goodluck and Good Day!!!!!!
"Don't take life too seriously because you'll never get out alive."
MowerRH
Profile Joined October 2010
United States25 Posts
March 05 2011 07:10 GMT
#2
sounds epic
village_idiot
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
2436 Posts
March 05 2011 07:19 GMT
#3
If you can attack the Protoss before he has his colossus out then this is a great strat.

However, if P gets colossus out you're going to need both Roach and Corruptor. If you use this strat, you're not going to have Roach Warren or Spire so things are gonna get difficult.
Let it Raine
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1245 Posts
March 05 2011 07:19 GMT
#4
I used to do a hydra ling build vs toss, it beat a lot of tosses. Some known.

I never had a specific timing though, just move out once +1 attack and +1 range finished, then rally in lings.
Grandmaster Zerg x14. Diamond 1 LoL. MLG 50, Halo 3. Raine.
ClanRH.TV
Profile Joined July 2010
United States462 Posts
March 05 2011 07:21 GMT
#5
@Village Idiot: At this time the protoss can have a max of 1 collosus out and they WILL NOT have range. I've included some replays inside where the protoss does just that. This build absolutely stomps that as well. You just have to make sure to focus fire the collosus with you lings and closer hydras and you will bring it down in no time.
"Don't take life too seriously because you'll never get out alive."
ClanRH.TV
Profile Joined July 2010
United States462 Posts
March 05 2011 07:23 GMT
#6
@ Let it Raine: Getting 1/1 I have tried, but as it turns out the delay and usage of gas actually puts you in a worse postion in terms of timing. Give this a try and you will see it is much more effective then the 1/1 timing attack. At the 14 mins that that attack comes at the protoss will have 2-3 collosus because he will have certainly scouted and prepared for you with extended thermal lance. Give it a try and get back to me
"Don't take life too seriously because you'll never get out alive."
TheDominator
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
New Zealand336 Posts
March 05 2011 07:43 GMT
#7
Holy crap this looks epic. I have to try this out. Kinda sick of always using roaches.
14-1 is extremely good, assuming the opponents were same skill level.
This strat looks extremely strong. Thanks for sharing.
You can go a long way with a smile. You can go a lot farther with a smile and a gun.
aliciakeyzz
Profile Joined February 2011
United States26 Posts
March 05 2011 07:52 GMT
#8
I think this push would be stronger and not as all in if you get roaches instead of hydras. Roaches dont do that less dps.
no one no one no oooooone can get in the way of what i feel for you
ClanRH.TV
Profile Joined July 2010
United States462 Posts
March 05 2011 07:53 GMT
#9
In fact, according to rank, the opponents were a much higher skill level than I. I had an easier time taking out high master than low master or high diamond. If you've ever heard Tastosis talking about how certain builds only work against "smart" players who overthink situations and are tricked by the look of builds, this is what their talking about.
"Don't take life too seriously because you'll never get out alive."
ClanRH.TV
Profile Joined July 2010
United States462 Posts
March 05 2011 08:56 GMT
#10
@aliciakeys: Sorry to keep posting on this but I like to answer to people objections...makes for constructive conversation. But, contrary to what you believe, hydras in fact do have higher DPS than roaches. Even if they didn't, the point of using hydras over roaches is not only because they deal higher damage, but they also have 6 range when upgraded thus negate the effects of Force fields which are a common defense by protoss. Also, hydras counter void rays which are another common units protoss uses when Fast expanding. Additionally, the build is not all in as you may think. If the attack for some reason fails, you will have at least destroyed their entire army as well as taken out part or all of their expansion.
"Don't take life too seriously because you'll never get out alive."
Friday_ger
Profile Joined January 2011
67 Posts
March 05 2011 09:11 GMT
#11
I'd say u have to Spread creep towards Ur Opponent to make it work.
But Thats no problem.
Nice ill give it a try.
apalemorning
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada509 Posts
March 05 2011 09:26 GMT
#12
honestly, this isn't exactly a revolutionary idea. breaking a toss expand at certain timings has always been somewhat easy. i'll try it in a few practice games. thanks dood.
immortal/roach is pretty good against stalkers
clamtrox
Profile Joined March 2011
7 Posts
March 05 2011 10:47 GMT
#13
If this build does so well against good players, why did you upload these demos then? I don't mean to be rude but seems like you're beating people who are just playing much worse than you are, and most of them you could have easily broken by rushing with basically any unit combination.
ClanRH.TV
Profile Joined July 2010
United States462 Posts
March 05 2011 11:09 GMT
#14
I don't take anything as being rude and I see where your objections may be coming from but I must point out....sentries and void-rays are a common application in conjunction with a protoss fast expand. Rushing with any unit combination may have worked in a select few of the situations but if you factor in all the possible situations including use of voidrays, well placed forcefields, pheonixes and collosus, hydras are certainly the optimal unit and by far the most effective to attack with during this timing.
When it comes down the playing players worse than I, I can tell you that I am only a 3k diamond player just returned from a break. Honestly, I will tell you that many of those players were much better than I in terms of skill and if I had played a normal macro game against them I certainly would have had alot more trouble, if not lost entirely. This build is a solid zerg timing attack in my honest opinion that takes advantage of the current strategies and mindset being used against zerg.
"Don't take life too seriously because you'll never get out alive."
DImported
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia149 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-05 11:45:10
March 05 2011 11:42 GMT
#15
How does this deal with a protoss zealot/sentry push at 7-8 minutes (assuming they made 6-7 sentries) or with a closed entrance that is heavily cannoned?
DImported
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia149 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-05 11:44:56
March 05 2011 11:44 GMT
#16
oops double post
VashTS
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1675 Posts
March 05 2011 12:47 GMT
#17
I can't really tell if you're being completely serious or not. The logic behind the idea sounds really good, but some of the replays aren't supporting the idea of the thread.

