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I can't believe everyone thinks an 8 marine 3 hellion push with medivac is weak. Have you watched any tvz at all?
Goody beat fruitdealer with it.
Pokebunny does it very frequently, depending on the map (almost always on scrap station).
Fargo also does this on maps that seem suitable for it.
Now, yet another top 200 player suggests that it is strong, posts replays proving it and everyone flames him. *Sigh*
Sure, zerg could hold it off, it rarely is meant to end the game, but zerg will have to cut drones and make lings and roaches to do so, and if zerg doesn't then he will lose drones, if zerg is allining anyway, you will be able to see it coming and react accordingly. There is no way a marine hellion medivac opening is bad, and there is plenty of replays to prove it.
Back to the topic of the BC rush transition, I am not certain of its efficacy against a zerg that can react well to it, but your replays show that it is extremely viable atm.
Making your cc into a pf to defend expo seems strong as well, since even with bc speed upgrade they are still fairly immobile.
Excellent post OP.
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On April 06 2011 19:19 Jesushooves wrote:
I can't believe everyone thinks an 8 marine 3 hellion push with medivac is weak. Have you watched any tvz at all?
Goody beat fruitdealer with it.
Pokebunny does it very frequently, depending on the map (almost always on scrap station).
Fargo also does this on maps that seem suitable for it.
Now, yet another top 200 player suggests that it is strong, posts replays proving it and everyone flames him. *Sigh*
Sure, zerg could hold it off, it rarely is meant to end the game, but zerg will have to cut drones and make lings and roaches to do so, and if zerg doesn't then he will lose drones, if zerg is allining anyway, you will be able to see it coming and react accordingly. There is no way a marine hellion medivac opening is bad, and there is plenty of replays to prove it.
Back to the topic of the BC rush transition, I am not certain of its efficacy against a zerg that can react well to it, but your replays show that it is extremely viable atm.
Making your cc into a pf to defend expo seems strong as well, since even with bc speed upgrade they are still fairly immobile.
Excellent post OP.
Thanks for the positive feedback 
Seems like most zerg doesn't know how to deal with it quite yet due to it being so new. I just need to experiment on it a lot more to be positive, but as far as i'm aware, mutas is by far the worst against BCs'
-Pride
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im pretty new to the TL community and forums but since my first day of SC2 the BC was my nr1 unit.
first of all i want to say that 8 marine 3 hellion 1 medivac is a build that should be absolute STANDARD terran opener
simple 1-1-1 with the highest amount of units you can have at the point
yet people tell this might be BS and as thankfully already mentioned there are a whole bunch of pro terrans using this build
TLO whiped Tyler with it in a TvP at MLG
GooDy vs Nestea on metalopolis - which was up to the banshee the EXACT same opener Pride uses and it won him the game at TSL against the such called NR.1 Zerg out there
SjoW beat Squirtle in another TvP at IEM
edit: i actually saw that push the first time on KawaiiRice's stream in TvZ and it was his bread and butter cookie cutter opener when i used to watch his stream
Same counts for TLOs stream, yet he does this a lot more in TvT
just to give a few examples.
now considering the buildorder - you can do that 1-1-1 opener off of 1 gas set an expo and have the same push coming to your opponent(8m,3h,1vac), have you experimented with it?
I think that might be the best way to open your tech path towards banshee / bc atacks and still have that awesome medivac marine hellion combo on the field to harass and simply hate on the zerg in addition to an expo.
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On April 06 2011 19:50 OneNutTony wrote:
im pretty new to the TL community and forums but since my first day of SC2 the BC was my nr1 unit.
first of all i want to say that 8 marine 3 hellion 1 medivac is a build that should be absolute STANDARD terran opener
simple 1-1-1 with the highest amount of units you can have at the point
yet people tell this might be BS and as thankfully already mentioned there are a whole bunch of pro terrans using this build
TLO whiped Tyler with it in a TvP at MLG
GooDy vs Nestea on metalopolis - which was up to the banshee the EXACT same opener Pride uses and it won him the game at TSL against the such called NR.1 Zerg out there
SjoW beat Squirtle in another TvP at IEM
edit: i actually saw that push the first time on KawaiiRice's stream in TvZ and it was his bread and butter cookie cutter opener when i used to watch his stream
Same counts for TLOs stream, yet he does this a lot more in TvT
just to give a few examples.
now considering the buildorder - you can do that 1-1-1 opener off of 1 gas set an expo and have the same push coming to your opponent(8m,3h,1vac), have you experimented with it?
