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Zyban
United States54 Posts
A couple of points I think some of you might have missed: Infestors are no longer 1 hit by snipe the missle effect allows you to land a hit on the BACK of a charging terran bioball without pre positioning. fungal is now much weaker against cloaked units in general. | ||
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TheButtonmen
Canada1405 Posts
On March 01 2011 10:38 Zyban wrote: I concur with most that this is a buff in all matchups (in ZvZ the most IMO vs roachs). I find it funny you guys would take ensare over fungal... how the fuck you gonna deal with a muta/roach/marine/anything ball with ensnares? Banelings. | ||
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
gave credit to you of course. | ||
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Farkinator
United States283 Posts
Infestors are used as a strategy with great creep spread in order to stall pushes and such. This allows you to slam out an appropriate amount of units to deal with scary pushes because you've been droning instead of producing units. Secondly, the longer duration on Fungal Growth was your way of dealing with delayed mutalisks. You needed to be able to kill off dropships by fungaling and infested terraning dropships. With the duration halved, there's literally no way to deal with drops if you go Infestor, making Mutalisk a necessity. Remember the change to fungal not hitting air? People on the PTR could basically blindly counter Mutalisk without ever having to know anything else was coming because anyone with decent multitask could punish anyone who dared not get mutalisks. This shouldn't go through; the duration on the snare is what the spell was intended for. IT WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO DO DAMAGE. It was supposed to keep blink stalkers, stim marines etc. still so you could attempt to get a surround on the units that can actually manage to outrun speed Zerglings and stall pushes, not to be some retarded gimped version of Psi Storm. Can people who don't actually know how to play infestor zerg stop posting about how this is actually a buff to the play style? | ||
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Conrose
437 Posts
On March 01 2011 10:56 Farkinator wrote: Can people who don't actually know how to play infestor zerg stop posting about how this is actually a buff to the play style? It's nerfing the old style of Infestor play but creating a shift to a very different style of Infestor play. A style of play that some are arguing is more beneficial to Zerg overall. And I would argue against it being a gimped version of Psi Storm... this ain't no storm you can march your units out of. | ||
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Kavtor
Canada7 Posts
While the new infestor is better against protoss, and might actually show up in ZvP's, I don't think it's worth loosing early infestors in ZvT, even if the DPS changes make it a good support unit to add into the mix later on. | ||
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Jotoco
Brazil1342 Posts
On March 01 2011 10:38 Zyban wrote: I find it funny you guys would take ensare over fungal... how the fuck you gonna deal with a muta/roach/marine/anything ball with ensnares? with your other units that would trump them anyways sans infestors? no thanks. By moving in units that, otherwise, would be too slow to catch then? Or units that outrange then and they can't do shit about it because they are ensnared? I don't know, there are so many options! | ||
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Xirroh
Canada146 Posts
If this change can give zerg a viable alternative to banes for killing marines I'll be happy. FG does have a radius of 2 which is larger then storms 1.5. It could end up doing fairly significant damage to unit groups, which would be cool. | ||
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MrPrezbo
92 Posts
On March 01 2011 09:42 Wren wrote: It's really funny to see this at the start of a post that orders points A and 2. No, because fungal's total damage dealt hasn't changed (this post only worries about unarmored units like said marines). If you get just TWO fungals onto a group of marines, they will die, before or after the patch's change. By the way, this is easier now than it will be in 1.3. Banelings are used because they're a fast cleanup, a killing blow, not because fungal doesn't do any damage right now. Damage and DPS are different. DPS was increase, not damage dealt. With this spell, which immobilizes, it's hard to argue that DPS is important at all in an open battle, because you can just cast and step out of range. Making the instant effect into a slow projectile increases the likelihood that you miss or are dodged, and decreases the chances that you'll be able to pure harass (cast and run). You ever hear of medivacs? Fungal now outdamages the heal. That's a huge point that you somehow missed. | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
On March 01 2011 10:56 Farkinator wrote: IT WAS NEVER SUPPOSED TO DO DAMAGE. I think the ensnare ability loses it's effectiveness as we move into the lategame. It would be very effective in special cases like the first Terran Tank push, if you had your infestors positioned very well, however as the game advances, the Terran death ball will get bigger, and so will the Protoss death ball, if you don't have the units out in Time, your just plain fucked, since you wont be able to cast FG and run away without taking considerable losses. At this point, doubling the DPS is fucking HUGE! The dodgeable missle is a nice balance though, hell I actually like micro requirements. Consider this as well: My intuition based on your tone and inclination tells me that you do not posses the infestor prowess that you speak of. Are you so sure that ensnare was not overpowered in the hands of a gosu? | ||
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Innovation
United States284 Posts
