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On March 02 2011 09:34 morimacil wrote:Show nested quote +You loose utility and gain DPS, yet you can maintain utility if you increase your infestor numbers, and why wouldnt you since they do more dps to begin with? Show nested quote +You can't see situations where 1 infestor would be better with PTR fungal, but maybe you could with 4 more infestors in a big battle? Show nested quote +So what does this mean? If we get more infestors and use more Fungals we do more damage with them over a shorter period of time. Yay! This is all nice, but it still all relies on somehow magically having more infestors. I know that having extra units is good. 2 units > 1 unit. 10 infestors > 1 infestor. Infestors are still not free.
I'm starting to think that you're trolling... Or are you really this thick?
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I dont like this.
I would consider taking 8 second stun with no damage and instant cast rather than this garbage.
- Damage will not be good vs protoss units.
- Damage will own terran bio. BUT
- Infestors cant stop drops now - you need absolutely need mutas - no gas for infestors for a long time.
I think infestors will dissappear from my play. Which is sad 
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United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On March 02 2011 18:40 Kyuki wrote:
Ofc the projectile change is a nerf, but instant cast fungal denied Air FAR too well. If you have infestors around, you CANNOT use your Phoenix, or your mutas AT ALL for its purpose.
It's one thing that you dance around storm, poke around thors and take some damage etc, but beeing locked down for 8 seconds and not beeing able to do anything about the actual cast besides praying that the opponent misses is a design flaw that is beeing changed and in turn they had to make the spell stronger DPS wise so it wouldn be useless. And now it's more useful in other situations instead.
It's a give and take situation. Better players will be better att using fungal. Hurray!
And people still argue how it's a nerf using the infestor as it's used today... Seriously take what you are given at look at the possibilities. So much ignorance it's sad...
Alot of good will come out of this. Some people mention better dynamic on the different matchups and I totally agree.
Zerg lacks good ground/air based AA. both hydras and Corrupter are too slow or don't have enough range, and this is why you need FG to lockdown the air (specially late game when you have T3 tech!!), Zerg units are designed this way to have synergy with FG.
Infestors have a specific utility role as a support for T3 units!! without the lockdown zerg T3 will go down the drain. PERIOD
I don't understand why non-zerg players come here spew garbage when they have no clue of the role of infestor /or have played around with the new infestor !!
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Your rage is exactly my point. You can still use its utility, but you need something to support it to make it as useful in THAT regard. As you said, the synergy is still there, you just dont get the leeway to have _8_ seconds to catch up to whatever drop and air harass, but need to be on your toes.
You claim it HAS A ROLE, and CANNOT do anything else. Well here you go, you have a added role for it - deal with it and adapt.
I love how zerg players come here and spew shit ALL day long about EVERYTHING that is zerg related and think that when there is someone that says something positive about the race they don't play the race. Ignorance is awesome.
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United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On March 02 2011 19:11 Kyuki wrote:
Your rage is exactly my point. You can still use its utility, but you need something to support it to make it as useful in THAT regard. As you said, the synergy is still there, you just dont get the leeway to have _8_ seconds to catch up to whatever drop and air harass, but need to be on your toes.
You claim it HAS A ROLE, and CANNOT do anything else. Well here you go, you have a added role for it - deal with it and adapt.
I love how zerg players come here and spew shit ALL day long about EVERYTHING that is zerg related and think that when there is someone that says something positive about the race they don't play the race. Ignorance is awesome.
ROFL, what are you even saying? you are not even making any sense. You are arguing for the sake of arguing and not the argument, seems to me like a troll statement.
Why do you come here when you have no clue about the prepatch infestor role or what postpatch infestor role might be, you clearly don't play zerg nor do you have understanding of their role
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On March 02 2011 18:54 Arir wrote:
- Infestors cant stop drops now - you need absolutely need mutas - no gas for infestors for a long time.
Alternatively, you can do what every Terran and Toss player has to do vs zerg and make some well-placed static defense. Most T bases take, what? 500 minerals to defend with a PF and 3 or 4 Turrets? Look at ways to pull off the same defense for cost as a Z.