I think that might be the best way to open your tech path towards banshee / bc atacks and still have that awesome medivac marine hellion combo on the field to harass and simply hate on the zerg in addition to an expo.
my 6-8 marines, 3 h, and 1 vac is a standard build opener I use in almost all of zerg. 60% of the time.. they just die to it or losing to many drones to the point where. i could box all my units..hit 1.. click a... sit and drink tea.. and profit..
-pride
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I did this 3 times in last nights ladder session and went 2 -1 (diamond league). My execution was rather poor in all three games but the ones that I won the opponent massed queens against the initial banshee which all died as soon as the BC arrived. In the one loss the guy spammed spore colonies everywhere as soon as he saw the BC.
I will say that the marine+helion+medivac push works GREAT. I usually find an open spot and drop in the main bypassing all the spines. If the overlord is out of position it will do a ton of damage or at least force them to spam zerglings.
Tonight I will work more on the macro of the build. I had trouble getting depots down fast enough to account for the amount of units being produced.
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Watched both ROOT replays.
I've been doing the blueflame hellion poke/harrass into marauder hellion stim push, and I must thank you guys for introducing the 3h8m1med build and showed it to me. I am in awe. I have done (LOVED) 3 hellion drops and can do the timing perfectly, but Ive never brought my marines along for the fun yet.
I watched the replays and I have to say my first impression is that Pride does not have the best control in any sense. But this is not against him. This is a strategy game, but even though we put a lot of emphasis on control, the "enough" amount of control with a good strategy is always a lovely way to win. Watching the replays made me know just how good this build can be with any mid/top dia level control but with a very strong strategy with it.
Im interested if Pride has anymore of these unconventional but extremely effective build that doesnt require a ton of control, and is here really to add more flavor to the game, and put more emphasis on the "fun" (Not for the zerg player tho o_O, but for me seeing BCs no matter what race Im playing always puts a smile in my heart.)
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On April 06 2011 20:12 scrub96 wrote:
I did this 3 times in last nights ladder session and went 2 -1 (diamond league). My execution was rather poor in all three games but the ones that I won the opponent massed queens against the initial banshee which all died as soon as the BC arrived. In the one loss the guy spammed spore colonies everywhere as soon as he saw the BC.
I will say that the marine+helion+medivac push works GREAT. I usually find an open spot and drop in the main bypassing all the spines. If the overlord is out of position it will do a ton of damage or at least force them to spam zerglings.
Tonight I will work more on the macro of the build. I had trouble getting depots down fast enough to account for the amount of units being produced.
just be vigilant with the supplies then xD
If they spammed spore hardcore.. do as much dmg as you can .. retreat and macro up hard.
-pride
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On April 06 2011 20:14 padfoota wrote:
Watched both ROOT replays.
I've been doing the blueflame hellion poke/harrass into marauder hellion stim push, and I must thank you guys for introducing the 3h8m1med build and showed it to me. I am in awe. I have done (LOVED) 3 hellion drops and can do the timing perfectly, but Ive never brought my marines along for the fun yet.
I watched the replays and I have to say my first impression is that Pride does not have the best control in any sense. But this is not against him. This is a strategy game, but even though we put a lot of emphasis on control, the "enough" amount of control with a good strategy is always a lovely way to win. Watching the replays made me know just how good this build can be with any mid/top dia level control but with a very strong strategy with it.
Im interested if Pride has anymore of these unconventional but extremely effective build that doesnt require a ton of control, and is here really to add more flavor to the game, and put more emphasis on the "fun" (Not for the zerg player tho o_O, but for me seeing BCs no matter what race Im playing always puts a smile in my heart.)
Hmmm.. which one was bad control? i would like to know, so that i could improved. I like micro intense builds where the user has to have a decent amount of control, but uh... i can't think of any that is mega fun and mega gimmicky other than raven timing auto-turret push.
Hmm.. i should do a strat on that ^__^
-Pride
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On April 06 2011 20:21 huytruong742 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 20:14 padfoota wrote:
Watched both ROOT replays.