Trust me when I say this....if this buff gets through you're going to see some insanely powerfull builds centered around infestor play that just plain dominates until terran/toss figure out how to stop it. I'm very excited as a zerg player! woot! | ||
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Creem
Sweden254 Posts
On March 01 2011 15:26 Xirroh wrote: SC2 Zerg unit design is best described as incoherent. Patch changes to help zerg are often confusing because of the mess in zerg units and tech path. My hope is with blizzard spending 6-12 months with zerg and HotS they will make some more significant changes to the way zerg functions. The common description of zerg as "underdeveloped" is both true and ironic (given zergs evolutionary lore). If this change can give zerg a viable alternative to banes for killing marines I'll be happy. FG does have a radius of 2 which is larger then storms 1.5. It could end up doing fairly significant damage to unit groups, which would be cool. This combined with its usefulness vs toss deathball makes the new FG much better than the old one. I don't understand how players can argue that the old one was great for stalling and delaying attacks. Even if it successfully filled this role it still only functioned as delaying the inevitable loss. Before FG buff zerg has no answer to the marine/tank army composition, banelings who are supposed to kill marines get outkited so easily (stimmed marines move almost twice as fast offcreep) while siege tanks blow them up 10 at a time. This change is great as it's finally giving zerg a way to deal with marines and toss deathball. | ||
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wonderwall
New Zealand695 Posts
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Gunman_csz
United Arab Emirates492 Posts
On March 01 2011 17:37 wonderwall wrote: This might impact ZvZ quite a bit now. The reduced duration will really hurt their role. Infestors were really used as a support unit to hold roaches in bad positions so they cant achieve concaves. I'm unsure of the effect of using mass fungals for damage but I don't think it will be viable in comparison to just a roach hydra ball. I have been playing around with the infestor alot on the ptr server and this is what I think: It is a nerf against air period. (Muta, phoenix, drops, vikings). It is a nerf agaisnt mobile units. (Hellion, Marine/Marauder, Stalker). | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
On February 28 2011 19:53 [F_]aths wrote: Worst argument ever. Have you not heard as to WHY zergs won the first 2 GSLs?Actually, zerg already won the GSL. Actually twice. Actually at a time where zerg was widely considered UP. Have you perhaps heard about the fact of low numbers of zergs making it to the higher rounds of GSLs? Have you perhaps heard about zergs winning low numbers of tournaments overall? Maybe you should consider those things instead of saying the outright winners of just 2 tournaments instead of looking at the big picture. | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
I think it's a huge buff and is a needed component for zerg mid/lategame. And can people stop complain about feedback. It has the same range as fungal, and them templar is VERY fast units... It's a dance that makes it both entertaining and plays a skillrole. You need to play them differently and have different use for them. Calling out how their "role" is now nerfed is just wrong. Their role have changed! You need new units to back them up when used for certain defense etc. It will atleast be interesting to see how this fares after a while if it goes through (which I hope) and players have adapted. We still see Zergs having major issues to adapt to various toss combination and goes with the same unit mix and same bad timing on them and call imba when they get rolled by a tailored composition... Not saying it's easy for zerg, but comon... Try something new? (more than once or twice) | ||
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Malkavian183
Turkey227 Posts
I just look at how much people QQ sometimes and say why do you play if it is SO bad. Just quit playing if you don't have fun and it will be better =D | ||
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RoKetha
United States211 Posts
Fungal used to be a guaranteed 36 damage, now it is 36 damage that can miss. You had no reason to engage while that damage was being dealt if you were using it for the purpose of softening the army before, so the rate at which the damage is dealt is completely irrelevant against everything except zerglings and units being healed by medivacs. If you were using it to have an advantageous engagement it is now worse in every possible way. I honestly can't believe that there are pages and pages of people who are ecstatic about how fungaling things to kill them is suddenly viable now that it does the same damage as before except against armored (where it still takes 5-6 fungals to kill anything at all), but is harder to chain. | ||
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Jotoco
Brazil1342 Posts
On March 01 2011 23:50 RoKetha wrote: I don't understand how people could possibly argue that this is a buff in any way except maybe against slow armored units. Fungal used to be a guaranteed 36 damage, now it is 36 damage that can miss. You had no reason to engage while that damage was being dealt if you were using it for the purpose of softening the army before, so the rate at which the damage is dealt is completely irrelevant against everything except zerglings and units being healed by medivacs. If you were using it to have an advantageous engagement it is now worse in every possible way. I honestly can't believe that there are pages and pages of people who are ecstatic about how fungaling things to kill them is suddenly viable now that it does the same damage as before except against armored (where it still takes 5-6 fungals to kill anything at all), but is harder to chain. If you observe every post saying it is a buff has a little SCV to the left of the name... | ||
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