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Look at ways to pull off the same defense for cost as a Z.
for this cost you get al lil less than 3 spines, which get obliterated by the "standard" 8 marine or 4 marauder (or a mix) drop, while your planetary makes a push in that direction just not worth it...
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United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On March 02 2011 19:46 Charon1979 wrote:for this cost you get al lil less than 3 spines, which get obliterated by the "standard" 8 marine or 4 marauder (or a mix) drop, while your planetary makes a push in that direction just not worth it...
Not only that, Also a usual ZvT ends up to 5base vs 3base, so you need what 5spine preemptive crawlers for those 5bases? (because drop tech is part of bio play). That can not be said about turrets as they are only used if the zerg is going mutalisk.
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On March 02 2011 19:33 Gunman_csz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 19:11 Kyuki wrote:
Your rage is exactly my point. You can still use its utility, but you need something to support it to make it as useful in THAT regard. As you said, the synergy is still there, you just dont get the leeway to have _8_ seconds to catch up to whatever drop and air harass, but need to be on your toes.
You claim it HAS A ROLE, and CANNOT do anything else. Well here you go, you have a added role for it - deal with it and adapt.
I love how zerg players come here and spew shit ALL day long about EVERYTHING that is zerg related and think that when there is someone that says something positive about the race they don't play the race. Ignorance is awesome. ROFL, what are you even saying? you are not even making any sense. You are arguing for the sake of arguing and not the argument, seems to me like a troll statement. Why do you come here when you have no clue about the prepatch infestor role or what postpatch infestor role might be, you clearly don't play zerg nor do you have understanding of their role
Just because you can't grasp simple things and can't argue your opinion besides saying "I've tired this and it's bad!" (which is a horrible argument) indicates more that You are trolling, not me.
In this thread you've only stated what we already know. It's worse at doing what it does today, yet you don't seem to have even tried to utilize the spell in a different way, and keep crying nerf. No shit...
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Ha ha and now it will turn into a balance/race thread. Guys...Seriously.
The video i linked in the precedent page is not to show if it's a nerf or a buf, it's not to show that fungal is OP or UP regarding the army cost etc...It's to show the spell in some actual games so we can have a better idea of the changes, period. It's not a pro game, diamond/master according to the author. That's all.
Now as he stated, it's harder to catch flying units. Blizzard want that for a long time i think ( there was a change on fungal that started a shitstorm i you remember as it was only ground effective ), so yeah , it will be harder to catch banshee, but most off all muta/phoenix. I also have some doubts about hellion. So in that regard, it's a nerf.
Now lets face it, the damage are enormous. It completely destroy gateway ball ( and i don't see how force feald would change that fact considering the range of fungal ), neural a tank is way more easy and as the author say, he's not used to the missile micro ( nor as his opponents ) so it will change in both way ( better anticipation, and some micro to avoid it ).
Like it or not, if that change hit the official server, you'll have to adapt and change or go trolling and QQing on blizzard forums. Now make your choice.
Everything other that those fact is theory crafting, will it be harder to stop a drop ? Probably, but once the bio troups will be landed, a fungal will crush them so i don't think this is the hardest point.
Imo, flying units and speed hellions will be the tricky one, so we'll have to change our response, add some roaches for hellions ( where fungal/speeling were sufficient ) corrutpors/hydra/queens for phoenixes...Idk, but i like the idee overall, cause it makes the infestor more playable in all macth up specially in ZvP. This change may completely change the meta game ( ghost/feedback etc...), and i like that, it's mean that blizzard is considering that the game can evolve a lot, and it's a good thing imo.
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On March 02 2011 20:12 Super_bricklayer wrote:
Ha ha and now it will turn into a balance/race thread. Guys...Seriously.
The video i linked in the precedent page is not to show if it's a nerf or a buf, it's not to show that fungal is OP or UP regarding the army cost etc...It's to show the spell in some actual games so we can have a better idea of the changes, period. It's not a pro game, diamond/master according to the author. That's all.
