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[D] What ever happened to Banshee + Thor in TvP? - Page 4

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Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
March 21 2011 23:33 GMT
#61
The reason this strat died out imo is because it's bad. It was a bit of a rogue strat before where people didn't really know how to play against it and thus it had some success.
Part of these uncommon strats is that people always keep referring to the games won with it but never refer to how often it loses. Mech TvP is one of those strats as well. It is quite bad if protoss knows how to deal with it but if they mindlessly play their 'anti-bio' plan they might lose to it. Everyone remembers Jinro beating MC with mech, noone brings up the tons of other games where mech gets demolished (search up some Goody replays if you don't believe me, many of them are hard losses).

Like others said, banshee play loses hard to feedback. It doesn't matter if you kill the observer when the banshee's are out of energy. Thors aren't particulary effective against zealots either, so a P army based on zealot + templar simply demolishes this combo.

Farehnheit
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada42 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-22 02:43:41
March 22 2011 02:42 GMT
#62
Thor + Banshee is actually a great composition to fight head on with a protoss army. Part of the strength lies in the fact(hah) that Thors have so much HP so you get to keep their full dps longer than if those same resources were in a couple of bio units. Thors also take up a lot of room which makes storm and collossi splash less effective.

The weakness of this composition is in void rays I think. Sure you can add marines to round out your army, but now you have bio, mech, and air upgrades to do? It's a mess.
_Search_
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada180 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-22 04:27:17
March 22 2011 04:23 GMT
#63
I currently play a lot of Thor/Banshee against Toss, and, yes, it sucks (but so does the whole matchup, toss OP!).

The problem isn't feedback because banshees can be cloak/decloaked nearly instantly by just hitting the D and C keys rapidly to kill the banshees' energy. Psi storm is more of an issue (isn't it always?).

But the real problem is mobility, upgrades, production and gas income.

You really cannot support Thor/Banshee on four geysers, and Blizzard insists on making securing a third base absolutely hellish. If you don't have 6 or 8 geysers not only will you be outproduced but you'll start hoarding minerals, and un-upgraded marines are garbage! Hellions, the other mineral-only unit, are terrible in an army. They have such low DPS that unless they're microed to death even Zealots will kill them. Terran NEEDS gas!

Also, Thors take a long, long, long, long (read: long) time to build. Compared to Toss, who warp in a round of gateway units on command, Thor production is just far too difficult. To make a Thor build viable at least 2 factories are needed, but 4 or 5 are preferred. With tech labs and lost mining time included each factory costs 240/125 and take 85 seconds to build, occupying 1 supply of SCV for 60 seconds. Compare this to the Robotics Facility, which costs 200/100 and takes 65 seconds to build.

In other words, for every 1 factory Terran builds, Toss can build roughly 3 gateways, and warp gate production is far stronger than factory production.

Upgrades are also an issue. I tend to have one armoury upgrading either vehicle plating or ship weapons, but even that seems cost-inefficient. I only do it because I have to make the armoury anyways. 3/3 banshees do not increase in quality enough to justify the cost (especially if you're having to add armouries), and 3/3 Thors tend to not kill any quicker than 0/0 Thors as their attack mechanic is still one huge blow with a heavy cooldown, which means that zealots and stalkers tend to require the same number of shots, only more upgrades means more overkill. Also, hardened shields mean immortals have a limit on how much damage they will take, nullifying weapon upgrades, and if you manage to get hits in on the Colossi, well, lets just say the toss' problems extend far beyond +1 upgrades.

Vehicle plating makes sense, though, since Thors will be absorbing many attacks, and SCVs need as much time as possible to get those repairs in.

The final problem is mobility. Thors are TERRIBLY slow. This means that you are relying entirely on Banshees to guard everything beyond your main choke. In other words, remember all those expos you set up for the extra gas? You better be hoping the toss won't bring observers when they move out to tear them down, because a PF won't hold a deathball by itself. And since Thors are so slow the Protoss has more than enough time to clear out an expansion and get back home before Terran has the chance to counter-attack.
PowerKock
Profile Joined March 2011
46 Posts
March 22 2011 14:07 GMT
#64
I use the marine, thor, banshee, raven, timeing push. very powerfull. I have had a lot of sucess with it, there is a post somewhere on here with the strat.
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