The purpose of this thread is discuss these Zerg "tricks" and see how we can use them creatively outside the context of the videos.
So, I wish I could show Destiny's amazing tricks without showing explicit content; however, Destiny gets "Excited" when he does them and therefore uses loads of profanity.
So for one more time: There is EXPLICIT (NSFW) content in these videos. If this offends you, do not play the videos!!!
Alright so we have about 3 different tricks, one of them a lot more unreliable to use than the rest, one of which is already known, and one of which, I think is pure genius, and I'd like to discuss them with you all. Please excuse the lack of embedding videos, I unfortunately have yet to learn how to.
Trick 1: The "Fungalfield"
So this was done in ZvZ; however, it can be done in any match up really. For those of you who didn't watch the video: Destiny has a rather small roach army, when he scouts a significantly (really significantly) larger roach army coming at him. Destiny has 4 infestors, and this is where we see "The Fungalfield". When the incoming army moves up his ramp, Destiny has a wonderful concave on top, and he uses FG on the ramp, cutting the roach army in half, not allowing the other side to move up the ramp, where Destiny has a beautiful concave advantage. This is combined with Destiny's guardian advantage, which means he's going to get constant reinforcement where he actually wins the match.
The problem really lies that in ZvP or ZvT: We'll generally engage at your natural. So: I believe the best way to engage now, would be with fungal growth at a choke point, which the new maps provide. But even on Xel'Nega at the towers would be a good spot. Mind you there are still units like Colossus and Tanks which will have to be dealt with separately; however, I still see some use in it in the other Match-Ups.
Trick 2: "The Overlord Magnet"
So, again, for those who didn't watch the video: This is a ZvP on Xel'Nega Caverns where Destiny made overlords fly over in his vision at the natural, drawing out the protoss units. Now like most of us: the protoss said "I want that free supply, I want to supply block him", and sent out his ranged units after it. When he did, Destiny caught the units out of position, which eluded to an early victory (or at least a great advantage).
Again the problem lies with this one is it only works if the player responds poorly. But think about it: if he doesn't move out, you've got overlord vision of the natural, no big deal. If he only send like 3 stalkers, only send enough speedlings. When the speedlings come, I think at that time he'd move out to kill them / save his stalkers, and you could feel free to catch him off the ramp.
Trick 3: "Speedling Waist Grab"
This is known by a lot of people, in fact most. It's nothing new that you use your slings to surround and your banelings to lighten the bio. If anything: this is a good tutorial for those of you who don't do it right or think they need help with it. What I thought was quite interesting was rather than even using the lings for a circular surround, really all his goal was to "wrap the back of the group". And as you can see, that's incredibly effective.
The problem here is I don't know how well this will work when tank are on the field; however, that's pretty situational and I'd imagine we'd have mutas by then.
I hope I sum'd up a lot of Destiny's great tricks here and maybe we can talk about them and use them to our advantage to be better Z players.
That's amazing, not because of the tricks themselves, but because Destiny is so damned funny. He sounds so belligerent and possibly drunk when he talks.
Destiny is always entertaining to watch, but really nothing new in this thread. Fungalling your ramp and baiting players are just basic integral tricks for playing Zerg.
my only issue with that 3rd vid is...so destiny killed the whole army...but lost 2 hatches. now what? does he counterattack with lings? does he double expo and drone like hell froze over?
I'm always in that situation. I kill the whole terran army, obliterate it. and they leave.
then i'm....uhhh what would I have done had he stayed? i used up all my blings. would i have tried counterattacking with lings and mutas or something? i once played a game where the terran ONLY made marines and every time i killed his rine army, if i tried counterattacking, i would fight another like 20 and bunkers and so I had to eventually wait till i had brood lords.
That's why I love Destiny. Even thought he's not the CatZ of the zerg yet, he has this amazing ability to think on the go and adapt really quick to any kind of situation
Dave333: The idea is, if you have a standing army left (as he did), and you're on 2 bases, and he just all-in'd you with his army, you now have the ability to remax much faster than him. So he might as well gg.
If he doesn't gg, you can easily camp around his area, making sure he doesn't expand again, you have the entire map to expand, and you can start planning and saving larvae for your "hero army" of unstoppable forces (E.G: 15 ultras and loads of banelings or whatever you want to do because on the base count he has after the all-in the only think he's really going to be able to reinforce left with is marine marauder and maybe a few tanks)
Also: could we start talking about these tricks rather than just saying "yaay I love destiny!"
