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[Q] Fungal Growth helping ZvP vs. Deathball? - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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thehitman
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
1105 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-03 14:56:38
April 03 2011 14:56 GMT
#21
I think that neural parasite is way more useful against protoss death balls. take over all his colossus and you usually win.
Of course your micro has to be better than your opponent one in the first place.
Nakas
Profile Joined May 2010
United States148 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-03 15:40:29
April 03 2011 15:08 GMT
#22
Given Idra's comments on FG being OP, I was expecting him to showcase some sick infestor play in MLG. I haven't seen this yet. There was infestor play in Idra vs Huk game 1, but he seemed to struggle with them. They got killed by collossi and stuck behind FF, to the point where it didn't really seem better than the standard roach/hydra/corruptor. Does anyone have an example of some really kickass infestor play in MLG so far?
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
April 03 2011 16:27 GMT
#23
I can't speak for the effectiveness of Fungal vs a Colossus army, but I just lost a game where I didn't go Colossus (my opponent was very roach heavy), so I went for Gateway+Immortal+Air and Fungal literally ate my army alive. I tried hard to pick off the Infestors, but my opponenet got down three in a row and did massive damage to my army.

The same way that Protoss often needs Colossus to counter Hydras, I think they will need them to counter Infestors now.
Nakas
Profile Joined May 2010
United States148 Posts
April 03 2011 20:47 GMT
#24
Just finished watching the second set of Idra vs Huk, and again no infestor play. Idra just used the standard roach/hydra/corruptor pushes that were used in patch 1.2.
DeltruS
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada2214 Posts
April 03 2011 20:49 GMT
#25
On April 04 2011 05:47 Nakas wrote:
Just finished watching the second set of Idra vs Huk, and again no infestor play. Idra just used the standard roach/hydra/corruptor pushes that were used in patch 1.2.


He had 12 infestors VS HuK on the game that HuK dced. I really wanted to see how well IdrA would use them.
http://grooveshark.com/#/deltrus/music
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
April 03 2011 20:53 GMT
#26
Battles usually end before you can even get your 2nd or 3rd fungal chain off, and managing hydra/roach + corrupter and infestor at the same time isn't very easy since you have to spread with your ground, target fire colli with air, while fungling w/ infestors.
Scaryman
Profile Joined June 2010
United States70 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-03 21:17:34
April 03 2011 21:07 GMT
#27
fungal is storm that cant be avoided for a higher mana cost. It completely destroys but you cant cast in once and then 1a suicide all your infestors. Keeping your infestors alive is important, and if you get to the point where you have 6+ infestors and broodlords you actually cant lose. The zerg "deathball" is the best in the game. fungallord is king and should be every zergs endgame goal in zvp

also fungal + neural is digusting if you have good positioning.(never underestimate neural on immortals, its nasty)

people complain that fights vs the p deathball don't last long enough for 3 fungals, well that also means they don't last long enough for neural to run out. You can easily have 7 infestors when toss has 3-4 colossi. you can neural all the colossi then start fungaling good chance 1 or 2 of your neuraling infestors get picked off so re-neural with a different one. You should still have energy for a 3+ fungals meaning protoss cant do anything about the neurals unless you position poorly.
Jayve
Profile Joined February 2009
155 Posts
April 03 2011 21:20 GMT
#28
I think this questions is on or near topic so:

How long does it take for Protoss Shields to start regenerating?
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
April 03 2011 21:30 GMT
#29
It was a buff and a nerf. More damage to protoss units because most are armored but less time locking them down so they can get back to the business of FF and blinking again. I don't think you'll see much change at pro levels.
MC for president
MageWarden
Profile Joined April 2011
United States95 Posts
April 03 2011 21:39 GMT
#30
it is effective vs a voidray/colo deathball because it rapes void rays (which are normally clumped) in a few hits. (2-4 hits idr).
GG WP NO RE
morimacil
Profile Joined March 2010
France921 Posts
April 03 2011 21:47 GMT
#31
You can easily have 7 infestors when toss has 3-4 colossi.

not really, no.
7 infestors is a ton of gas. 1300 gas to be exact.
if you are getting neural parasite, then thats another 150 gas, and you cant have it by the time a toss has 3 colossi.
Well actually, you can, but you cant have that, plus an actual army, and infestors are just support units.
Infestors are super gas heavy support units with super gas heavy upgrades, that are meant to support a super gas heavy army with super gas heavy upgrades. thats the problem, the gas.

