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zergrushkekeke
Australia241 Posts
I was thinking if you can sneak a drone and an overlord into or close to the opponents base you can build a nydus netowrk there, some spines straight away, and you dont get the "RRRRAWWR!" give away. The only downside it it costs more. and you need the drones to get there somehow. I wouldn't recommend getting drop just for this, maybe sneak a drone in earlier in the game and forget about it till about the 8 minute mark. | ||
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Tracedragon
United States948 Posts
If they can, this raises some pretty interesting options... | ||
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ToastieNL
Netherlands845 Posts
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Legato096
United States2 Posts
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
Step two. at lair tech, make the overlord generate creep in the back door area. Build nydus network at base and there. Aquire army. Step three. Put queen into the network, and make it plant a tumor in the ovys creep. step four. Build spine crawlers around the general area and push with army. step 5, enjoy his rage.  | ||
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HeidstroM
England33 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11686 Posts
On March 04 2011 06:29 exploding.godhand wrote: Step one. Sneak drone in, send overlord ALLL THE way over there at the start, don't let him see it. Step two. at lair tech, make the overlord generate creep in the back door area. Build nydus network at base and there. Aquire army. Step three. Put queen into the network, and make it plant a tumor in the ovys creep. step four. Build spine crawlers around the general area and push with army. step 5, enjoy his rage. You can do this faster by building a hatchery in your enemies base. Also, it is more fun. | ||
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zergrushkekeke
Australia241 Posts
On March 04 2011 06:22 Legato096 wrote: I think he meant build the spines with the nydus with overlord creep? Yea i meant that since creeps there from the get go, not form completion it would be easier to get some static defense up. I would not recommend getting drop tech and nydus networks unless you are 1 hour into some epic game as even 1 of those is usually not worth the gas. I was demoing this on YABOT but didn't set the map up right and ran out of time. The idea of getting drones into position means you can't put the nydus right at the back of his base, you have to use it to either open up another attack path or a closer position to attack from. If they spot one of the networks and you no longer have the element of surprise you can start making worms, another one right next to the network, one at each expo, maybe one in their base, or just park an overlord and creep spread to keep them on their toes. The only thing I hate about nydus is usually it's success depends on them not scouting it before it's done. This way you can check out the area before investing anything, start the close nydus the same time as the one in base and not get it scouted before its spewing units out. The investment still means this is something to throw in close to 200/200. | ||
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michaelhasanalias
Korea (South)1231 Posts
If you think you can exploit it, by all means. Even good players mess up sometimes. But you need to have a tactic that exploits a weakness when you see it, such that your move is reactionary. It sounds good in theory, but I guess all Nydus-related strategies do. | ||
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
On March 04 2011 15:45 michaelhasanalias wrote: You're implying that you can sneak it in at all. If you can, that means the player you're playing against isn't good enough to have full vision of his base by 8-10 minutes into his game. If you think you can exploit it, by all means. Even good players mess up sometimes. But you need to have a tactic that exploits a weakness when you see it, such that your move is reactionary. It sounds good in theory, but I guess all Nydus-related strategies do. Lost temple, and I think shattered temple too, have a giant area in the back of the base. (the south for the west base, the north for the east base etc.) This area is basically a nydus worms best friend. I've even seen players who go hellion drops, actually drop in this area and run the hellions to the mineral line, so as to avoid missile turrets placed in the ml. Lost temple and blistering sands are the only maps that you *might* be able to do this on, because jungle basin and most of the other 1v1 maps don't have that dedicated drop area. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