I've been doing the blueflame hellion poke/harrass into marauder hellion stim push, and I must thank you guys for introducing the 3h8m1med build and showed it to me. I am in awe. I have done (LOVED) 3 hellion drops and can do the timing perfectly, but Ive never brought my marines along for the fun yet.
I watched the replays and I have to say my first impression is that Pride does not have the best control in any sense. But this is not against him. This is a strategy game, but even though we put a lot of emphasis on control, the "enough" amount of control with a good strategy is always a lovely way to win. Watching the replays made me know just how good this build can be with any mid/top dia level control but with a very strong strategy with it.
Im interested if Pride has anymore of these unconventional but extremely effective build that doesnt require a ton of control, and is here really to add more flavor to the game, and put more emphasis on the "fun" (Not for the zerg player tho o_O, but for me seeing BCs no matter what race Im playing always puts a smile in my heart.) Hmmm.. which one was bad control? i would like to know, so that i could improved. My bc and banshee control is horrid though.. but my hellion control is uber.. and marines as well. I like micro intense builds where the user has to have a decent amount of control, but uh... i can't think of any that is mega fun and mega gimmicky other than raven timing auto-turret push. Hmm.. i should do a strat on that ^__^ -Pride
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On April 06 2011 20:21 huytruong742 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 20:14 padfoota wrote:
Watched both ROOT replays.
I've been doing the blueflame hellion poke/harrass into marauder hellion stim push, and I must thank you guys for introducing the 3h8m1med build and showed it to me. I am in awe. I have done (LOVED) 3 hellion drops and can do the timing perfectly, but Ive never brought my marines along for the fun yet.
I watched the replays and I have to say my first impression is that Pride does not have the best control in any sense. But this is not against him. This is a strategy game, but even though we put a lot of emphasis on control, the "enough" amount of control with a good strategy is always a lovely way to win. Watching the replays made me know just how good this build can be with any mid/top dia level control but with a very strong strategy with it.
Im interested if Pride has anymore of these unconventional but extremely effective build that doesnt require a ton of control, and is here really to add more flavor to the game, and put more emphasis on the "fun" (Not for the zerg player tho o_O, but for me seeing BCs no matter what race Im playing always puts a smile in my heart.) Hmmm.. which one was bad control? i would like to know, so that i could improved. I like micro intense builds where the user has to have a decent amount of control, but uh... i can't think of any that is mega fun and mega gimmicky other than raven timing auto-turret push. Hmm.. i should do a strat on that ^__^ -Pride
He is probably talking about the game vs SLush where you brought all your SCVs/Marines/Helions which got demolished by the banelings. I was surprised by it as well. It looks like you could have split better there (or even lead with the scvs to tank the banelings) and come out better. Either way you won and you are a much better player than myself so maybe you had your reasons.
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On April 06 2011 20:37 scrub96 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 20:21 huytruong742 wrote:On April 06 2011 20:14 padfoota wrote:
Watched both ROOT replays.
I've been doing the blueflame hellion poke/harrass into marauder hellion stim push, and I must thank you guys for introducing the 3h8m1med build and showed it to me. I am in awe. I have done (LOVED) 3 hellion drops and can do the timing perfectly, but Ive never brought my marines along for the fun yet.
I watched the replays and I have to say my first impression is that Pride does not have the best control in any sense. But this is not against him. This is a strategy game, but even though we put a lot of emphasis on control, the "enough" amount of control with a good strategy is always a lovely way to win. Watching the replays made me know just how good this build can be with any mid/top dia level control but with a very strong strategy with it.
Im interested if Pride has anymore of these unconventional but extremely effective build that doesnt require a ton of control, and is here really to add more flavor to the game, and put more emphasis on the "fun" (Not for the zerg player tho o_O, but for me seeing BCs no matter what race Im playing always puts a smile in my heart.) Hmmm.. which one was bad control? i would like to know, so that i could improved. I like micro intense builds where the user has to have a decent amount of control, but uh... i can't think of any that is mega fun and mega gimmicky other than raven timing auto-turret push. Hmm.. i should do a strat on that ^__^ -Pride He is probably talking about the game vs SLush where you brought all your SCVs/Marines/Helions which got demolished by the banelings. I was surprised by it as well. It looks like you could have split better there (or even lead with the scvs to tank the banelings) and come out better. Either way you won and you are a much better player than myself so maybe you had your reasons.
i didn't really split much that game but i freaked out when teh banels did more dmg then it should.. i got over confidence i guesss..
