EPT[G] Pride BC rush - Page 3
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DumJumJmyWum
United States75 Posts
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Devlawl
Australia122 Posts
On April 05 2011 03:09 huytruong742 wrote: update*, here's one more replay for ya Poorly executed by me and I shouldn't have lost the cc but blah so i got irriated.. and all in him =P.. w/e  http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/159237-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns Aisarang high master zerg BitbyBitPride <3 lol Personally I enjoyed your replays, especially the one versus ROOTDestiny where he spams infested terrans and you just outrun them with your BCs :D I like how this build pretty much forces roaches because otherwise the hellion/marine/medivac pressure will do a lot of damage and the BCs are just there to be awesome and finish the game up. And if they go roaches their tech is slowed down so that the BC follow up is very difficult for the zerg to handle. If you meet Idra on the ladder, please use this build and post the replay of him raging. That would be so awesome lol. How does this build hold up after you've used it on someone once? Seems like in the replays you posted the zergs reacted poorly, most likely due to inexperience defending the funky two port bc/banshee pressure. | ||
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PrideTV
Vietnam434 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:30 Devlawl wrote: BitbyBitPride <3 lol Personally I enjoyed your replays, especially the one versus ROOTDestiny where he spams infested terrans and you just outrun them with your BCs :D I like how this build pretty much forces roaches because otherwise the hellion/marine/medivac pressure will do a lot of damage and the BCs are just there to be awesome and finish the game up. And if they go roaches their tech is slowed down so that the BC follow up is very difficult for the zerg to handle. If you meet Idra on the ladder, please use this build and post the replay of him raging. That would be so awesome lol. How does this build hold up after you've used it on someone once? Seems like in the replays you posted the zergs reacted poorly, most likely due to inexperience defending the funky two port bc/banshee pressure. my hellion/marine/medivac after it's initial push.. i can go on of 10 ways -bc rush -2 port banshee expo -3 port banshee expo -expo -mech build -hellion pressure -marine bio -viking reactor -3x raven push all depends on the dmg and situation of the game | ||
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PrideTV
Vietnam434 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:52 huytruong742 wrote: my hellion/marine/medivac after it's initial push.. i can go on of 10 ways -bc rush -2 port banshee expo -3 port banshee expo -expo -mech build -hellion pressure -marine bio -viking reactor -3x raven push all depends on the dmg, composition of units and situation of the game User was warned for this post | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
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PrideTV
Vietnam434 Posts
On April 05 2011 05:04 CosmicSpiral wrote: Can you put this strategy through its paces? what do you mean? | ||
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murkk
Canada154 Posts
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PrideTV
Vietnam434 Posts
On April 05 2011 05:21 murkk wrote: It's an interesting build... I was working on mech build with a quick marine/thor, expand, and then BCs. But just looking at your fast hellions... mmmm... maybe it forces Zerg to do roaches. that acutally sounds pretty good.. you need tanks though, sounds so susceptible to 2 base banel bust | ||
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pwadoc
271 Posts
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PrideTV
Vietnam434 Posts
On April 05 2011 05:57 pwadoc wrote: This seems like it would get shut down pretty hard by a no-gas 4 queen opening. 4 queens, a few crawlers and some lings will beat back the initial harass without requiring a roach transition, and then your initial BC has to attack into 4 queens. no gas = instant win.. without speed... lings can't do crap vs hellions I win 90% of my games when the zerg doesn't go speedlings early in the game | ||
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
no gas = instant win.. without speed... lings can't do crap vs hellions I win 90% of my games when the zerg doesn't go speedlings early in the game no gas = huge creep spread everywhere, blocked ramp and slowlings. Your hellion harass won't do anything vs that opening. Banshees do ok if not scouted, BC will do ok if either of your other early harass works. But as for lings not doing anything vs hellions, you have to fight your way through 3-4 spine crawlers and 4 queens, and the longer you kill things which aren't drones you are massively behind. Also, the endgame of most zerg is to get a spire which counters all those things. So your strategy is to harass them to death before they get it, which might work just because you have excellent unit control and micro, but you don't seem to like playing macro games which means in the long run, your style of play is flawed and will die out. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
On April 05 2011 05:57 pwadoc wrote: This seems like it would get shut down pretty hard by a no-gas 4 queen opening. 4 queens, a few crawlers and some lings will beat back the initial harass without requiring a roach transition, and then your initial BC has to attack into 4 queens. The most annoying thing to see in [G] threads are theorycraft posts about how to beat said strategy. If you have any counter-reps to post, then by all means do so. But I'm guessing you've never played against a semi-competent BC rush before, so don't post ways to beat something you have no experience handling. I'm going to start handing out temp bans if I see more of this shit. | ||
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PrideTV
Vietnam434 Posts
On April 05 2011 06:59 darkscream wrote: no gas = huge creep spread everywhere, blocked ramp and slowlings. Your hellion harass won't do anything vs that opening. Banshees do ok if not scouted, BC will do ok if either of your other early harass works. But as for lings not doing anything vs hellions, you have to fight your way through 3-4 spine crawlers and 4 queens, and the longer you kill things which aren't drones you are massively behind. Also, the endgame of most zerg is to get a spire which counters all those things. So your strategy is to harass them to death before they get it, which might work just because you have excellent unit control and micro, but you don't seem to like playing macro games which means in the long run, your style of play is flawed and will die out. hellion elevated.. i can get behind the minerals lines. my hellion harass will shut him down. with 1 medivac, 3 hellions and 7 marines.. it work wonders you're wrong my friend | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
