EPTthose who still think zerg is all about macro must have missed the results of IEM - zerg is the race that has to take its chances and being flexible which includes macro ofc but not exclusively
Zerg vs. Forge Fast Expand? - Page 2
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Alphasquad
Austria505 Posts
those who still think zerg is all about macro must have missed the results of IEM - zerg is the race that has to take its chances and being flexible which includes macro ofc but not exclusively | ||
Chill
Calgary25990 Posts
Premise: Protoss >> Terran If he makes infantry I just get storm, immortals beat tanks and phoenixes beat vikings Conclusion: Terran should always all-in vs Protoss Obviously the real game doesn't work like that and plenty of people have shown viability using FFE vs Zerg. Every decent FFE follows up with ridiculous gateway pressure (at least 5 warpgates) or a stargate to deal with mutas. | ||
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Snoyarc
United States101 Posts
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
If I am up against FFE's, I will go for mutas. I will just rush to spire and get mutalisks out with 4 gasses. If you didn't open with 2 stargates, I will have so much fun harrassing your mineral line or snipe pylons, stalkers, and basically keep you pinned to your 2 bases, because you delayed warp gate research so much. Sure you have a good economy, but you won't get a third long before I have mine, which is pretty key to overpower a zerg. If you DID get 2 stargates, I can get a quicker third regardless. Because you will be making phoenixes to combat my mutalisks, which cant lif up buildings. And I can delay your third with lings because your ground army will be smaller and weaker, because I'm forcing you to invest in loads of phoenixes. So if I go for spire and you go for 2 stargates, I can basically predict that you will get a robo facility with a collosus den afterwards. So you can aim for a collosus voidray deathball. Giving me ample time to set up my possible defense. If he did decide to go for a more gateway centric style, I can crush that with 3base roach ling anyway. If the zerg decides to not go for mutalisks, and instead goes for lings or roaches or hydra bust or a quick third, the protoss can simply react and be perfectly fine. Hydra's and roaches? I'll build a collosus and sit here until I have an army that roasts yours. Mass roaches? I'll go immortal/stalker/sentry, gg boy. Oh you're taking a quick third really quickly? Let me do the same and put cannons there, have fun trying to break that with an all in. ------------------------------ TL DR -------------------------------- To summary my opinion. I would almost always say that 3gate expand is superior to a FFE. Simply because of the sheer variety and flexibility of it. The zerg cant go for some onebase muta play and expect no units. You don't have to deal with silly all-ins either that the zerg might win because you misplaced a cannon. However, on maps such as shakuras that have an easily defendable third. FFE reigns supreme. Toss doesn't have to care that you are going on 4 bases, he has 3 bases and he is enjoying his perfect world where he can upgrade and get superior tech units. You CAN'T cost-effectively break an entrenched protoss. Not even broodlords with a max roach/hydra army. Forcefields and protoss upgraded splash is simply too strong if your only option is to force your army through one passage without the ability to surround or get a good concave. FFE on shakuras, maybe shattered temp, 3gate expo is superior on other maps from my experience. | ||
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blight
Singapore7 Posts
On March 10 2011 04:13 ryc wrote: Great post. Basically, forge fast expanding is actually all about scouting. As a macro zerg, I actually fear macro protoss because that means they will reach the death ball much sooner. If possible, I try to bust with zergling/roach and pray that their sim city is bad. thks! against fast mutas, i think ur ground army would not be that strong. i'm not sure about the timing of "rushing" mutas. but i think that is probably the reason of having 2 stargate 5 warpgate pressure. btw, the the pressure will consist mainly of 1 or 2 vr and some pheonix (not sure the number), and mainly about 4-6 sentries and 5-7 zealots with more warping out reinforcing. even if u have enough mutas to kill the air, you will not have enough ground to kill the zealot sentry in time before at least some econ dmg is dealt. if you have taken ur third when the push is coming, the less ground force you have, which might be worse. of course, that pressure is not an all in. because protoss have 2 bases 4 gas, he can easily make a robo facility and robo bay during the pressure. if the pressure is didn't do any econ dmg, protoss is of course behind. but the main purpose is to delay zerg from mass droning too much, as well as to get the robo tech for the colossus vr stalker unit combi. the longer protoss can delay, the better position he will get. he will definitely need to secure a third before pushing out though. so i think all these are just how both sides play, balancing the units and drones created, and for protoss getting the positioning and knowing when to push out. either ways are a test of both sides' skills, and not just any hit or miss sort of thing. just my opinion though. i'm a terran player. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On February 22 2011 11:34 Dhalphir wrote: Correct, but forge fast expand using the build order you're talking about is a bad build and easily crushed by either 15 hatch or 1base roach. Sorry to quote an old post, but it's been months before I've seen a post this bad in the strategy forum. It's far more accurate to say "15 hatch and 1base roach are bad builds that easily get crushed by forge fast expand". | ||
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whoBmyrice
United States25 Posts
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