1 is against a horrible player
1 is going off of your own build/strategy (Banes and mass Roach)
1 is a PvT
1 is a TvT

But yea, at least in the first few replays you show what you are talking about. You get there in time before the Thermal Lance is done and they have 1 Colossus, and you win fairly decisively. I'm not completely convinced, however.
VashTS; 330; Random -- Ranked #9 Pokemon Video Game Player in the World in 2009
ClanRH.TV
Profile Joined July 2010
United States462 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-05 13:25:06
March 05 2011 13:17 GMT
#18
@DImported: The protoss zealot/sentry push that comes with a 3 gate FE really isn't that strong and from my experience isn't meant to win the game rather than to force the zerg into making units instead of droning up....depending on how early it comes you should have enough lings..possibly a few hydras to stop it. In this case I would generally make a few more hydras (say 5-6 on top of the 4 you should have) and push out quickly with about 10 hydras and 20 lings as early as you possible can(even before the 10:10min mark). This way they shouldn't have enough time to adjust to the strategy.

@VashTS I'm so glad you told me this so that I can fix that.....Obviously I uploaded a few of the wrong replays. On the other hand, I just selected a bunch of the times I did the build and posted those replays rather than sifting through them to find the best players and the best times where I did the build perfectly. Honestly, right now I will fix these and throw up replays from players that are better than the one that concerns you. If you could PM me the one with the "horrible" player I will replace it with a much better one. On the other hand, I purposely threw a few replays in where I go off track to display the flexibility and "uncommittedness?!?!" of its structure (thats not a word but I think you know what I mean.)

Btw, this is not a sarcastic post by any means and I am truly serious about the lethality of this build when done correctly
"Don't take life too seriously because you'll never get out alive."
NeonFox
Profile Joined January 2011
2373 Posts
March 05 2011 13:33 GMT
#19
I do a build like this ZvP on scrap station, same as you but I ad an evo chamber when I start lair and get +1 range attack, finishes in time for the push and hydras scale very well with upgrades.
I start breaking the rocks with my first few lings and get a creep highway between the rocks with the 2 first tumors.
Since most toss FE or go air on this map it's very effective, I lost very few games using this.
HanziZGodly
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4 Posts
March 05 2011 13:34 GMT
#20
I tried this build and it Improved my ZvP tremendously! thanks!
Lord, what fools these mortals be
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