Now as he stated, it's harder to catch flying units. Blizzard want that for a long time i think ( there was a change on fungal that started a shitstorm i you remember as it was only ground effective ), so yeah , it will be harder to catch banshee, but most off all muta/phoenix. I also have some doubts about hellion. So in that regard, it's a nerf.
Now lets face it, the damage are enormous. It completely destroy gateway ball ( and i don't see how force feald would change that fact considering the range of fungal ), neural a tank is way more easy and as the author say, he's not used to the missile micro ( nor as his opponents ) so it will change in both way ( better anticipation, and some micro to avoid it ).
Like it or not, if that change hit the official server, you'll have to adapt and change or go trolling and QQing on blizzard forums. Now make your choice.
Everything other that those fact is theory crafting, will it be harder to stop a drop ? Probably, but once the bio troups will be landed, a fungal will crush them so i don't think this is the hardest point.
Imo, flying units and speed hellions will be the tricky one, so we'll have to change our response, add some roaches for hellions ( where fungal/speeling were sufficient ) corrutpors/hydra/queens for phoenixes...Idk, but i like the idee overall, cause it makes the infestor more playable in all macth up specially in ZvP. This change may completely change the meta game ( ghost/feedback etc...), and i like that, it's mean that blizzard is considering that the game can evolve a lot, and it's a good thing imo.
Exactly. Good post.
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United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On March 02 2011 20:09 Kyuki wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 19:33 Gunman_csz wrote:On March 02 2011 19:11 Kyuki wrote:
Your rage is exactly my point. You can still use its utility, but you need something to support it to make it as useful in THAT regard. As you said, the synergy is still there, you just dont get the leeway to have _8_ seconds to catch up to whatever drop and air harass, but need to be on your toes.
You claim it HAS A ROLE, and CANNOT do anything else. Well here you go, you have a added role for it - deal with it and adapt.
I love how zerg players come here and spew shit ALL day long about EVERYTHING that is zerg related and think that when there is someone that says something positive about the race they don't play the race. Ignorance is awesome. ROFL, what are you even saying? you are not even making any sense. You are arguing for the sake of arguing and not the argument, seems to me like a troll statement. Why do you come here when you have no clue about the prepatch infestor role or what postpatch infestor role might be, you clearly don't play zerg nor do you have understanding of their role Just because you can't grasp simple things and can't argue your opinion besides saying "I've tired this and it's bad!" (which is a horrible argument) indicates more that You are trolling, not me. In this thread you've only stated what we already know. It's worse at doing what it does today, yet you don't seem to have even tried to utilize the spell in a different way, and keep crying nerf. No shit...
Again, what gives you the authority to speak about something you have no idea of.
How many times do I have to repeat this? "You don't play zerg nor have you tried the infestor pre/post patch".
This is what you sound like: Oh Blizzard removed forcefield from sentries, now lets see how can we utilize that  LOL. Blizzard has effectively slashed the utility of infestors, they served way more purpose with the lock-down then they will now with "faster" dps / projectile.
The "only" function they serve now is dps burst in big battles hence their utilization has been nerfed
PS: Keep on spamming the forums to increase your post count
EDIT: Secondly I am not QQing / arguing that blizzard shouldn't implement this change, but rather stating that this is not a buff at all as the title suggests, nor it is a good change.
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On February 26 2011 15:48 Cloesd wrote:
This seems a little Overpowered.
38 damage over 4 seconds, is... 9dps... That's the DPS of a spine crawler for 4 seconds.
What essentially happens when you fungal growth an army (non-armoured) is, every unit that is hit takes Spinecrawler DPS for four seconds on TOP of whatever else you have hitting them.
If something else is hitting them, (Probably hydralisks)... any marine hit by this is gaurenteed to die. If the marines decide to STIM, they are going to die so fast to this... you have -10hp from the stim, -15hp from a hydralisk shot, and -9hp from the first tick of fungal.. this is 35 damage done in the first second, 1 second later is 45 (regular marines die) 1 second later is 55 damage (shielded marines die). (This is not counting the hydralisk hits for the 2nd, 3rd and fouth ticks, but also discounts medivac healing.).
