EPT[G] 9 pool opening ZvP. Zergling/baneling/Infest - Page 8
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Marzuki
United States30 Posts
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TheFinalWord
Australia790 Posts
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Brutus
Netherlands284 Posts
On April 14 2011 00:34 aXa wrote: I'm trying to find a new way to play ZvT, but for now i'm really stucked When it comes to opening, 9 pool doesn't work as the wall is finished before the ling comes. I don't think anything but hatch first is good in ZvT. The zergling/bling/infestor/ultra compo works against meching and tank marine, but you give up on air control and you have to make a TON of spinecrawler to prevent drop. And hellion will roast zergling to some point. So don't know what yo do yet :/ It's because 9-pool is a weak cheesy build. Not surprised you don't seem to be able to play a standard game. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On April 14 2011 01:15 Brutus wrote: It's because 9-pool is a weak cheesy build. Not surprised you don't seem to be able to play a standard game. I wouldn't say that. It puts early game power into Zerg's hand where Terrans and Protoss simply expect a fast hatch. I think it's a good idea for them to mix it up | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
On April 14 2011 01:15 Brutus wrote: It's because 9-pool is a weak cheesy build. Not surprised you don't seem to be able to play a standard game. How do we warn moderator on this forum btw? | ||
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Cycle
United States300 Posts
 Just showing my appreciation for people who are working on aggressive zerg play. :D | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
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Brutus
Netherlands284 Posts
On April 14 2011 01:17 tehemperorer wrote: I wouldn't say that. It puts early game power into Zerg's hand where Terrans and Protoss simply expect a fast hatch. I think it's a good idea for them to mix it up Why mix it up in ladder? I can understand that in a boX but on ladder it's just trying to catch your opponent off guard in stead of fundamental macro play. Why? I don't see why I need to be warned. Post a replay of you vs Terran and I am sure your problem is macro. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
I don't get why you go for a cheesy 9pool followed by 30(!) lings. If you make that many lings so early you will be ridiculously far behind in economy. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
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KangaRuthless
United States304 Posts
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On April 14 2011 02:08 tehemperorer wrote: I think a lot of P and T players are not able to distinguish the differences between a 6 pool and a 9 pool/10 pool, so that something like this makes them believe, erroneously, that they are ahead or behind or whatever. Since it isn't that common, when I see a completed pool but no lings, it is hard to judge at what point in the game I am at as a Protoss player, and I could play the next 5 minutes thinking I'm ahead when I'm really not. HhahaA yeah there's this guy he was SO MAD he was like $#@$#@ 6 pooler and I was lik lul | ||
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
On April 14 2011 02:08 tehemperorer wrote: I think a lot of P and T players are not able to distinguish the differences between a 6 pool and a 9 pool/10 pool, so that something like this makes them believe, erroneously, that they are ahead or behind or whatever. Since it isn't that common, when I see a completed pool but no lings, it is hard to judge at what point in the game I am at as a Protoss player, and I could play the next 5 minutes thinking I'm ahead when I'm really not. I think this is totally true, which is what makes this even tougher to deal with. My immediate reaction is to put a forge even though i might be able to get away with a standard cyber- zealot opening (which isn't always true.) So I guess you gotta count the drones if you see a completed pool. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
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chipman
United States139 Posts
Not sure why more zergs aren't more proactive with their quick units which punish mistakes like lings and drops. If my pvp wasn't so good I'd consider switching to zerg to beat protoss, because I really don't believe that protoss is all that hard to beat as a competent, open minded and level headed zerg. Even if you're going to just go for a big burrow+claws roach timing around 12:30 that's one point in the game where you have a large food advantage and a time before more than 1 non range colossus will be up, you can simply keep engaging to take out the gas units like sentry and colossus with proper micro, and add hydras/lings if they make immortals instead of colossus. I feel it's a lot easier for zerg to beat protoss than they're making it out to be. If you're worried about some late game mass voidray/colossus stalker sentry push and you don't think you can do anything to beat it (which you can), then just kill them or start pressuring and trading armies or dealing economic damage before and during that time.... There's a certain point in a game if you let protoss get enough bases and production that when you engage at even food armies he's just going to crush you, but he protoss also has fears of how he can lose to zerg if he doesn't work around moments of weakness and make adjustments to his plan from what he sees from the zerg. | ||
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Skrag
United States643 Posts
On April 14 2011 17:34 AndAgain wrote: I think this is totally true, which is what makes this even tougher to deal with. My immediate reaction is to put a forge even though i might be able to get away with a standard cyber- zealot opening (which isn't always true.) So I guess you gotta count the drones if you see a completed pool. You simply do not have to put a forge down to hold off early pools. Not even a 6pool. The sooner you practice holding a 6pool using your standard opening, the sooner you can stop worrying about silly shit like doing the wrong thing against early pools. Against a 6 pool, dropping a forge is *okay*. It's not necessary, but you will win unless you screw up extremely badly. Against any other early pool 7+, dropping the forge can give the zerg the leg up that he needs to pull ahead economically if he decides to do so, and if you're not very good at keeping tabs on what he's doing after the first 6 lings, you can very easily lose the game. | ||
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aXa
France748 Posts
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
On April 15 2011 01:05 Skrag wrote: You simply do not have to put a forge down to hold off early pools. Not even a 6pool. The sooner you practice holding a 6pool using your standard opening, the sooner you can stop worrying about silly shit like doing the wrong thing against early pools. Against a 6 pool, dropping a forge is *okay*. It's not necessary, but you will win unless you screw up extremely badly. Against any other early pool 7+, dropping the forge can give the zerg the leg up that he needs to pull ahead economically if he decides to do so, and if you're not very good at keeping tabs on what he's doing after the first 6 lings, you can very easily lose the game. Oh really? Some guy recently started a thread saying how he regularly beats top 200 players by doing nothing but 6 pools, and has a really high success rate against protoss. Making a forge, he says, is the only possible way to stop it. | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
On April 14 2011 22:59 chipman wrote: I feel it's a lot easier for zerg to beat protoss than they're making it out to be. If you're worried about some late game mass voidray/colossus stalker sentry push and you don't think you can do anything to beat it (which you can), then just kill them or start pressuring and trading armies or dealing economic damage before and during that time.... There's a certain point in a game if you let protoss get enough bases and production that when you engage at even food armies he's just going to crush you, but he protoss also has fears of how he can lose to zerg if he doesn't work around moments of weakness and make adjustments to his plan from what he sees from the zerg. No, it's not easier than zerg is making it out to be. Do you realize that because of FF, what your suggesting requires a big investment from zerg? You want to pressure toss, attack his economy, trade armies or be aggressive at all, he either has to fail at FF and walling off or you have to invest in nydus, drops, or mutas. "just go kill him" is rarely an option in ZvP. | ||
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