I see three successful replays, but I don't see any actual discussion about the limitations/strengths of the build in relation to the matchup. If the marine/hellion/medivac push fails and the zerg doesn't make roaches in response, do you change your strategy? Do you delay BCs for other units if your opponent goes for an immediate counterattack? Is it vulnerable to a certain timing window i.e. if zerg scouts the starports and the core, can BCs come out for the push before spore crawlers/hydralisks/corruptors/mutalisks come out on the field? So I'm wondering if you're going to test this strategy to see I watched the first game and Slush kinda failed. He even scouted the core and 2nd starport before it was finished, and he decided to make pure queens. Battlecruiser armor cuts into queen attack so badly they become near-worthless, but he had to account for banshees as well. I would hardly blame him for making a queen defense. Destiny...sigh. Bad overlord placement makes your initial push monstrously successful; even while the resources lost is closer than it initially appears, those drones spend a long time waiting near the ramp for a counter-attack. If I was him, immediately after that attack I would have thrown down my 9 o'clock third: between the clear teching and number of units, your push was meant to cause damage or put you behind. Instead he constantly uses larva for zerglings and infestors (with no macro hatch to boot) and expands late...at the gold. He gets overlord speed and never uses it to scout your base. Even after you successfully ravaged his main the counterattack could have proved fatal if he had bothered to make a baneling nest. And even though he has double evo chamber he doesn't make spore crawlers while his minerals exceed +2000. It was touch and go with Aisarang. He held off the drops beautifully but overreacted with more zerglings and roaches. A lot of your success came from the relative inactivity of that 12 o'clock overlord. It could easily stopped the core if it had moved into position to spot the expansion. You had the same counterattack problem as Destiny but Aisarang executed it better and nearly base-traded with you. Overall, I like the idea of fast BCs as a potentially game-ending blow and using an early harass to make zerg play defensively. However once you make BCs in that manner it seems like you are ultimately committed to a 1-base play. You only expanded in Game 2 and that was largely because Destiny delayed your second gas for so long. I see this becoming a viable strategy if you actually expand after the initial harass and don't reveal your battlecruisers until the very end. On a map like Shakuras you could convert this into a very strong two-base push that he will have literally no time to react to if he doesn't scout it. | ||
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PrideTV
Vietnam434 Posts
On April 05 2011 07:11 Saracen wrote: The most annoying thing to see in [G] threads are theorycraft posts about how to beat said strategy. If you have any counter-reps to post, then by all means do so. But I'm guessing you've never played against a semi-competent BC rush before, so don't post ways to beat something you have no experience handling. I'm going to start handing out temp bans if I see more of this shit. much love <3, he has no clue what hellion harass does when zerg has no speed  | ||
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GoonSack
New Zealand36 Posts
On April 05 2011 06:59 darkscream wrote: Also, the endgame of most zerg is to get a spire which counters all those things. So your strategy is to harass them to death before they get it, which might work just because you have excellent unit control and micro, but you don't seem to like playing macro games which means in the long run, your style of play is flawed and will die out. He's posting one strategy and you start talking as if he'll be flogging this till the day he dies. Openings like this are cool for tournament play, even if they aren't stable. | ||
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Crytch
Germany135 Posts
BO: 10 Depot 12 Racks -> constant Marine production 13 Gas 15 OC @100Gas Fac -> constant Hellion production 2. Gas @100Gas Starport @100% Starport Techlab + Raven + Core @100% Raven -> BC @100% BC -> push out You need to hide the core, so the protoss wont think that there will be bc soon. With your raven you can kill observers and hide your (not placed) expansion/tech buildings. Played it just 2-3 times, but always won with it. /edit: Saison 1 -> 3.5k Terran | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On April 05 2011 06:59 darkscream wrote: no gas = huge creep spread everywhere, blocked ramp and slowlings. Your hellion harass won't do anything vs that opening. Banshees do ok if not scouted, BC will do ok if either of your other early harass works. But as for lings not doing anything vs hellions, you have to fight your way through 3-4 spine crawlers and 4 queens, and the longer you kill things which aren't drones you are massively behind. Also, the endgame of most zerg is to get a spire which counters all those things. So your strategy is to harass them to death before they get it, which might work just because you have excellent unit control and micro, but you don't seem to like playing macro games which means in the long run, your style of play is flawed and will die out. Actually, his harass did nothing in Game 3 and his BCs proceeded to wreck Aisarang's economy. Aisarang only survived because he was able to make corruptors in time. | ||
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
As for the build it's obviously new, cool and creative and will work against a lot of players. It seemed like both Zergs went roaches pre-emptively though (new trend to counter the usual hellion play?) which delayed lair and ultimately their corruptors. Though the use of the viking was just genius.. Man I'll give this a shot in some practice games tomorrow and try it on ladder if I don't fail miserably. And to whoever said an early marine hellion drop isn't powerful.. just lol (though I do it with two medvacs, am I stupid?) | ||
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