I know there will be a ton of comments saying that it don't show anything, that this player is bad and probably out macro the even worst opponent bla bla bla. But honestly i don't care, this is a freaking massacre, i love that, and most off all, this vids is fun. :D
In a more serious note, the author of the vids add this :
A collection of replays displaying the new *and improved* 1.3 infestor, and all the carnage it brings.
I also included a few key non-infestor moments that led up to the situations shown in some of the games, so that you know how we reached that point.
All opponents are diamond/master level. The change is new so opponent dodging (and my own FGing) is not yet at the level that it should/will be. I look forward to making another vod once this micro has come into play!
What I've found in the process of making this:
Mutas/Phoenix are VERY hard to stop with infestors alone.
Bio play is now a joke once midgame is reached, and is relatively easy to hit as long as you're cutting off escape paths with your army.
Gateway compositions also melt relatively fast, the zealot actually being the toughest unit to kill with the new FG, sentries and non-blink stalkers however just roll over and die.
Tanks are much easier to NP due to the added health, even when your damage sponges have already died.
8 stalker 6 sentries 19 zealot vs 8 infestors 100+ lings 5 mutas vs 5 infestors 37 roaches vs 19 roaches 7 queens 15 infestors some terran kiting maxed out zerg vs mined out terran at 130 food 180 food zerg vs 93 food terran 144 food zerg vs 128 food toss 160 food zerg vs 130 food toss 140 food zerg vs 100 food terran
It seems to be mostly showcasing a zerg being vastly ahead, and securing a win, incidentally using infestors to do so. The first battle and the roach battle were really the only ones that were even close, and even then, the zerg was still pretty far ahead. (and in the toss battle, the toss completely failed at using forcefields.)
That video is fun (the music is funny) but holy Christ... how often does someone have like 15 infestors in a close game?
Maybe with this change it's actually worth getting that many... who knows. I'd love to see a video posted by someone who is proficient at dodging them.
On March 02 2011 10:35 morimacil wrote: 8 stalker 6 sentries 19 zealot vs 8 infestors 100+ lings 5 mutas vs 5 infestors 37 roaches vs 19 roaches 7 queens 15 infestors some terran kiting maxed out zerg vs mined out terran at 130 food 180 food zerg vs 93 food terran 144 food zerg vs 128 food toss 160 food zerg vs 130 food toss 140 food zerg vs 100 food terran
It seems to be mostly showcasing a zerg being vastly ahead, and securing a win, incidentally using infestors to do so. The first battle and the roach battle were really the only ones that were even close, and even then, the zerg was still pretty far ahead. (and in the toss battle, the toss completely failed at using forcefields.)
Zerg should always be that ahead in supply. If they are at equal supply then Zerg is behind. Thats how it works since BW.
On March 02 2011 10:35 morimacil wrote: 8 stalker 6 sentries 19 zealot vs 8 infestors 100+ lings 5 mutas vs 5 infestors 37 roaches vs 19 roaches 7 queens 15 infestors some terran kiting maxed out zerg vs mined out terran at 130 food 180 food zerg vs 93 food terran 144 food zerg vs 128 food toss 160 food zerg vs 130 food toss 140 food zerg vs 100 food terran
It seems to be mostly showcasing a zerg being vastly ahead, and securing a win, incidentally using infestors to do so. The first battle and the roach battle were really the only ones that were even close, and even then, the zerg was still pretty far ahead. (and in the toss battle, the toss completely failed at using forcefields.)
This pretty well sums up why the video is not good evidence, in just about all situations the Z is in a commanding lead versus inferior players, he could have pretty much used any unit combination at that point and rolled his opponents.
I mean just look at the second game, terran is one one base pulling SCVs 12 minutes in game, then it fast forwards to zerg steamrolling him off four base like somehow it was the infestors that won the game.
On March 02 2011 13:29 arc.exe wrote: i feel this is a horrid idea, its a nerf not a buff
Whats Changed:
Projectile instead of instant-This doesn't change anything. Unless your a noob who can't micro More Damage Faster Damage More HP
*Facepalm*. Its a frikkin buff people.
As for people arguing the validity of the Video stating the Zerg was ahead. Watch some progames. Zerg is always ahead in supply for the most part of the game. If Zerg is not ahead in supply then he is behind even if they are on equal supply. Thats how Zerg works. Thats why they have that killer Econ.
Surely you can't argue that the infestor is nerfed from 1.3 ... This buff is extremely evident by the YouTube video on this page if not by just reading the facts in the OP or indeed the patch notes.
Gotta love that 80's comeback music in the video, you forgot "Live To Win".
On March 02 2011 13:48 GinDo wrote: Projectile instead of instant-This doesn't change anything. Unless your a noob who can't micro
As everyone who's been reading this thread is sure to know, turning insta-cast into a projectile is a HUGE change.