The armor and extra health will rarely, if ever make the difference between keeping it alive and not, and the point is to let you move your troops there quickly to deal with drops before they land (overlord spreading and vision to see the drop coming, get your troops out there) and it should never be an issue. On the offensive front, it's risky. For one thing, I believe the nydus network takes a lot longer to build than the worm does, meaning they have more time to respond. It's also more expensive (I think), and once it's out, the real danger is that they'll defeat your troops, rather than kill the worm. Usually the troops that come out guard the worm. The worm's hp and armor only really matter if the enemy spots it before it's completed. EDIT: also, ideally your forces will be in the network, so that the moment the worm finishes you'll be piling out. The worm scream won't really help your opponent, because it'll take all of 5 seconds for your troops to reveal themselves. | ||
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morimacil
France921 Posts
If you want to build a network in their base, then you need to actually have an overlord over their base, drop a drone there, spew some creep, start building on the creep, and then have your opponent not notice it for 50 seconds instead of 20. Its rather easy for your opponent to notice just a worm building, within the 20 seconds. But for him to not notice the overlord spewing creep, the drone being dropped, and then not notice the building for a full 50 seconds? You might as well just go in through the front door, hope he didnt wall off, and hope he doesnt notice you. | ||
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
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NoisyNinja
United States991 Posts
OP, on Shattered Temple, if they spawn on the west spawn point, then you can hide a drone in the trees all game long and if they didn't see it at the beginning, then you are fine as long as they don't send an army unit or cannon there. By the way, why not proxy a hatchery and then mass spine crawlers behind their mineral line (assuming they aren't Terran, who can just fly away). | ||
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djdoodoo
United Kingdom192 Posts
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coolarj10
United States2 Posts
It's like a stealth operation. Here's an alternative suggestion that I've tried a few times and is pretty nice: Build two nydus networks in your base. Now, you can build two nydus worms simultaneously. You can build a nydus worm in one end of your opponents base, keep him/her distracted, and build another at the same time. You can pop send your army out of the one with minimal resistance. Also, I'm pretty sure only one nydus worm sound occurs when they are built within a certain amount of time of each other. For those that don't know: no matter how many nydus network buildings and nydus worms you create, you actually only have one "network." In other words, any units that go into one nydus network can pop out of the other nydus network or nydus worm. This strategy means you don't have to worry about the hassle of hiding a drone and an overlord, and is a technique you can add to your match, rather than making it the entire focus. I'm curious to see what you guys think! | ||
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darkscream
Canada2310 Posts
This is not an early game or an all-in technique. This is a mid-to-late game technique when you opponent has 3+ bases, especially if they've got a slow army like protoss deathball or terran mech. I pop one out in the main, one out on their furthest natural, and try to bait their main army to the middle of the map somewhere. I dump lings out of both worms. If he doesn't deal with them his tech and economy is over. This usually leads to a base-trade mentality though, so the key is still having an decent army at home to delay. I like infestors for this purpose. Anyways, the point is, more than one canal lets you build more than one worm, so you can do multi-pronged attacks with a buncha suicidal lings. It's kind of like having 2-3 dropships dumping marines out and about the same cost, except if your opponent doesn't respond quickly enough you get creep and buildings in their base. | ||
iHirO
United Kingdom1381 Posts
 Seriously lets think about this for a second: - You don't need an overlord to provide creep, so its stealthier and possibly faster. - It doesn't create creep, so less chance of it being spotted. - You have 850 HP vs 200 HP of a worm, so even if spotted its much harder to snipe and can be cancelled before it dies. - Theres the potential for double nydus worm, either to confuse an opponent, ramp block to prevent worker escape or reinforce/retreat twice as fast. - Best of all no ROAR! Your banelings can be in the mineral line before the other player can even react. Now the downsides: - Its an extra 200 minerals and 100 gas (drone + hatch cancel + extra network) which is like 3 roaches missing in the early game... a big deal! - Takes an extra 30 seconds to build, so the chance of being spotted is higher. - Its gonna die slowly without creep unless a worm is spawned next to it. Playing around with Evolution Chamber, I can get 7 slow roaches or 12 speedlings and 6 banelings into the opposition base before the 7 minute mark. This could be a really effective way of punishing fast expands on macro maps like Crevasse but it has to do economic damage to compensate for the amount of gas it requires. For added sneakiness, hide the other Nydus Network using an overlord generating creep to prevent Observers/scans finding them. | ||
