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On April 05 2011 07:33 EmilA wrote:
Have you guys even seen the replays? I watched the first two and my initial reaction was much like Slush's (scout fusion core ---> "... ....") This is the most loco 1 base play I have seen so far. Though I must say both games were sooo close to failing, although I'm pretty impressed how you managed to pull ahead in G2 without the hellion marine drop doing any damage at all.
As for the build it's obviously new, cool and creative and will work against a lot of players. It seemed like both Zergs went roaches pre-emptively though (new trend to counter the usual hellion play?) which delayed lair and ultimately their corruptors. Though the use of the viking was just genius.. Man I'll give this a shot in some practice games tomorrow and try it on ladder if I don't fail miserably.
And to whoever said an early marine hellion drop isn't powerful.. just lol (though I do it with two medvacs, am I stupid?)
ya someone agrees with me, i'll post more replays when i get a chance.. i have to many tvz replays and i don't know which one is bc rush =/
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A Top 200 Terran posts an interesting strategy, and the low masters rabble descends with much teeth-gnashing.
Thanks for posting, Huy. Looks very compelling.
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Pride, I like the idea behind your strategy, but what are your thoughts on the premise of rushing BCs to elicit some response (say corruptors) and then swapping to something on the ground, utilizing the corruptor investment a complete waste of minerals/gas/supply? I know in one of my TvZs recently when I was drunk I went BCs (with tank/thor/3:3marinemarauder) at like the 35min mark on Shakuras, he built a ton of corruptors to murder my BCs but then I just went marauder/tank/marine and sprinted across the map to kill him since he had nearly 40 food invested in corruptors, (and then however much food in drones) it wasn't hard for my ground army to kill his low supply ground army.
I'll find the replay if you want, but it's not a good game at all, really bad play on both players sides, but I just wanted to hear your thoughts on going BCs to elicit a response, and then hard countering the response (or in the case of corruptors, ignoring* it)
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On April 05 2011 08:06 spbelky wrote:
Pride, I like the idea behind your strategy, but what are your thoughts on the premise of rushing BCs to elicit some response (say corruptors) and then swapping to something on the ground, utilizing the corruptor investment a complete waste of minerals/gas/supply? I know in one of my TvZs recently when I was drunk I went BCs (with tank/thor/3:3marinemarauder) at like the 35min mark on Shakuras, he built a ton of corruptors to murder my BCs but then I just went marauder/tank/marine and sprinted across the map to kill him since he had nearly 40 food invested in corruptors, (and then however much food in drones) it wasn't hard for my ground army to kill his low supply ground army.
I'll find the replay if you want, but it's not a good game at all, really bad play on both players sides, but I just wanted to hear your thoughts on going BCs to elicit a response, and then hard countering the response (or in the case of corruptors, ignoring* it)
The problem with this is a smart zerg won't build to much corruptors. So far I find that BCs are more effective early game to a little slight mid game, I haven't tried a late game with bcs mix in composition.
but meh
-Pride
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Canada13427 Posts
looking forwatd to an expanded op since its very difficult to get an idea of this build based on the current op. nothing against you as a player im sure you ate good and this is a good build to throw on once in a while but the op does need some work
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Actually to all those doubters, a fast rush to BCs is pretty strong as you can have one out and hitting them before their spire finishes, not to mention that when you do the push you not only delay the spire as he defends, but it keeps him from thinking your doing something sneaky because you are attacking. Typically most zergs have 2 queens, MAYBE 3 for defence, you should see what a BC does to this many queens...
This is an awesome strategy to have in your back pocket to throw in and mix things up with, not to mention that it's pretty unconventional. Another thing people seem to overlook is that even if they DO scout it and get out enough queens to defend, you just pull back and you now have a BC enforcing your ground army.
Edit: Just checked the numbers, you can have a BC built by 7:20 with about 1300 minerals to build marines/hellions/expansion with.
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On April 05 2011 08:44 ZeromuS wrote:
looking forwatd to an expanded op since its very difficult to get an idea of this build based on the current op. nothing against you as a player im sure you ate good and this is a good build to throw on once in a while but the op does need some work
slightly lazy, I just need more free and i'll update the BO in more depth.. just a little vague
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On April 05 2011 08:46 dmillz wrote:
Actually to all those doubters, a fast rush to BCs is pretty strong as you can have one out and hitting them before their spire finishes, not to mention that when you do the push you not only delay the spire as he defends, but it keeps him from thinking your doing something sneaky because you are attacking. Typically most zergs have 2 queens, MAYBE 3 for defence, you should see what a BC does to this many queens...
