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Scenario: It's 20 minutes into the game, I'm on 3 base, we're macroing, it's fine. I know he has tons of lings and banes. All the Z does is throw banes at me and lings and I'm forced to waste forcefields constantly since once you're more than 10 minutes into the game it's really easy to recreate lings and banes.
It really sucks because I can't use air either to counter it since there are so many little ground units.
I hate building tier 3 and getting raped by tier 1. I'm ex 3500 masters so I'm not too terrible, but still.
And Z wonders why P 4gates. Hate dealing with this shit. Also, FUCK INFESTORS. How do you counter Z if they have 8/9 infestors? I'm honestly thinking of switching to Z because this is so ridiculously easy. Fungal -> banes, or fungle * 1000 + infested terrans. Or, burrow infestors and infested terrans in all your bases.
So, how do you high level P's handle this. I'm not looking for "harass him to keep him on his feet so he can't attack and forced to tech". I'm looking for help so when the direct encounter happens. I'm pondering just honestly going mass zealots and letting them die, not even teching.
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Replay? but whenever i use that strat as zerg believe it or not Archon/Senty/zealots give me trouble sounds weird but it just does
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If he gets Ultra Ling Baneling Infestor
All you can do is go for carrier/ht/immortal or so
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why are you forced to waste forcefields?you guard your own army and let your ranged units pick them off and protoss has the best abilities to pick those units off (storm, colossi, archon)
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I feel your pain aswell, haven't been able to beat good zergs in a while :D. I think the answer lies in high templar though, storm is good against lings/banes and mutas and you can also feedback infestors.
So something like blink stalker/high templar/archons should be good.
Forcefields are good but hard to use in the big areas.
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On April 13 2011 01:09 CASLsoju wrote:
So, how do you high level P's handle this. I'm not looking for "harass him to keep him on his feet so he can't attack and forced to tech". I'm looking for help so when the direct encounter happens. I'm pondering just honestly going mass zealots and letting them die, not even teching.
Honestly, it looks like, you are just looking to QQ
Otherwise there would be at least a replay.
Against lings/bannelings, there are often a timing window for the protoss to attack, but if you don't even want to hear about it, why do you post ?
There is no replay, but if I look at the info you gave, you go for a tier 3 unit, without air, and you don't even want to hear about putting pressure on the zerg.
I bet that you just blindly turtle to get a big colossus ball without air. And guess what, the bannelings strategy is specificaly made to defeat players like that.
Most of the other tech paths are better against bannelings (DT into archons, blink, HT into archon, any air units, etc.).
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HTs are really good. You can use feedback on infestors as well as storm.
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You have to be the aggressor in zvp. You're letting him get too much of a lead and basically the Z could choose any unit and beat you with it. If you scout no roach warren with hallucination, then it's your fault for not pressuring him before he gets bane speed or overlord drops, so stfu about the whining and post some replays.
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I´m at a loss how to beat this as well.
On the more open maps like shattered temple and the new shakuras it is really hard, practically impossible to use sentries against the ling-bling and drop style. Since that style is also very gas light I find that robo tech is near useless against it, immortals are weak against ling,bling and colossi are too easily countered by corruptors. Normally it is not that bad if they kill your colossi with corruptors as stalker/sentry does quite fine on it's own against roach/hydra when they overcommited to corruptor but that is not the case with stalker/sentry. Lings absolutely murder stalkers and it doesn't really matter if they overproduced corruptors that much.
The new infestors and quick teching to ultra's only make this strat even more hard to kill with traditional deathballs as there is a very short window before your forcefields are nullified.
The only proper way to fight it except a good timing push seems to be zealot, HT with some air units. For this reason I like opening air and early forge at some point on bigger maps, it preemptively counters their air and transitioning to zealot, HT works alright. Roach switches can be annoying to deal with but if zealots are ahead in upgrades they can deal with roaches fairly well and otherwise you have to add immortals very quickly.
