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JackOscar
Sweden50 Posts
Just wondering if someone could give me some basic guideline on zerg scouting. Mainly: When should you generally send in a sacrificial overlord against P and T and what would you mainly look for (and what does this thing indicate) ? And also, at what supply should I send a scouting drone against all the races? Thanks | ||
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1Lamb1Rice
United States435 Posts
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
Generally send the overlord to the nearest base on a map with changing positions. It works well against zerg because the overlord can see the creep, but the hatchery can't see the overlord. Thusly, you know where he is, and he might not have sent an overlord your way. Against protoss it's simple to scout because he won't get AA until Cybercore tech. against terran, turn back AS SOON AS YOU SEE THE CC, he might not notice the ovy darting in and out of his field of range for half a second. Marines slaughter overlords due to their mind numbing sluggishness. | ||
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JackOscar
Sweden50 Posts
i.e what does 2 gas indicate and stuff like that. | ||
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enemy2010
Germany1972 Posts
Better invest in an overseer or learn to read your opponents next steps by looking at his front/units.... Maybe learn to poke around his base (not INTO his base) with your overlords. I would always avoid to suicide units. | ||
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lagbzz
Poland171 Posts
vs Z 9 drone scout vs P,T 14 drone scout 1 ovie near enemy base on 2 player maps like xel naga (to the air space on the right), on 4 player maps I send it vertically, or to the close by air main. 2nd ovie goes to my natural to spot for bunkers/proxies/pylons and stuff, but you also can move it somewhere more useful, since there's actually nothing important to see  .You want to overlord scout at around 30 food, if you don't know exactly what guy is doing, if you poke up the ramp and see a CC, or nexus in the natural, then you don't really need to sac an ovie, save it to later. Collossi most likely come out at like 10minute mark. Against Terran, hmm a lot to write about. Possible scenarios on the top of my mind are: -2 rax opening If he is going 2 rax, there's a big possibility that he will put some pressure on you, and expand at the same time, so when you see that he backed off, poke with lings, if he denies your ling scouting, sac an ovie right there. -reactor hellions Poke with lings to see the factory with a reactor addon, react, and if you are unable to scout his transition, since he will have map control, sac an ovie. -1rax 2 depot wallin, no aggression - sac an ovie at 30 food. You can be pretty sure he is going bancheese if you see a bunker. -1rax 1 depot on the bottom of the ramp sac an ovie, because almost all the info is denied. Also, you should try to deduce certain things like: If he has marauders, banshees are almost impossible, they will be delayed at least. If you see an observer in a ZvP after he expanded, that's not a 6gate allin, sice he has a robo, you should sac an ovie soon to see his collossi tech. There are also 4gate indicators, like 1 gas, chrono almost always on cyber core, energy saved up on the nexus, just remember that chronoboost is the most important indicator, since he can go 2 gas 4gate, also with zealot, sentry 1st. You should always grab your initial 2/4 lings and tell them to check possible pylon placement spots on the map. If you suspect a 4gate, then sac an ovie relatively early at around 25 food, since on 30 you will be already dead(considering that drones only were built), if the guy won't botch the timing. You should also look at things like blink, high templars, chargelots, and tier 2 and 3 upgrades, since they indicate the potential of DT tech (because of the twilight council already up). A lot of protosses have the habit of going for DTs when they get their 3rd (even pros like incontrol  ) You should sac an ovie if that is the case (get overlord speed pretty quick unless he goes allin, then you need to spend the gas on units to defend right).Overlord speed will also give you the ability to spot drops, and denying opponent's expanding through pooping creep. If you are the greediest guy I've ever seen, you can do it with slow overlords too .At last, even if he has a marine or a stalker on the edge of the base, sac it anyways, since many people build tech near the edges thinking that 1 marine 2 shots an overlord... I highly advise you to check some pro reps, they have some unique overlord scouting patterns, especially on the old maps. Sorry for a lot of grammar mistakes (I think so :p). The format isn't that sexy too, hopefully it will help you though. | ||
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ishboh
United States954 Posts
in zvz its pretty much standard to have an OL highway from your base to theirs to see incoming lings/roaches zvp and zvt its standard to place overlords on all their expos and spew creep to delay their expansions | ||
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PeZuY
935 Posts
