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Nakas
United States148 Posts
On April 04 2011 05:49 DeltruS wrote: He had 12 infestors VS HuK on the game that HuK dced. I really wanted to see how well IdrA would use them. I felt the same way. It was going to be a more wide open engagement there on Shakuras than it was on his previous Crossfire game, so I imagine the infestors would have been more effective. | ||
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Scaryman
United States70 Posts
On April 04 2011 06:47 morimacil wrote: not really, no. 7 infestors is a ton of gas. 1300 gas to be exact. if you are getting neural parasite, then thats another 150 gas, and you cant have it by the time a toss has 3 colossi. Well actually, you can, but you cant have that, plus an actual army, and infestors are just support units. Infestors are super gas heavy support units with super gas heavy upgrades, that are meant to support a super gas heavy army with super gas heavy upgrades. thats the problem, the gas. Thats also the reason why stuff like marine-marauder-viking works much better against toss deathballs than roach hydra corruptor. without going into the whole range, and relative power of the units, mm viking is just a much more streamlined composition based on your income. a mineral unit, 2 units that are relatively cheap on gas, and 250 gas spent on upgrades. roach hydra corruptor, you are looking at a relatively gas cheap unit, 2 gas expensive units, and at least 350 gas on upgrades. So adding in more support units like infestors that are super gas heavy, with more gas heavy upgrades needed, is just not really possible most of the time. You can only get so much gas, even if you are 1 base up over your opponent. pro tip you dont need hydras | ||
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MrBadMan
93 Posts
The one thing infestors are godly against are death balls with alot of zealots/sentries. | ||
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ODKStevez
Ireland1225 Posts
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Tef
Sweden443 Posts
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enrOo
Finland23 Posts
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On April 04 2011 06:30 tdt wrote: It was a buff and a nerf. More damage to protoss units because most are armored but less time locking them down so they can get back to the business of FF and blinking again. I don't think you'll see much change at pro levels. What about saving 2 infestors' energy so that it can get to 3 FG and kill the sentries before engaging our army ? You can also spend ur surplus of minerals to get glings and suicide ur glings to save the life of the infestors and FG 3 times before dying against colossus ? I'm seriously thinking about using it more and more... Having way less FFs could be really interesting (it takes 3 FGs for sentries to be killed but you can already spend ur 3rd FG straight after the 2nd one since they have like 10 hp left after 2 FGs). Downside is obviously spreading ur sentries which pretty much renders infestors useless. Maybe you could lure them with glings so that the toss army get clumped again ?  | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
zerglings are zerglings. lings are zerglings banelings are banelings. blings are banelings. speedlings are zerglings with the metabolic boost upgrade. cracklings are speedlings with the adrenal gland upgrade. but glings? what the hell are glings supposed to be? And no matter what you meant by glings, its still not a great idea. Because all in all, you are investing a lot of gas in infestors (yes, even 2 infestors is a lot of gas), and a lot of time too. And then you are relying on greatly outmicroing your opponent to make them useful, if your opponent microes his colossi and one-shots them, blinks some stalkers and kills them, or spreads out his sentries a bit, and so on, then your big gas investment is once again useless. its kind of like sending out 1 zealot to fight 2 marines. sure enough, if your opponent has shit micro, it could be a good idea, but making an investment that relies on your opponent having terrible micro just so that investment pays off for itself is a bad idea. Even if you do manage to kill the sentries, they are just there to amplify the toss army's potential, they arent the real army. Its great if you can kill the sentries, and your opponent can no longer cut off a third of your army and kill it. But if you have to sacrifice a third of your army to do that, then in the end, while you dont get crushed by the forcefields, you still get crushed in exactly the same way as if there had been forcefields. running infestors forward to fungal the sentries, relies on your opponent mismicroing. Not only that, but it relies on your opponent mismicroing, 3 times in a row. And even once that happend, its still not like you are in a game winning advantage situation. its unlikely that you would be able to get 100% of his sentries, he can warp in some more, and even assuming the fact that you did get all his sentries, and he cant warp in any more, since you had to use up so much gas to do that, you still are not ahead, because the rest of your army is that much weaker now. just 3 infestors, with the upgrade, to fungal 3 times, is 450 gas for the infestors, 150 for the upgrade, 100 for the pit, thats 700 gas, thats 28 roaches that you now cant afford. or 7 corruptors less. good luck fighting a toss deathball, with 7 less corruptors, you will get raped by colossi and void rays. | ||
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Chinesewonder
Canada354 Posts
I haven't changed my ZvP at all since the patch. Same thing goes, roach heavy, with hydras, and 30-40 banelings for drops. Then 8-10 corruptor. And let me tell you, it works amazing even if my ground gets ff'ed to crap, by the end the deathball doesnt have any stalkers, sentries, zealots and the colossi are sometimes heavily damaged. When I pull it off flawlessly I can be left with 50-75%, at the very worst I trade armies with corruptors left over which is a huge plus for me still. | ||