Marines are dead.
Maybe this will make a Terran think about teching from marines to be able to win games?
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While I totally agree with your statements concerning drops, tanks und gateway balls, I have to point a few things out.
1) There already pretty strong compositions against toss gateway units. The problem here are the colossi (+ VR and/or HT). Gateway units are just a meatshield here while other units deal the damage. Maybe the gateway ball will melt faster, but FG dmg is a one trick pony like PSIstorm. Once depleted, the infestor becomes useless (unlike HT).
2) ZvZ will become a "lets look who can bring his mutas faster" because without pinning them you cant ever leave your base. Hydras/corruptors are WAY to slow to defend/attack
3) Same with phoenix play. Corruptors/Hydras are way to slow und massing up queens/spores seems like a overcommitment
4) Stim marines! A Unit that can actually kite every zerg unit to death. FG was mostly used to pin them that banelings get a chance to hit them. I dont feel like the new fungal can actually hit a stimed ball of marines. Haveing to use Speedlings first to pin the marines that fungal can hit sees like a waste of infestors - once pinned banelings can also do the job.
Same concern like 1) depleted infestors (and the will be drained very quickly) are a waste of supply
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On March 02 2011 20:27 Gunman_csz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 20:09 Kyuki wrote:On March 02 2011 19:33 Gunman_csz wrote:On March 02 2011 19:11 Kyuki wrote:
Your rage is exactly my point. You can still use its utility, but you need something to support it to make it as useful in THAT regard. As you said, the synergy is still there, you just dont get the leeway to have _8_ seconds to catch up to whatever drop and air harass, but need to be on your toes.
You claim it HAS A ROLE, and CANNOT do anything else. Well here you go, you have a added role for it - deal with it and adapt.
I love how zerg players come here and spew shit ALL day long about EVERYTHING that is zerg related and think that when there is someone that says something positive about the race they don't play the race. Ignorance is awesome. ROFL, what are you even saying? you are not even making any sense. You are arguing for the sake of arguing and not the argument, seems to me like a troll statement. Why do you come here when you have no clue about the prepatch infestor role or what postpatch infestor role might be, you clearly don't play zerg nor do you have understanding of their role Just because you can't grasp simple things and can't argue your opinion besides saying "I've tired this and it's bad!" (which is a horrible argument) indicates more that You are trolling, not me. In this thread you've only stated what we already know. It's worse at doing what it does today, yet you don't seem to have even tried to utilize the spell in a different way, and keep crying nerf. No shit... Again, what gives you the authority to speak about something you have no idea of. How many times do I have to repeat this? "You don't play zerg nor have you tried the infestor pre/post patch". This is what you sound like: Oh Blizzard removed forcefield from sentries, now lets see how can we utilize that LOL. Blizzard has effectively slashed the utility of infestors, they served way more purpose with the lock-down then they will now with "faster" dps / projectile. The "only" function they serve now is dps burst in big battles hence their utilization has been nerfed PS: Keep on spamming the forums to increase your post count
Haha, you're a funny guy. Authority? Do I need authority to speak of balance changes? If that's the case then who has authority? Everyone who plays Zerg? Haha jesus christ, you're funny.
Wtf man you really can't argue :s. "Blizzard removes force field from sentries let's see how we can utilize that". Did they remove fungal? Did they remove the immobilization? Your comparison is fucking horrible :s
Stick to your belief and see how others adapt and become better players while you lag behind and keep crying like the rest of the noobs. gl
And yeah I spam alot to get my postcount "high". Research is your friend...
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On March 02 2011 20:12 Super_bricklayer wrote:
Ha ha and now it will turn into a balance/race thread. Guys...Seriously.
The video i linked in the precedent page is not to show if it's a nerf or a buf, it's not to show that fungal is OP or UP regarding the army cost etc...It's to show the spell in some actual games so we can have a better idea of the changes, period. It's not a pro game, diamond/master according to the author. That's all.