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firstly, replays plz.
iNcontroL discussed this on his stream the other day. the best thing about ling/bane for zergs is the mobility, and the ease they can get up their third and fourth bases. you can't be aggressive against it because a good player will counter and you will die, so you have to play the most boring protoss there is. constantly building walls, sealing cracks in your bases, betting up a third and fourth, without being shy on cannons. once you get your 3rd and fourth bases running you should have no problem beating ling/bane/infestor with a fairly standard late game army of colossi/vr/stalker/sentry. keep in mind colossi out range fungal and neural, so if you're careful about moving your army around they shouldn't be a huge issue.
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Youre protoss. Youre op. You can do it.
Ask what we should do against deathball instead?
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 13 2011 02:29 BoxedLunch wrote:
firstly, replays plz.
iNcontroL discussed this on his stream the other day. the best thing about ling/bane for zergs is the mobility, and the ease they can get up their third and fourth bases. you can't be aggressive against it because a good player will counter and you will die, so you have to play the most boring protoss there is. constantly building walls, sealing cracks in your bases, betting up a third and fourth, without being shy on cannons. once you get your 3rd and fourth bases running you should have no problem beating ling/bane/infestor with a fairly standard late game army of colossi/vr/stalker/sentry. keep in mind colossi out range fungal and neural, so if you're careful about moving your army around they shouldn't be a huge issue.
On a side note you probably want to veto any maps where your third is going to be difficult to get (like backwater gulch or scrap station) because without having at least a third, you're probably going to lose against that build. Also, make sure you look for ultralisk tech because then you'll need to switch all your forcefield energy into hallucination to tank all of the melee zerg units. Making a lot of reserve gateways can also help replenishing your army and get your +3 weapons fast.
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On April 13 2011 01:11 Moonling wrote:
Replay? but whenever i use that strat as zerg believe it or not Archon/Senty/zealots give me trouble sounds weird but it just does
Archons are pretty awesome against most zerg units. I actually prefer making them to colossi.
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Actually just a standard collossi death ball beats this if you have blink. Also good scouting to prevent runbys and such. You can't stack your units in a ball is the main thing here. You must use blink to spread your units out. If he transitions to ultras you should have templar, immortal, zealot ready to combat it. The key is scouting, get hallucination and keep phoenixes patrolling your chokes in order to know attacks are coming so you can prepare.
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I'm not sure why people do not include replays when they sketch such a specific scenario as you did in their opening post. I can get into the mindset of not posting a replay when asking help against something very general that everyone can envision without too much problems (i.e. something about 6pool, as it is very straightforward), but I feel like this topic really requires a replay as I (and probably more people) are unable to give you good advice judging by the scenario in your OP alone.
With the limited info I have I would suggest going DT into Archons; as he is most likely to have multiple bases due to his low tier (= very effective DTs), and Archons do very well against ling/bane.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
I find this style pretty ridiculous good, its almost imposible to win once Z have a huge lead in bases
he can just keep making Ling/Bling/Corruptor/infestors for ever in the game
What im trying to do vs this style is the 4Gate Archon build that P used in BW
but in SC2 u have to do it differently, Archon with +2 do 43 damage to all bio unit
and Zealot with +2weapon 1+armo 1+shield are good vs lingz in lategame,
But we still have the problem with the blings, Archon + zealot are melee unit.
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On April 13 2011 01:09 CASLsoju wrote:
Scenario: It's 20 minutes into the game, I'm on 3 base, we're macroing, it's fine. I know he has tons of lings and banes.
And Z wonders why P 4gates. Hate dealing with this shit. Also, FUCK INFESTORS. How do you counter Z if they have 8/9 infestors?
Have you heard of the templar with feedback and storm? It's the answer to both. It melts ling bane, and it ruins infestor play. The answer to your question is templars, and micro, with good vision, so several observers and forward pylons.
Forcefields are great vs roach hydra play, but really - storms, with drops, is awesome against this kind of style.
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Having the right Unit/Ability usage in fights will help you a lot when fighting Ling/bane. The four major players in the toss arsenal that deal with ling/bane would be .... HT, Colossi, Archon, and Sentry for FF. Immortals can be great dmg soaks for banes but kinda crumble to lings, making the Archon the better tank choice. Simply the power of using two of the four units that counter ling/bane can be enough to win engagements.