So story time (at the time I hadnt heard about the herp derp retard magnet ovie): ZvT on Lost Temple close air positions.. I go15 or 16 hatch and scout a 2 rax and no rush comes. I see he actually lifted his two raxes and moved them to his natural's choke and finished the wall with a supply depot and then a 5-7 marines behind it. So I decide im going to baneling bust through this and hope that the marines dont kill to much in the process. I then come up with a marvelous idea...send a scouting overlord so he feels the need to kill it, and when his marines go back up the ramp I will make my move. Sure enough he pulls all of his marines except one or two to kill the ovie and I bust down his wall and kill all his marines and instant gg.
I then go to skype and tell a friend about it and he says "ah yea destiny's retard magnet. its fun to pull off his strats." I then find the youtube video and realize I am not as awesome as i thought and probably subconsciously remembered it as I watch stevens stream often...
It was nice to feel like a strategic genius if only for a little while.
like you said, they capitalize (the first two) on the opponent's mistakes.
1) Ok really, why the hell did he move up the ramp? He had map control, and he risked it by putting himself in an insanely disadvantaged situation.
2) What if he has a zealot or other blocking the ramp and you lose your Overlord? Sure you might have enough speedlings to kill the three stalkers, but that cuts into your drone count. This would only be "effective" if you needed the speedlings for something else (like anticipating a 4gate or such).
3) Obvious, engage from more than one side. Except I can't believe so many zergs only engage from one side, and then complain that Marines or MMM is imba, and that Marines counter Banelings =/
is a thread really necessary? linking his youtube and asking people to watch his most popular videos would've sufficed. There's nothing to discuss except his funny commentary, which again doesn't warrant a thread in "strategy"
He does use some key Zerg abilities in subtly different ways to great effect. Definitely worth the watch.
As far as discussion, not really sure what to say for comments other than the fact that fungalfields are mostly going away in 1.3 and that saddens me. If they wanted to buff fungal, a flat 10 more damage would have done the trick.
The idea wasn't "oh look at how cool Destiny is", it's to discuss if you guys have used any of these different Zerg abilities in as Jermstuddog said: I greatly effective way. If you have any other tricks, we'd also love to hear them.
For instance: anyone using burrowed lings (not banes, though banes are obviously better) simply to cause tank friendly fire on marines?
Oh my god, I never thought it actually would, but that was so hilarious. I was just playing a ZvP on Backwater Gulch and I got distracted by a phone call and my pool was extremely late. Luckily, he was doing some kind of safe, sentry expand.
I got my first 6 lings out and figured... eh, might as well try the retard magnet.
Lo and behold his 2 sentries come RIGHT out of the base and go after the overlord. Followed it up with pure ling and roach and just rocked him.
Oh man, he didn't GG either. I felt kind of bad for the guy, even though I totally rubbed it in when it worked. So entertaining though. Here's the replay.
I didn't actually realise it was possible for someone to be so insufferable. Do you think he intentionally tries to be that repugnant, or does that just come naturally?
As far as the tricks go, I was impressed by how clean the ling/baneling strike was. I tend to try to run PAST the terran ball to prevent escape, while marching in with my banelings, but I can see that completely splitting up your lings and blings is far more effective.
'Baiting' with the overlord as seen in the video is something that I can see being situationally effective, but unfortunately relies on your opponent reacting poorly to the bait (i.e. sending all his stuff out to a dangerous position, as seen in the video). If he only sends out a single stalker, or 2 marines etc, you're just going to lose an overlord for no gain. On the other hand, sending in a 'bait' overlord to the back of a base to distract while you attempt to break the front is definitely something I'll try to use in future, because even if your opponent does the correct response of only sending a couple of units, that's a couple of units that aren't initially participating in the fight.
To add to the "fungal field" technique - if you do a drop/nydus in the main of your opponent, have an infestor rush straight for his ramp and fungal any units that come to defend (when they're on the ramp). This will completely block his army from advancing, and even 1-2 fungal growths can delay his defense long enough to cause a HUGE amount of extra damage. Sadly using fungal growth in this manner is going to become a lot less effective with the upcoming infestor changes.
Watching Destiny's stream along with Trumps, and Day[9] got me along nicely.
I started off like most people just going through the Dailies, though my zerg practice buddy, He's a plat Leaguer, so I was very intimidated when ever I faced zerg, watching Destiny made me understand the mechanics of Zerg players much better, and Trump, well in all honesty he hasn't done too much for me yet as far as learning goes, aside from reviewing one of his 2 hr lessons on 3rax :3 Went from 1st in silver to 1st in Gold today, so happy!
I'm not offended or anything, but his humor is really in bad taste. Also he sounds 10 years old. The combination of his image in my mind as a 10 year old and talking about wishing he was a rapist is disturbing
Send an OL to someone's base and put it a "little" too far in, then have it attempt to escape. He'll send his units to go kill it. Early game, he'll send a sentry.