Now as he stated, it's harder to catch flying units. Blizzard want that for a long time i think ( there was a change on fungal that started a shitstorm i you remember as it was only ground effective ), so yeah , it will be harder to catch banshee, but most off all muta/phoenix. I also have some doubts about hellion. So in that regard, it's a nerf.
Now lets face it, the damage are enormous. It completely destroy gateway ball ( and i don't see how force feald would change that fact considering the range of fungal ), neural a tank is way more easy and as the author say, he's not used to the missile micro ( nor as his opponents ) so it will change in both way ( better anticipation, and some micro to avoid it ).
Like it or not, if that change hit the official server, you'll have to adapt and change or go trolling and QQing on blizzard forums. Now make your choice.
Everything other that those fact is theory crafting, will it be harder to stop a drop ? Probably, but once the bio troups will be landed, a fungal will crush them so i don't think this is the hardest point.
Imo, flying units and speed hellions will be the tricky one, so we'll have to change our response, add some roaches for hellions ( where fungal/speeling were sufficient ) corrutpors/hydra/queens for phoenixes...Idk, but i like the idee overall, cause it makes the infestor more playable in all macth up specially in ZvP. This change may completely change the meta game ( ghost/feedback etc...), and i like that, it's mean that blizzard is considering that the game can evolve a lot, and it's a good thing imo.
how can you say it makes the infestor more playable? Cause not a lot of people use them doesnt make it a bad unit. I liked fungle vs Toss. I always used the infester in al my matches as the linchpin of my army ( i am really not a Pro, not even close). TLO used it vs P. Alot of people started practicing with it in ZvZ, Hydra roach vs Infestor Roach.
As for the change, i dont like it. ZvZ wil become a Mutafest. And in smaler/mid numbers, stalkers/stimemd marines can easely dodge this spell in its current state. ZvP, meh i dno. i cant see myself cathing blinkstalkers with it cause of the stupid slowass ball your spitting.
And for the damage is enormus, i dont know. Is the Damage of 1 fungle better then 1 hydra? Cause the damage change of fungle is great, dubble dps. But is the damage really that good? i can undestand people getting hyped bout this but i would like to see it first before i join the club. Also if you compare fungle to storm or EMP(vs P) i really dont think its damage is high. Not a instant cast. however the snare is nice. But that was better with the old fungle. And they always got the damage with the old fungle anyway. if it is 1 sec, 4, or 3hours.
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United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On March 02 2011 20:35 Kyuki wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 20:27 Gunman_csz wrote:On March 02 2011 20:09 Kyuki wrote:On March 02 2011 19:33 Gunman_csz wrote:On March 02 2011 19:11 Kyuki wrote:
Your rage is exactly my point. You can still use its utility, but you need something to support it to make it as useful in THAT regard. As you said, the synergy is still there, you just dont get the leeway to have _8_ seconds to catch up to whatever drop and air harass, but need to be on your toes.
You claim it HAS A ROLE, and CANNOT do anything else. Well here you go, you have a added role for it - deal with it and adapt.