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I saw ROOTCatZ lose to this on his stream yesterday. (on ladder)
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I'm not sure you invented this strategy enough to have written it up with your name, I wrote up basically exactly the same BO a few weeks ago except subtract the medivac which granted adds additional harass ability but slows the BC. If you cut a couple hellions I think you could fit an expansion into this strategy to make it more long term viable.
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On April 06 2011 23:30 statikg wrote:
I'm not sure you invented this strategy enough to have written it up with your name, I wrote up basically exactly the same BO a few weeks ago except subtract the medivac which granted adds additional harass ability but slows the BC. If you cut a couple hellions I think you could fit an expansion into this strategy to make it more long term viable.
Its nothing new i used to do a build like this as a joke, but with BC Buff it is now actually viable because it catches people off gaurd. I dont think any strategy post with a rough BO should be named after anybody honestly, it just gets annoying when i read the strategy forum and everybody does some random BO that they got to work and names it "X randoms crazy build".
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I saw you do this yesterday against ROOTCatZ via his Stream. He was able to hold it off, but it was darn close. A clear transition to two bases or lower tech is missing, after it failed against him it seemed you had no recourse. BCs and banshees are expensive D-:
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On April 06 2011 23:30 statikg wrote:
I'm not sure you invented this strategy enough to have written it up with your name, I wrote up basically exactly the same BO a few weeks ago except subtract the medivac which granted adds additional harass ability but slows the BC. If you cut a couple hellions I think you could fit an expansion into this strategy to make it more long term viable.
If you watched my latest replay vs isospeedrix, you would know.
-pride
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On April 06 2011 23:35 uSnAmplified wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 23:30 statikg wrote:
I'm not sure you invented this strategy enough to have written it up with your name, I wrote up basically exactly the same BO a few weeks ago except subtract the medivac which granted adds additional harass ability but slows the BC. If you cut a couple hellions I think you could fit an expansion into this strategy to make it more long term viable. Its nothing new i used to do a build like this as a joke, but with BC Buff it is now actually viable because it catches people off gaurd. I dont think any strategy post with a rough BO should be named after anybody honestly, it just gets annoying when i read the strategy forum and everybody does some random BO that they got to work and names it "X randoms crazy build".
If you're annoyed.. don't spam my spot..
thanks and bye
-pride
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On April 06 2011 23:40 Xakta wrote:
I saw you do this yesterday against ROOTCatZ via his Stream. He was able to hold it off, but it was darn close. A clear transition to two bases or lower tech is missing, after it failed against him it seemed you had no recourse. BCs and banshees are expensive D-:
yea, that's why 1 base bc won't cut it. infestor just owns my scvs and marines I'm trying to expand while the bcs harass is going on.. So far with my latest replay of isospeedrix.. worked out well ..
-pride
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On April 06 2011 23:43 huytruong742 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 23:35 uSnAmplified wrote:On April 06 2011 23:30 statikg wrote:
I'm not sure you invented this strategy enough to have written it up with your name, I wrote up basically exactly the same BO a few weeks ago except subtract the medivac which granted adds additional harass ability but slows the BC. If you cut a couple hellions I think you could fit an expansion into this strategy to make it more long term viable. Its nothing new i used to do a build like this as a joke, but with BC Buff it is now actually viable because it catches people off gaurd. I dont think any strategy post with a rough BO should be named after anybody honestly, it just gets annoying when i read the strategy forum and everybody does some random BO that they got to work and names it "X randoms crazy build". If you're annoyed.. don't spam my spot.. thanks and bye -pride You just made three posts all within the same three minutes, when you could have you know made one post and responded to all three, thats spamming.
Criticizing you for having having a badly written original post, with a rough build order, no transitions or any gameplan other then hope i killed him with my BCs, then sticking in some random ladder replays where you managed to beat someone with it once is not spamming.
yea i get annoyed when people do some cheesy build and win four games, then name it after themselves and make a post about it. If you have a problem with that put some effort with your post and stop spamming because you come across as really stupid.
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EPT