Thats also the reason why stuff like marine-marauder-viking works much better against toss deathballs than roach hydra corruptor.
without going into the whole range, and relative power of the units, mm viking is just a much more streamlined composition based on your income. a mineral unit, 2 units that are relatively cheap on gas, and 250 gas spent on upgrades.
roach hydra corruptor, you are looking at a relatively gas cheap unit, 2 gas expensive units, and at least 350 gas on upgrades.
So adding in more support units like infestors that are super gas heavy, with more gas heavy upgrades needed, is just not really possible most of the time. You can only get so much gas, even if you are 1 base up over your opponent.
m0rg3n
Profile Joined March 2011
25 Posts
April 03 2011 21:50 GMT
#32
In my games, i have noted that Infestors are mainly a way of stopping the toss ball from actually becoming a toss ball - all the time we hear : the best way to kill a toss ball is never to let the toss have it. And in me belief, infestors allow you for some agression, eating chunks of toss army before it reaches the critical mass. People seems to view them as a "counter to toss ball" - no unit in Zerg arsenal is a counter to the ball, but infestors are FINALLY a way to put some pressure on Toss. Of course, he can just stay on 2 bases and max a nice ball, but - a toss on 2 is way less dangerous than toss on 3, right?
"I thought he'd be frustrated, especially since [Huk] can't beat me in a real game..." Idra
Mutarisk
Profile Joined July 2010
United States153 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-03 21:55:10
April 03 2011 21:51 GMT
#33
On April 04 2011 06:07 Scaryman wrote:
fungal is storm that cant be avoided for a higher mana cost. It completely destroys but you cant cast in once and then 1a suicide all your infestors. Keeping your infestors alive is important, and if you get to the point where you have 6+ infestors and broodlords you actually cant lose. The zerg "deathball" is the best in the game. fungallord is king and should be every zergs endgame goal in zvp

also fungal + neural is digusting if you have good positioning.(never underestimate neural on immortals, its nasty)

people complain that fights vs the p deathball don't last long enough for 3 fungals, well that also means they don't last long enough for neural to run out. You can easily have 7 infestors when toss has 3-4 colossi. you can neural all the colossi then start fungaling good chance 1 or 2 of your neuraling infestors get picked off so re-neural with a different one. You should still have energy for a 3+ fungals meaning protoss cant do anything about the neurals unless you position poorly.



Void Rays crap on the Zerg "Deathball"

Unless you have 12 infestors to chain the void rays to death (And if you did I'm sure the protoss would be smart enough to split the void rays)


Protoss has a unique ability to crap on every zerg unit except the corruptor which actually allows the zerg player to have a small part in dictating how the battle will occur.

Since the infestor was changed from a snare to a dps roll, it's kinda worse in providing actual support to units in ZvP.

Also, if you have 7 infestors by the time protoss has 3 colossus.