Also, you forgot to mention that it only holds units in place for 1/2 the time, which completely changes the primary function of the unit.
Exactly. In ZvT the infestor has two uses:
--Fungal marines so they die --Fungal other shit so you can eat it with lings
The second one is highly, highly dependent on the duration.
The smaller duration makes it so that Medivacs can't heal the marines at the same rate s they are losin HP= Dead Marines. Plus most people are accustomed to use more then 1 fungal so the duration does't really matter. Not to mention that Marines can;t run away from Speedlings. so you lings will still reach the marines regardless of if they are stuck or not.
On March 02 2011 13:29 arc.exe wrote: i feel this is a horrid idea, its a nerf not a buff
As for people arguing the validity of the Video stating the Zerg was ahead. Watch some progames. Zerg is always ahead in supply for the most part of the game. If Zerg is not ahead in supply then he is behind even if they are on equal supply. Thats how Zerg works. Thats why they have that killer Econ.
If you can honestly watch the video and think for a second those players were on the same level as the zerg in the video, you are clueless.
Hmm... The ensnare was traded off for damage. Not sure if want.
Better against terran for sure, since this will facerape bioballs. Against zerg is pretty decent as well for roach v roach. Though whether gas is better spent on hydras versus infestor is hard to say. Against protoss, fungal is more useful for keeping blink stalkers or colossi in place for surround. This means you'll need more infestors for the same duration since you need more spells thrown for the same duration.
About the new infestor ball.... how would you explain a rolling acid ball hitting air units? Especially if it's air units on impassable terrain?
On March 02 2011 13:48 GinDo wrote: Projectile instead of instant-This doesn't change anything. Unless your a noob who can't micro
As everyone who's been reading this thread is sure to know, turning insta-cast into a projectile is a HUGE change.
Also, you forgot to mention that it only holds units in place for 1/2 the time, which completely changes the primary function of the unit.
Exactly. In ZvT the infestor has two uses:
--Fungal marines so they die --Fungal other shit so you can eat it with lings
The second one is highly, highly dependent on the duration.
The smaller duration makes it so that Medivacs can't heal the marines at the same rate s they are losin HP= Dead Marines. Plus most people are accustomed to use more then 1 fungal so the duration does't really matter. Not to mention that Marines can;t run away from Speedlings. so you lings will still reach the marines regardless of if they are stuck or not.
Spamming in this thread doesn't make you right! You neither play zerg nor have you used infestors on the ptr, yet you believe your nonsensical theorycrafting to be true (obnoxious much?)
Infestor can not slow down pushs!! infestors cannot be used late game to stop vikings from attacking broodlords. Infestors cannot be used to stop dropship FGs are hard to land on moving target from far range (let alone stimmed / hellions / blink stalkers). FGs are hard to land on air units. FGs cannot be used for detection.
This is after 50 or so games on PTR of trying to mass infestors... The only situation where FG will be used way more often is in ZvZ roach wars. Other then that, the projectile/duration is a huge nerf to the infestor "role" and zerg's metagame.
On March 01 2011 23:50 RoKetha wrote: I don't understand how people could possibly argue that this is a buff in any way except maybe against slow armored units.
Fungal used to be a guaranteed 36 damage, now it is 36 damage that can miss.
This. Not sure if someone already posted this (don't have time to review all 18 pages in this thread) but I thought the new missile mechanic for the fungal was a bad idea, seeing this video made me feel worse about the infestor. Haven't personally tried this yet though, so I haven't confirmed if this is really as bad as it looks.
But that's the worst type of example you can possibly find. It's almost like putting one colossi in the open and have it getting destroyed by 4 roaches and say it's a useless unit.
I agree that this wasn't the best example for the new infestor but it still kinda shows what you can't do with the infestor anymore (cast FG where units are and know for sure it's going to hit). Like a lot of posters have said, it has its pros and cons, but it will definitely change how the infestor is used (which imo is good, especially for me, since I need more practice using them anyway). I just wish it's the weekend already so I can finally hop on the PTR and see the changes for myself.
And just for the record, I agree that the changes are more buff than nerf.
Ofc the projectile change is a nerf, but instant cast fungal denied Air FAR too well. If you have infestors around, you CANNOT use your Phoenix, or your mutas AT ALL for its purpose. It's one thing that you dance around storm, poke around thors and take some damage etc, but beeing locked down for 8 seconds and not beeing able to do anything about the actual cast besides praying that the opponent misses is a design flaw that is beeing changed and in turn they had to make the spell stronger DPS wise so it wouldn be useless. And now it's more useful in other situations instead.
It's a give and take situation. Better players will be better at using fungal. Hurray!
And people still argue how it's a nerf using the infestor as it's used today... Seriously take what you are given at look at the possibilities. So much ignorance it's sad...
Alot of good will come out of this. Some people mention better dynamic on the different matchups and I totally agree.
EPT