Then you kill him because he can't get to his ramp in time.
I'm pretty sure the second one the Protoss was about to FE, was bringing out his army anyway..
While this was nothing mindblowing, there are lots of neat Zerg tricks such as: baneling drops, baneling mines, faking OL drops to put out position, ling runbys etc etc. and while no doubt Destiny has some great tricks, I think it would be better served to have a general 'zerg trick' thread compared to what just Destiny manages to conjure up.
Saw Leenock with the Fungal field thing. Don`t know why any of this is named after Destiny..Yay videos of him swearing....it`s funny...im glad im not 16 anymore....
The overlord magnet is something I did a ton in SC1 with my 12 pool speed build (which could often win vs fast CC, or win if they take the bait on a factory or rax build.
In SC2 I haven't been using it just because I found speedlings to be less unexpected and/or less useful, which is the opposite of what most people might think or expect when comparing SC1 and SC2.
The main factor is that walls are also ridiculously easier to do now, with stuff like easy protoss walls and forcefield, it's very difficult to do vs protoss (although it wasn't done at all vs protoss in SC1). With lowerable depots and pinhole chokes (double rax), crazy studder-stepping marines with 5 extra health, and possibly even more frequent double-rax builds than factory in SC2, I find it's overall not as effective to do, but I should maybe re-visit it, maybe an 11-12 overpool gas speedling or something.
I seriously love the rape reference because it's so outta left field. I watched it first time a few days ago and went "did he seriously make a rape reference?" and sure enough it was confirmed a minute later.
On March 17 2011 02:58 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: Saw Leenock with the Fungal field thing. Don`t know why any of this is named after Destiny..Yay videos of him swearing....it`s funny...im glad im not 16 anymore....
I dread the day that I don't find things like this funny.
On March 13 2011 01:47 dave333 wrote: retard magnet god i love destiny.
my only issue with that 3rd vid is...so destiny killed the whole army...but lost 2 hatches. now what? does he counterattack with lings? does he double expo and drone like hell froze over?
I'm always in that situation. I kill the whole terran army, obliterate it. and they leave.
then i'm....uhhh what would I have done had he stayed? i used up all my blings. would i have tried counterattacking with lings and mutas or something? i once played a game where the terran ONLY made marines and every time i killed his rine army, if i tried counterattacking, i would fight another like 20 and bunkers and so I had to eventually wait till i had brood lords.
It's just meant to be a cost-effective way to destroy a bio army, it's not meant to win you the game. After his army is dead, take an expo. Drone. Get tech. DON'T attack.
Okay something constructive: If you post videos, make sure there is no bad or childish language in it and if there is mute it before posting. Listening to this makes me ashamed of beeing human.
In addition to that there is nothing really new tactic wise in here: The use of fungal growth and its application is well known, ling surround before banelings too. The only gimmicky thing was maybe the overlord but ... I dont think its worth a thread. This thread does only contribute profanity language, it should be definitly not in the strategy section. I would like to see the quality of opening posts increasing.
On July 06 2011 04:19 Galaxy_Zerg wrote: This is fucking stupid. Nothing he did is "his" tricks
And his loud piercing nerd yells are fucking irritating
everything is his. didn't you see that 1 base infestor thing he did in ZvZ? or the destiny 230 food push? or destiny's 7 pool? they're all his tricks clearly
I was planning on posting this in here. It really is a good idea, but still quite the risk. He did a great job at doing it, and i really loved the opponents reaction on how the infestors got in his base. Also, he really should have canceled his third hatch. Hehe
The infestors hit squad is usually not useful because you can get borrow but against terran that build a line with tanks and turrets, I guess it can work really well. The problem with this is that it's like a terran drop, but you are really risking a lot of gas if it fails.
I tried doing the bro infestor hit squad thing, and it worked really well, but I almost died to a 2base roach-ling attack. I guess I probably shouldn't upgrade ovie speed, ovie drop, and pathogen glands at the same time haha.
I tried doing the bro infestor hit squad thing, and it worked really well, but I almost died to a 2base roach-ling attack. I guess I probably shouldn't upgrade ovie speed, ovie drop, and pathogen glands at the same time haha.
Remember what destiny said.
MORE SPINECRAWLERS and the four infestor hit squad.
Yeah, his YouTube account is remembertommorow0 for anyone who doesn't know. He really is an incredible player, and although while prone to rude remarks when the occasion calls for it, he plays with something called charisma. Something found less and less in the eSports community.
On July 06 2011 08:12 IzieBoy wrote: Dude, I just realized how good Destiny's multitask is. He is able to comment while playing and recording on FRAPS.