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eXwOn
Canada351 Posts
On March 04 2011 06:29 exploding.godhand wrote: Step one. Sneak drone in, send overlord ALLL THE way over there at the start, don't let him see it. Step two. at lair tech, make the overlord generate creep in the back door area. Build nydus network at base and there. Aquire army. Step three. Put queen into the network, and make it plant a tumor in the ovys creep. step four. Build spine crawlers around the general area and push with army. step 5, enjoy his rage. I was wondering why you would need an overlord, creep AND drone, until I realized the genius of it. I love this idea OP! :D | ||
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GreatFall
United States1061 Posts
EDIT: Wow, ok so what you are saying is that you never build an 'exit' canal, you just build the nydius building itself. You never get a rawr. Wow, this may work man.... though I must say it would have to take some seriously bad scouting by your opponent not to see the drone in his base until well into lair tech. But please post a replay here if you pull it off I would die to see that. In fact PM me when you do it and let me know right away so I can watch the replay. I would die of laughter if you pulled it off on some poor guy! Good find haha. | ||
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
On March 04 2011 06:29 exploding.godhand wrote: Step one. Sneak drone in, send overlord ALLL THE way over there at the start, don't let him see it. Step two. at lair tech, make the overlord generate creep in the back door area. Build nydus network at base and there. Aquire army. Step three. Put queen into the network, and make it plant a tumor in the ovys creep. step four. Build spine crawlers around the general area and push with army. step 5, enjoy his rage. You forgot step 6: Hope that the toss/terran dosen't scout his base for 5 mins in a raw. | ||
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Djinx
18 Posts
[QUOTE]On March 04 2011 06:22 Legato096 wrote: I think he meant build the spines with the nydus with overlord creep?[/QUOTE] Yea i meant that since creeps there from the get go, not form completion it would be easier to get some static defense up. I would not recommend getting drop tech and nydus networks unless you are 1 hour into some epic game as even 1 of those is usually not worth the gas. Dude you can always sack up 4-5 unitts for 1 upgrade, and as long they are zerg it wont change the game a lot. While you can always drop banes on workers or counteratack with drop. Zerg still don;t use drop at all, which I think is the main reason they whine about how imbalanced and turtlelly are the other races, I guess you all watched Moon vs Squirtle on Shakuras or if you hadn;t please go watch it and see how drop can change the game. | ||
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flyingbangus
United States121 Posts
What was my point? Oh yeah, IMO on a ZvZ, better off building the exit than the nydus network. In ZvT or ZvP, I can see this work on sniping a 3rd or 4th base in the rare occassion that the game actually goes that far. Also, if you really want to hit the main, I feel like ovie drops are easier to execute. BTW - it feels good to drop a Terran main =P "Taste of your own medicine, bro!" | ||
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OverZero
United States271 Posts
Or alternatively you could put one exit down in his main, then put another exit up in his natural. So this way the first would pull his attention in one direction as the other comes up. | ||
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DaCruise
Denmark2457 Posts
Hope the link works. I have been using double nydus worms lately against protoss and with great succés. I use my first nydus to get in his main. It works because the protoss usually has all his army clustered up and rarely gets to kill the nydus before it pops. Imediatly after popping put a second one down at his other base. I am doing this on a timer before his deathball gets out. The drone idea doesnt sound very realistic to me tbh. Pros: -You wont have much trouble with forcefields unless the toss is really competent -You can retreat if his army is too strong -His army will not be positioned very well. Neither will yours but its not as important as for toss. -This timing attack will often straight out kill the toss, but if it doesnt its still a great way of harrasing and you can freely take the map while the toss is pined in his base looking for overlords Cons: The protoss can kill the nydus before it pops................... | ||
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