I love how zerg players come here and spew shit ALL day long about EVERYTHING that is zerg related and think that when there is someone that says something positive about the race they don't play the race. Ignorance is awesome. ROFL, what are you even saying? you are not even making any sense. You are arguing for the sake of arguing and not the argument, seems to me like a troll statement. Why do you come here when you have no clue about the prepatch infestor role or what postpatch infestor role might be, you clearly don't play zerg nor do you have understanding of their role Just because you can't grasp simple things and can't argue your opinion besides saying "I've tired this and it's bad!" (which is a horrible argument) indicates more that You are trolling, not me. In this thread you've only stated what we already know. It's worse at doing what it does today, yet you don't seem to have even tried to utilize the spell in a different way, and keep crying nerf. No shit... Again, what gives you the authority to speak about something you have no idea of. How many times do I have to repeat this? "You don't play zerg nor have you tried the infestor pre/post patch". This is what you sound like: Oh Blizzard removed forcefield from sentries, now lets see how can we utilize that LOL. Blizzard has effectively slashed the utility of infestors, they served way more purpose with the lock-down then they will now with "faster" dps / projectile. The "only" function they serve now is dps burst in big battles hence their utilization has been nerfed PS: Keep on spamming the forums to increase your post count Haha, you're a funny guy. Authority? Do I need authority to speak of balance changes? If that's the case then who has authority? Everyone who plays Zerg? Haha jesus christ, you're funny. Wtf man you really can't argue :s. "Blizzard removes force field from sentries let's see how we can utilize that". Did they remove fungal? Did they remove the immobilization? Your comparison is fucking horrible :s Stick to your belief and see how others adapt and become better players while you lag behind and keep crying like the rest of the noobs. gl And yeah I spam alot to get my postcount "high". Research is your friend...
Arguing with you is like arguing against a monkey!
I can't go into TvP threads and argue about Amulet(or whatever) changes because I have no clue about that matchup / metagame or the role Templar plays throughout mid-late game.
No they haven't removed fungal but the combination of projectile + FG duration nearly nullifies the lockdown role, a crucial role for T3 support which is IMO equal to the synergy of FF with collosi/stalker army.
Your entire argument is this-> blizzard changes something -> guys lets not argue how it negatively affects the current meta game but lets look at the future.
I am not arguing with you there, I could careless what blizzard does at the end of the day I am still playing for fun. I AM JUST Freaking stating that it is nerf, an OBVIOUS nerf which you can't tell because you don't play the race!! Yet you come here on your high horse and lecture others. BRAVO
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On March 02 2011 20:52 Gunman_csz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 20:35 Kyuki wrote:On March 02 2011 20:27 Gunman_csz wrote:On March 02 2011 20:09 Kyuki wrote:On March 02 2011 19:33 Gunman_csz wrote:On March 02 2011 19:11 Kyuki wrote:
Your rage is exactly my point. You can still use its utility, but you need something to support it to make it as useful in THAT regard. As you said, the synergy is still there, you just dont get the leeway to have _8_ seconds to catch up to whatever drop and air harass, but need to be on your toes.
You claim it HAS A ROLE, and CANNOT do anything else. Well here you go, you have a added role for it - deal with it and adapt.
I love how zerg players come here and spew shit ALL day long about EVERYTHING that is zerg related and think that when there is someone that says something positive about the race they don't play the race. Ignorance is awesome. ROFL, what are you even saying? you are not even making any sense. You are arguing for the sake of arguing and not the argument, seems to me like a troll statement. Why do you come here when you have no clue about the prepatch infestor role or what postpatch infestor role might be, you clearly don't play zerg nor do you have understanding of their role Just because you can't grasp simple things and can't argue your opinion besides saying "I've tired this and it's bad!" (which is a horrible argument) indicates more that You are trolling, not me. In this thread you've only stated what we already know. It's worse at doing what it does today, yet you don't seem to have even tried to utilize the spell in a different way, and keep crying nerf. No shit... Again, what gives you the authority to speak about something you have no idea of. How many times do I have to repeat this? "You don't play zerg nor have you tried the infestor pre/post patch". This is what you sound like: Oh Blizzard removed forcefield from sentries, now lets see how can we utilize that LOL. Blizzard has effectively slashed the utility of infestors, they served way more purpose with the lock-down then they will now with "faster" dps / projectile. The "only" function they serve now is dps burst in big battles hence their utilization has been nerfed PS: Keep on spamming the forums to increase your post count Haha, you're a funny guy. Authority? Do I need authority to speak of balance changes? If that's the case then who has authority? Everyone who plays Zerg? Haha jesus christ, you're funny. Wtf man you really can't argue :s. "Blizzard removes force field from sentries let's see how we can utilize that". Did they remove fungal? Did they remove the immobilization? Your comparison is fucking horrible :s Stick to your belief and see how others adapt and become better players while you lag behind and keep crying like the rest of the noobs. gl And yeah I spam alot to get my postcount "high". Research is your friend... Arguing with you is like arguing against a monkey! I can't go into TvP threads and argue about Amulet(or whatever) changes because I have no clue about that matchup / metagame or the role Templar plays throughout mid-late game. No they haven't removed fungal but the combination of projectile + FG duration nearly nullifies the lockdown role, a crucial role for T3 support which is IMO equal to the synergy of FF with collosi/stalker army. Your entire argument is this-> blizzard changes something -> guys lets not argue how it negatively affects the current meta game but lets look at the future. I am not arguing with you there, I could careless what blizzard does at the end of the day I am still playing for fun. I AM JUST Freaking stating that it is nerf, an OBVIOUS nerf which you can't tell because you don't play the race!! Yet you come here on your high horse and lecture others. BRAVO
You keep saying I have no clue: Here's some facts about me and I was hoping that I didnt need to say this because frankly who should give a fuck?