Edit: Just checked the numbers, you can have a BC built by 7:20 with about 1300 minerals to build marines/hellions/expansion with.
stil twecking it to perfection, but it seems to work great so far.
- pride
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doesnt mass ling + mass infestor own any type of high tech unit composition by terrans? (ling take all damage from ground fire while infestor take control of bcs
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The FASTEST way to get out a BC is this BO:
10 Supply Depot
12 Refinery
13 Barracks (Naked)
16 Factory (Naked)
17 Refinery
18 Orbital Command
18 Supply Depot
18 Starport (Naked)
21 Fusion Core
21 Starport Tech Lab
23 Supply Depot
25 Battle Cruiser
34 Supply Depot
This is the one I mentioned that allows you to get the BC out at 7:20 with ~1300 minerals leftover to do what you want with. Remember that if you are building marines/hellions for a push/defence you will need additional supply depots thrown in to this to support it.
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On April 05 2011 08:50 dde wrote:
doesnt mass ling + mass infestor own any type of high tech unit composition by terrans? (ling take all damage from ground fire while infestor take control of bcs
the game vs rootdestiny, He didn't really have much time to respond to get the neural parasite or w/e its called. He then went mass infested terrans which failed..Also the push was just the BCs alone with air support.
-pride
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On April 05 2011 08:52 dmillz wrote:
The FASTEST way to get out a BC is this BO:
10 Supply Depot
12 Refinery
13 Barracks (Naked)
16 Factory (Naked)
17 Refinery
18 Orbital Command
18 Supply Depot
18 Starport (Naked)
21 Fusion Core
21 Starport Tech Lab
23 Supply Depot
25 Battle Cruiser
34 Supply Depot
This is the one I mentioned that allows you to get the BC out at 7:20 with ~1300 minerals leftover to do what you want with.
I don't know if straight bcs would be effective.
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On April 05 2011 08:54 huytruong742 wrote:
I don't know if straight bcs would be effective.
It wouldn't, this is just a BASE build order that gets you a BC the fastest possible way, you then incorporate your marines/hellions into it and VIOLA.
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On April 05 2011 08:55 dmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 08:54 huytruong742 wrote:
I don't know if straight bcs would be effective. It wouldn't, this is just a BASE build order that gets you a BC the fastest possible way, you then incorporate your marines/hellions into it and VIOLA.
i'll research on that and get back to you
-pride
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Neural takes too long to hold this rush I think. It also has the drawback of not actually killing the battlecruiser. Maybe the queens can take it out but it'd be close. That's one of those things that requires a lot of playtesting to figure out how to hold off.
Meanwhile the rest of terrans minerals goes into hellion-marine. unless zerg was planning to roach all-in, hes not going to come out ahead in the fight.
Personally I think 3 corruptors is the way to go, followed by standard ling-bling-muta.
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On April 05 2011 08:56 huytruong742 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 08:55 dmillz wrote:On April 05 2011 08:54 huytruong742 wrote:
I don't know if straight bcs would be effective. It wouldn't, this is just a BASE build order that gets you a BC the fastest possible way, you then incorporate your marines/hellions into it and VIOLA. i'll research on that and get back to you -pride
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150082
There, the original BC rush thread. Forgot to bump that thing after 1.3.
I'm not a huge fan of the banshee before BC though, rather I like Raven before BC against Toss and viking against Zerg.
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On April 05 2011 09:00 Antisocialmunky wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 08:56 huytruong742 wrote:On April 05 2011 08:55 dmillz wrote:On April 05 2011 08:54 huytruong742 wrote:
I don't know if straight bcs would be effective. It wouldn't, this is just a BASE build order that gets you a BC the fastest possible way, you then incorporate your marines/hellions into it and VIOLA. i'll research on that and get back to you -pride http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=150082There, the original BC rush thread. Forgot to bump that thing after 1.3. I'm not a huge fan of the banshee before BC though, rather I like Raven before BC against Toss and viking against Zerg.
scv repair got nerfed  doesnt' work no more..banels killl everything
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I understand that this works even in master league but it looks sooo flimsy. I mean you are BARELY BARELY winning by pulling all of your god damn overmade scvs and barely getting GGs.
Destiny game looked more stable because of 2 base though
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I lost to this today. The BC ms speed increase is insane, they already have a ton of hit points and with this speed they can retreat, be fixed, and come back for more. What seems like a preposterous strat may actually turn to a real build order. Then again, any possible combo of terran unit composition is great against zerg.
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EPT