What there might be? Banshees are the biggest worry as zerg vs terran if you haven't made any detection or early AA. One banshee will always win one queen. General rule which should be remembered, if you see fast starport with techlab, make few extra queens just in case. In ZvP the main reason for scouting is to scout 4 gate, dark shrine or early stargate. Phoenix harrass seems to be a trend nowadays and they can easily kill queens if protoss player is making them. In any case if you do see early stargate or starport with techlab you should expect early agression. Either its banshees or phoenix/voidray. Thats why reacting with queens to early air is VERY important. | ||
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Sega92
United States467 Posts
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RedBarchetta
49 Posts
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sooch
Canada299 Posts
vT: If you manage to get into his base with your drone, steal gas to delay banshees/blue flame and force his marines to stay at home. If you don't, wait till around 5:00 to sac your OL and pay extra attention to what and where the addons are, and if they're active or not. A few examples would be - lots of barracks where 1 has a tech lab that's active - stim timing. 2 fact, one with researching tech lab - blue flame. There are other things to look for, but you really need to experience them for yourself. | ||
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
On March 08 2011 04:58 JackOscar wrote: What I'm mainly wondering is when you should generally send in the overlord to see wich tech path he's going at like the 5-10 minute mark, only more precise and what you should look for at that point. i.e what does 2 gas indicate and stuff like that. There's lots of things to look for when you scout protoss early game. These are general guidelines, and not 100% guaranteed rules. drone scout: -2 gas indicates he won't be doing zealot/stalker 4gate, as this type of 4gate uses 1 gas -seeing no CB being used on nexus usually means a 4gate attack -pylon at nat usually means FE -forge means he could try to cannon you, so look for pylon at your ramp or behind your nat minerals -2nd gate before gas obviously means 2 gate -nothing in his base means 2gate proxy, so scout outside near your base overlord scout, usually at 5:00-5:15, together with constantly ling scouting the ramp: -more than 2 sentries and warpgates means 3 gate sentry expand (check the ramp with lings to see if he puts pylon at bottom of ramp or near nat area) -multiple stalkers usually means blink stalkers. Of course, seeing a twilight council also means blink stalkers -stargate means either 3 gate void, or phoenix - look at number of gateways and/or army (lots of stalkers -> 3 gate void, lots of zealots -> 1 base phoenix) -robo-bay means either 3gate immortal, or warp prism drop/warp-in. I guess it could also mean 1 base colossus, but this is rare, and not a very good build -seeing a twilight council upgrading with CB is almost guaranteed blink stalkers (the only other thing it could mean is 1 base chargelot LOL). If you see the twilight council, but notice that it's not upgrading anything, then it could be a sign of fast DT. scout with lings to spot a proxy dark shrine somewhere That's all I can think of, but better players probably have more subtle clues they can spot | ||
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DustyShelf
United Kingdom111 Posts
The issue with saccing an ovie is that it might not get to scout (it might be killed pretty quick) so I don't think its something you _always_ want to do, it also costs 100 mins. Try and read the build of the gasses (when you drone scout) and the buildings and add-ons you can see at the front (using a ling). If there is any confusion or complete lack of information (for example, a bunker on the ramp or just a vanilla rax with a handful of marines) go for the sacrifice to see if you can get more information. You could also gas steal to control the type of builds that are possible for a Terran or Toss. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
It's extremely common for your first Overlord to be sent to a good position so that it can scout his main around 30 food or whenever you need to be sure of a 1-base timing attack (like a 4 Gate). Better players anticipate this and can catch your Overlord on the map and punish it with a Marine/Stalker but this is map specific. It's also common (except in ZvZ) to send your second Overlord to your natural so it can spot for kooky shit while your Hatch is building (Bunkers/Cannons). After your Hatch is up you should probably move this Overlord to a safer/more beneficial position. After that it's more situational. Unless your opponent has Vikings/Phoenix/Mutas, feel free to spread your Overlords all over the place, spotting for troop movements, ringing his base, and spewing creep at all of his possible expansion locations, which aside from notifying you of when he tries to expand, severely slows down that expansion because creep takes forever to disappear. In ZvZ you can get away with placing Overlords over open ground until he has Mutas/Hydras out. This makes it extremely easy to spot incoming attacks. In ZvT and ZvP you have to be a little more creative and place them over high ground/open space so that they are harder to snipe. Overlord speed is an essential upgrade in the mid-game if you do this, since the chance of him having a spotter/air superiority unit increases and you don't want to lose 3-4 Overlords and get supply blocked while he is on his way to your base for a timing push. | ||
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