I've played Zerg extensively, I've played Terran extensively and I've played Toss extensively and I've played quite abit of random, all at the highest league besides masters now where I've only been as Toss. I'm a terrible player compared to pros, but it doesnt mean I'm clueless about the game.
Having it projectile means it's a skillshot. Not that it nullifies its use. Beeing harder to hit = needs more practice to get good at, nothing strange. Agree? Or maybe you'd just disregard that beeing good actually plays a role in how you utilize units and spells.
You're _STATING_ it's a nerf. You're not arguing why, and this is where you fail. Yes when used as you use it today it should be regarded as a nerf, and again (repetetive I know), maybe you shouldnt? Maybe you should mix things up, and not entirely rely on fungals to stop drops and delay pushes. Maybe you need to rethink.
Yes it changes gameplay, and maybe that's a good thing for Zerg looking at how zerg most often just dies to a big fucking push that they cannot windle down enough for the reinforcements to clean up. Harder hitting fungals might help with this problem while also adressing design flaws like 1 unit nullifying air harass.
*HO HO HO HO HIAHIAHIAHIA* *Monkey sounds*
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On March 02 2011 20:52 Skrelt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 20:12 Super_bricklayer wrote:
Ha ha and now it will turn into a balance/race thread. Guys...Seriously.
The video i linked in the precedent page is not to show if it's a nerf or a buf, it's not to show that fungal is OP or UP regarding the army cost etc...It's to show the spell in some actual games so we can have a better idea of the changes, period. It's not a pro game, diamond/master according to the author. That's all.
Now as he stated, it's harder to catch flying units. Blizzard want that for a long time i think ( there was a change on fungal that started a shitstorm i you remember as it was only ground effective ), so yeah , it will be harder to catch banshee, but most off all muta/phoenix. I also have some doubts about hellion. So in that regard, it's a nerf.
Now lets face it, the damage are enormous. It completely destroy gateway ball ( and i don't see how force feald would change that fact considering the range of fungal ), neural a tank is way more easy and as the author say, he's not used to the missile micro ( nor as his opponents ) so it will change in both way ( better anticipation, and some micro to avoid it ).
Like it or not, if that change hit the official server, you'll have to adapt and change or go trolling and QQing on blizzard forums. Now make your choice.
Everything other that those fact is theory crafting, will it be harder to stop a drop ? Probably, but once the bio troups will be landed, a fungal will crush them so i don't think this is the hardest point.