FF+ storm
FF+ colossi
FF+ Archons
FF is the crutch of course, but unit positioning and micro still play a big roll in how ling/bane engagements play out. Now if you post a replay where zerg catches you in the wide open and your FF are sub par, then I wouldn't expect winning many of those games 
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I was having problems with the same thing and I asked a friend of mine who is top tier serf what to do. he said they they are going straight up banes and lings then you need to have good forcefield control. if they are attempting to drop over your forcefields then you should go for the good old mass blink stalkers + colossus and micro back to weaken zerg forces.
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Please read the Strategy Forum Guidelines before you make your next post. Nobody's going to invest time in helping you if it looks (and it does) like you played a single game against a zerg who did this and got frustrated, and immediately came to TL to write a post in 2 mins.
No replay? You cover two completely different things, and then put ZERO thought forward. I won't mouth feed a response.
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On April 13 2011 01:09 CASLsoju wrote:
Scenario: It's 20 minutes into the game, I'm on 3 base, we're macroing, it's fine. I know he has tons of lings and banes. All the Z does is throw banes at me and lings and I'm forced to waste forcefields constantly since once you're more than 10 minutes into the game it's really easy to recreate lings and banes.
It really sucks because I can't use air either to counter it since there are so many little ground units.
I hate building tier 3 and getting raped by tier 1. I'm ex 3500 masters so I'm not too terrible, but still.
And Z wonders why P 4gates. Hate dealing with this shit. Also, FUCK INFESTORS. How do you counter Z if they have 8/9 infestors? I'm honestly thinking of switching to Z because this is so ridiculously easy. Fungal -> banes, or fungle * 1000 + infested terrans. Or, burrow infestors and infested terrans in all your bases.
So, how do you high level P's handle this. I'm not looking for "harass him to keep him on his feet so he can't attack and forced to tech". I'm looking for help so when the direct encounter happens. I'm pondering just honestly going mass zealots and letting them die, not even teching.
Like others have said a replay is needed. FF of course are good for saving your base/cannons. You should consider other tech options to force him to spend his gas and money elsewhere. I like to eventually get a stargate and get phoenix ,great map control and good harass before infestors, not to mention he will have to morph the banes by your base (or walk them across with phoenix out lolz) and they will be easily picked off with mass phoenix if you want. Another option is getting a robo and some immortals, banes are freakin terrible vs immortals, so once you have a few with your mass gateway force you can just push across the map (try and lead with the immortals and take the banes with them), force a tech switch.
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http://drop.sc/5357
This guy was throwing a lot of stuff at me. The trick is to capture a lot within the force fields, so you're not simply just trading force fields for nothing. I also had a good followup.
Another game I had with some dude where he went for very heavy ling/baneling into ultralisks. He lost pretty hard as well. Start watching at 24 minutes: http://www.justin.tv/kiwiclonearmy/b/283427723
The idea I had in the replay is to get a really good amount of Sentry. Since I can't really run out into the map without fear of dieing, I had to harass him in some other way. I can go for DT, well microed blink stalker, warp prisms, Stargate tech. All of those could have worked.
In the second game I wanted a direct approach. I wanted to just get templar and them storm the shit out of everything. Although, if you have templar you're going to need some beefy immortals so that roaches or ultralisks to rofl all over you. I also incorporated Voidrays late game because Immortal Voidray and Templar is super strong, and when I say super I mean super. This guy was prepared for me to 1a onto his side of the map when I felt comfortable, so I decided to attack him in like 3-4 different places all at once.
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Aiming to get the "usual" colossus gateway army is playing into zerg's hands if he's using this strategy. You should be passive until you get storm and archons, both of which are incredibly cost effective against ling/baneling.
Also, I found this style to be quite vulnerable to dt openings as it's very easy to make him waste gas on overseers and do a blinkstalker + archon timing push.
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United States22883 Posts
Locking this until you read the strategy forum guidelines, and actually follow them. PM me with your Edit when you want it reopened.
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EPT