You won't have either an Army or Upgrades while the Protoss is way ahead.
m0rg3n
Profile Joined March 2011
25 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-03 22:05:45
April 03 2011 21:59 GMT
#34
Protoss aerial units are broken in this match up. Period. Blizzard tried to balance PvP with boosting voidrays, which was a complete fail, as every toss just happily 4 gates into Collosus anyway and Zergs are getting raped due to the "really too much needed VR + dmg to corruptors) and phoenix... well, as marine is a counter to baneling, phoenix is a counter to... hydra
Strange.. BUT, again, dont fight the ball. Never let it happen.
"I thought he'd be frustrated, especially since [Huk] can't beat me in a real game..." Idra
hmunkey
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom1973 Posts
April 03 2011 22:05 GMT
#35
On April 04 2011 00:08 Nakas wrote:
Given Idra's comments on FG being OP, I was expecting him to showcase some sick infestor play in MLG. I haven't seen this yet. There was infestor play in Idra vs Huk game 1, but he seemed to struggle with them. They got killed by collossi and stuck behind FF, to the point where it didn't really seem better than the standard roach/hydra/corruptor. Does anyone have an example of some really kickass infestor play in MLG so far?

When were these comments made? IIRC he said the opposite because Protoss have very good counters to infestors.
Cyanocyst
Profile Joined October 2010
2222 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-03 22:10:52
April 03 2011 22:10 GMT
#36
From what i've seen the buff really hasn't effected much ZvP. Especially the hype going into it, people seem to really overrate the effectiveness.
|| Fruit Dealer | Leenock | Yughio | Coca | Sniper | True | Solar | Dark |
Cyanocyst
Profile Joined October 2010
2222 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-03 22:16:37
April 03 2011 22:16 GMT
#37
On April 03 2011 23:55 B34ST wrote:
I've been raping death balls in ZvP with infestors, ling infestor corrupter.. oh the pure destructive power! It adds an extra 9 dps to everything it hits.. might not sound a lot but it sure as hell is when you think about hitting everything until in the ball..


Thats a weird unit combination. Though in my mind i could see why it would be good. Lings as the main dmg dealer, Supplemental dmg from Infestors. Corrupters to take out colossi.

Probably give this a try.
|| Fruit Dealer | Leenock | Yughio | Coca | Sniper | True | Solar | Dark |
Mutarisk
Profile Joined July 2010
United States153 Posts
April 03 2011 22:19 GMT
#38
On April 04 2011 07:16 Cyanocyst wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2011 23:55 B34ST wrote:
I've been raping death balls in ZvP with infestors, ling infestor corrupter.. oh the pure destructive power! It adds an extra 9 dps to everything it hits.. might not sound a lot but it sure as hell is when you think about hitting everything until in the ball..


Thats a weird unit combination. Though in my mind i could see why it would be good. Lings as the main dmg dealer, Supplemental dmg from Infestors. Corrupters to take out colossi.

Probably give this a try.




IMO, this would probably work better if you bypassed the corruptors all together and just get more infestors and fungal and neural parasite the colossus.
Nakas
Profile Joined May 2010
United States148 Posts
April 03 2011 22:25 GMT
#39
On April 04 2011 07:05 hmunkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2011 00:08 Nakas wrote:
Given Idra's comments on FG being OP, I was expecting him to showcase some sick infestor play in MLG. I haven't seen this yet. There was infestor play in Idra vs Huk game 1, but he seemed to struggle with them. They got killed by collossi and stuck behind FF, to the point where it didn't really seem better than the standard roach/hydra/corruptor. Does anyone have an example of some really kickass infestor play in MLG so far?

When were these comments made? IIRC he said the opposite because Protoss have very good counters to infestors.


I believe he was quoted as saying this on an episode of SotG.
Allred
Profile Joined November 2010
United States352 Posts
April 03 2011 22:29 GMT
#40
hmm seams interesting to me that so many zerg players are not happy with the change. i play zerg as my off race and think the new fungal growth is awsome. sureit is a little different but i think it is better when used correctly. besides imo the buff wasn't really there to help int he stalker sentry collosi ball- i think the new maps allow a proper remaxing of your army if you engage at the right place on the map so you have time to rebuild. i think the buff was to help witht he collosi zealot sentry voidray ball. just my 2 cents though
An expert is a man who tells you a simple thing in a confused way in such a fashion as to make you think the confusion is your own fault. ~William Castle
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