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Avril_Lavigne
United States446 Posts
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morimacil
France921 Posts
Zergs who go straight for infestor after lair is a pretty solid strategy since protoss can't really move out anymore risking their sentries to get fungalled, they have to wait for colossus and the thermal lance giving zerg time to drone up so yeah infestor is pretty viable in all match ups Its called timing windows. protoss players who move out at completely random times and get crushed is nothing new. Either they want to move out and hit early, like for example a 6gate, so its timed before zerg has mutas, infestors, or large numbers of upgraded roache hydra. Or they want to wait for the lategame deathball. Theres really no reason why a toss would want to let you get your lair tech up, and then move out to attack you. and if you rush to get infestors super fast, then you cant really have enough gas to have for a example a bunch of +1 speed roaches with burrow. So if you rush for infestors super fast, a 6gate can still just move in, lose 100% of the sentries through terrible micro, having them all clumped up at the front in a nice circle, and then still roll all over you, because you dont have anything to deal with the stalkers. | ||
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ChoiBoi
United States130 Posts
With infestors, I'm starting to see a very good way to utilize them: infested terrans. Especially against toss, because you always (you should be, anyways) upgrade missile and carapace for roaches, they help amazingly towards infested terrans. The infested terrans do 8 base damage and 10 with +2 missile. They are basically free supply marines! If you shoot them (the larva) dead center into the protoss ball, the collosus linear splash is ruined if they target the marines. Plus, forcefields can't do anything if the units are inside the deathball, now can they? And fungal will keep them in place for this to work. | ||
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Scaryman
United States70 Posts
On April 04 2011 06:51 Mutarisk wrote: Void Rays crap on the Zerg "Deathball" Unless you have 12 infestors to chain the void rays to death (And if you did I'm sure the protoss would be smart enough to split the void rays) Protoss has a unique ability to crap on every zerg unit except the corruptor which actually allows the zerg player to have a small part in dictating how the battle will occur. Since the infestor was changed from a snare to a dps roll, it's kinda worse in providing actual support to units in ZvP. Also, if you have 7 infestors by the time protoss has 3 colossus. You won't have either an Army or Upgrades while the Protoss is way ahead. voidrays are pretty good vs infestors with there low amount of hp and armoredness and unless they have been going voidrays all game you corruptor count should easily be able to maintain air control and protoss can't suddenly build 20 voidrays at a time like you can with corruptors, since at this point you would have 4+ hatches. Protoss cant suddenly make 10 stargates and then voidrays. Once you get air control from the voidrays you have it forever. | ||
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Rodregeus
Australia126 Posts
He's better than me in general which helps, but I just think infestors have so much potential that people haven't figured out yet. I'm going to assume I'm right too, as I kept saying the same thing about FF, everyone said I was an idiot, and now look at MC!  | ||
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DeadPixels
United States78 Posts
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On April 03 2011 11:57 LaLuSh wrote: I have always been of the opinion that fungal growth should (partially) ignore shields and do direct damage to armor (like a light version of plague from broodwar). With fungal being a projectile as it was in the PTR build, I think fungal doing half of its damage to armor and half of its damage to shields would have been a good compromise. Especially as protoss have got counters to infestors in colossi range and templar feedback. Patch didn't do too much to change the infestor's situation in ZvP. I still think it's too much of an investment, too hard to micro; a strategy too prone to backfiring. Whatever people say, you can't keep chaining fungals against a thermal lance army. Maybe in theory you can -- but doesn't work as well in practice. And it just gets harder and harder the longer the game progresses and the bigger the Protoss army gets. 2-3 infestors are always good. More than that commonly proves to be a waste. thanks for the insight. i tried getting infestors but chaining a stalker collo ball is harder than i thought. oh and does it hurt a lot when you get blink sniped... | ||
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On April 04 2011 12:28 DeadPixels wrote: Honest question, if you simultaneously cast several fungal growths on the same group of units does the damage stack or are they just wasted fungals? doesnt stack. you gotta wait until the 4 seconds is up to get maximum chain damage. you cant just put 10 fungals on enemy army in 1 second. itll be a waste. | ||
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johanngrunt
Hong Kong1555 Posts
Would not change any numbers, and just makes infestors harder to target in the heat of battle. They did roughly the same thing to the Thor back in beta and it upped the effectiveness of the thor noticeably. | ||
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ReaperX
Hong Kong1758 Posts
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