And types in his chat to the stream, and takes calls on skype with people, and occationally finds weird pictures :s loved it when he got CombatEx's facebook and myspace up on the stream while playing him ^^
I think the OP should be updated with the 4 infestor drop and maybe the infested terran wall against ultras. Oh and the baneling miles in that 2v2 with blue tea, hillarious!
I think the OP should be updated with the 4 infestor drop and maybe the infested terran wall against ultras. Oh and the baneling miles in that 2v2 with blue tea, hillarious!
the thing about the overlord magnet is i can only see this being effective in the early game where zerg can have a very large unit advantage... but in that situation destiny was all in anyways so the overlord magnet although was very effective requires an all innish nature to the build this "overlord magnet" will be encorporated into... But it will definately help all the cheesy zergs in the lower leagues... not saying there are tons but for those who do all in it will help ^^
On July 19 2011 15:37 mrpeanut wrote: the thing about the overlord magnet is i can only see this being effective in the early game where zerg can have a very large unit advantage... but in that situation destiny was all in anyways so the overlord magnet although was very effective requires an all innish nature to the build this "overlord magnet" will be encorporated into... But it will definately help all the cheesy zergs in the lower leagues... not saying there are tons but for those who do all in it will help ^^
it's not effective by any means because you wouldn't send your whole army to kill one overlord
On July 19 2011 15:37 mrpeanut wrote: the thing about the overlord magnet is i can only see this being effective in the early game where zerg can have a very large unit advantage... but in that situation destiny was all in anyways so the overlord magnet although was very effective requires an all innish nature to the build this "overlord magnet" will be encorporated into... But it will definately help all the cheesy zergs in the lower leagues... not saying there are tons but for those who do all in it will help ^^
it's not effective by any means because you wouldn't send your whole army to kill one overlord
Agreed, but if they don't send the whole army out, you don't send your whole army in and merely a few lings just to kill the stalker(s). Still a good trade for you.
And the fact that the ovie is a "RETARD MAGNET" (sorry I have to caps it to mimic destiny) is that if he attacks it, you can call him a retard, so it's a win-win situation for either case.
On July 19 2011 15:37 mrpeanut wrote: the thing about the overlord magnet is i can only see this being effective in the early game where zerg can have a very large unit advantage... but in that situation destiny was all in anyways so the overlord magnet although was very effective requires an all innish nature to the build this "overlord magnet" will be encorporated into... But it will definately help all the cheesy zergs in the lower leagues... not saying there are tons but for those who do all in it will help ^^
it's not effective by any means because you wouldn't send your whole army to kill one overlord
Funny thing about an overlord pull like this is it doesn't give you a lot of opportunity to make that descision. Enemy units are programmed to engage and pursue overlords like any other approaching hostile, but you get a minimap alert when you *take* damage, and you(I?) generally give lower attention priority to minimap blips when they're alone and not fast. So basically there's a 4 pixel dot in the bottom corner, none of the things that mean "panic time" happen, then seconds later half your army's down the ramp, the other half are jamming it, and you're ass deep in speedlings.
It's less "an overlord! 1-1-1 right-click a-click-a-click-a-click-a-click!!!", more "makin probes, oh a scout, makin pylons, makin stalkers, alright now what waOH SHI..."
On July 21 2011 02:56 Outofstims wrote: I don't know how you missed this one, Destiny's Subterranean Anal Assault (SAA) :
Subterranean Anal Assault? Surely that doesn't impress you, Outofstims. This is Teamliquid, shouldn't members take a little more than this shit to be impressed, have a higher standard?. This "subterranean Anal Assault" is just burrowed roaches, Destiny giving a sugary name doesn't make it anymore innovative.
On July 21 2011 02:56 Outofstims wrote: I don't know how you missed this one, Destiny's Subterranean Anal Assault (SAA) :
Subterranean Anal Assault? Surely that doesn't impress you, Outofstims. This is Teamliquid, shouldn't members take a little more than this shit to be impressed, have a higher standard?. This "subterranean Anal Assault" is just burrowed roaches, Destiny giving a sugary name doesn't make it anymore innovative.
I'm not saying it's innovative, I'm saying it's amazingly entertaining...Read before you post!
On July 21 2011 02:56 Outofstims wrote: I don't know how you missed this one, Destiny's Subterranean Anal Assault (SAA) :
Subterranean Anal Assault? Surely that doesn't impress you, Outofstims. This is Teamliquid, shouldn't members take a little more than this shit to be impressed, have a higher standard?. This "subterranean Anal Assault" is just burrowed roaches, Destiny giving a sugary name doesn't make it anymore innovative.
I'm not saying it's innovative, I'm saying it's amazingly entertaining...Read before you post!
I did read, you didn't write anything, how am i to know you're not 'impressed'.
EPT