Imo, flying units and speed hellions will be the tricky one, so we'll have to change our response, add some roaches for hellions ( where fungal/speeling were sufficient ) corrutpors/hydra/queens for phoenixes...Idk, but i like the idee overall, cause it makes the infestor more playable in all macth up specially in ZvP. This change may completely change the meta game ( ghost/feedback etc...), and i like that, it's mean that blizzard is considering that the game can evolve a lot, and it's a good thing imo. how can you say it makes the infestor more playable? Cause not a lot of people use them doesnt make it a bad unit. I liked fungle vs Toss. I always used the infester in al my matches as the linchpin of my army ( i am really not a Pro, not even close). TLO used it vs P. Alot of people started practicing with it in ZvZ, Hydra roach vs Infestor Roach. As for the change, i dont like it. ZvZ wil become a Mutafest. And in smaler/mid numbers, stalkers/stimemd marines can easely dodge this spell in its current state. ZvP, meh i dno. i cant see myself cathing blinkstalkers with it cause of the stupid slowass ball your spitting. And for the damage is enormus, i dont know. Is the Damage of 1 fungle better then 1 hydra? Cause the damage change of fungle is great, dubble dps. But is the damage really that good? i can undestand people getting hyped bout this but i would like to see it first before i join the club. Also if you compare fungle to storm or EMP(vs P) i really dont think its damage is high. Not a instant cast. however the snare is nice. But that was better with the old fungle. And they always got the damage with the old fungle anyway. if it is 1 sec, 4, or 3hours.
Tlo himself during the 12 weeks with the pro says infestor where extremely hard and situational to use in ZvP, you can use them very effectively against 2 stargate opening, it's like the perfect hard counter. But again 3/4 of the other openings they cost too many gas for the amount of damage they deal. In that regard, the changes could be extremely good for that match up.
Concerning the muta in ZvZ, we don't know yet. It will be harder to catch them for sure. Will it make ZvZ a muta fest ? I won't bet my money, cause even if it's harder, one good fungal and you'll loose all the muta that will be hit. Specially since with those change we will probably make more infestor as we are used to considering they will be more damage dealer than a support unit.
Same logic with marines, yes they can kitte etc...But one mistake and your armie is gone. And i'm not sure that as you said, marines and stalker will dodge that so easily once we'll get used to that missile. Blink stalker could be a problem ( agree it's weird considering fungal is a counter to blink ), i don't know.
All those point are theory crafting, and that's why i don't like to argue about those specific point. We don't know yet, i could listen more to top player, but usually they never place such big affirmation before testing it seriously, and long enough...You see where am i going here yah ? 
And most off all, i hate comparing direct spell. Storm or EMP are effective cause of the army/race they are part off. It's not constructive to make some direct comparison.
All i am saying is that it's such a big change we can't see clearly how effective it's gonna be. I could even bet that we'll see some people crying it's OP in the 3/4 weeks after the ( possible ) patch. :D
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Having it projectile means it's a skillshot. Not that it nullifies its use. Beeing harder to hit = needs more practice to get good at, nothing strange. Agree? Or maybe you'd just disregard that beeing good actually plays a role in how you utilize units and spells.
ATM ist like klicking a HSM. No skill involved on the side of the caster. You just cant aim it. You can try to predict where he will possibly run, press your hotkey and pray that you guessed right.
Compare it to an old arcade game like space invaders... your missile is extremly slow and you only can hit things because they come in a predictable pattern. No "random" movement involved. And even in this situation shots will be misses and its much easier to just spam the "fire" button.
Skill is involved only on the dodgers side. He ist the one in charge who lets the FG hit happen or not.
Likewise you cant use a "tactical" FG to try and limit the opponents movement possibilities, because unlike FF or storm, FG instantly disappears if it missed.
So its no "skillshot" at all... its happy guessing where a wrong guess can kill you outright.
Yes it changes gameplay, and maybe that's a good thing for Zerg looking at how zerg most often just dies to a big fucking push that they cannot windle down enough for the reinforcements to clean up. Harder hitting fungals might help with this problem while also adressing design flaws like 1 unit nullifying air harass.
Most often the zerg doesnt die because he did not enough dmg, but because he hadnt enough time to bring in another wave. How will a nerf to delaying the attack do anything good?
The dmg buff is far to small to make a major difference here.
For the argument with one unit shutting down air harass... maybe a design flaw, maybe not. Hard to judge if you consider the alternatives.
Corruptor/hydra/muta. 2 of them extremely gasheavy (which probably means: no infestors) and two of them way to slow to shut down air harassment on 3 bases, even if you got far greater numbers.
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