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HuK's PvZ Style - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Ryze
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada234 Posts
February 09 2011 08:26 GMT
#41
I really dont see how this is new, protoss have been hiding cannons behind mineral lines or somewhere out of sight since the dawn of starcraft -.-

Its just up to the zerg player to see your forge with a drone scout or just have an overlord over his hatchery and to not let you do it..
www.twitch.tv/colryze twitter.com/colryze acelessons.com/lessons/colryze/
ChineseWife
Profile Joined August 2010
United States373 Posts
February 09 2011 08:53 GMT
#42
this isnt new and it doesnt belong to huk. this is called reacting to scouting information and cannons are probably the most common way for protoss to hurt zerg who hatch first. sorry you havent been paying attention until now!

I wouldn't try to look at this as a build order but rather just note what huk sees and how he reacts to it. If you forge first and dont expand vs a pool first zerg, you are setting yourself really far behind unless you are going for a 1 base allin with a +1 timing attack
Oops I made no units
freetgy
Profile Joined November 2010
1720 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-09 08:54:37
February 09 2011 08:54 GMT
#43
well the only important information is that, you build your canons timed so that you can cancel your Canons too if he cancels too.

or you would have wasted money of 2 Gateways into useless canons.
jarrydesque
Profile Joined November 2010
584 Posts
February 09 2011 09:08 GMT
#44
I'd like to try something like this, but I just don't trust my scouting of Zerg. So people are saying that you will react to a 16 Hatch by going Forge first. Right. Does that mean you drop your Forge when he drops his Hatch? Or would you have to drop it before? And if you had to drop it before, how would you know for sure that he is going to Hatch? I mean, so if I get to 14 supply and I see no buildings, throw down a Forge? And then he drops a Pool and Gas? Obviously I'll cancel the Forge and get a Gateway, but that still does not help me really know what's what with Zerg.

Totally OT now but how do you tell the difference between a Speedling expand and a Roach Rush. I normally hide my Probe and suicide it in to try see a Warren but is there a way to tell with the initial build timings?
#1 Kennigit fanboy/stalker
Shifft
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada1085 Posts
February 09 2011 09:15 GMT
#45
HuK used to do this a lot on his stream, but it like didn't even make sense how well it worked. He would drop the first pylon in plain view of the Z and still get his fucking cannons up every single time.
=O
Buruguduy
Profile Joined September 2010
Philippines238 Posts
February 09 2011 10:10 GMT
#46
On February 09 2011 18:15 Shifft wrote:
HuK used to do this a lot on his stream, but it like didn't even make sense how well it worked. He would drop the first pylon in plain view of the Z and still get his fucking cannons up every single time.


Did the Z hatch before pool? if yes, the canon will go up no matter what
NA: pon.838 // SEA: pon.451 // KR: pon.843
eth3n
Profile Joined August 2010
718 Posts
February 09 2011 10:15 GMT
#47
drones
Idra Potter: I don't use avada kedavra because i have self-respect.
jnkw
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada347 Posts
February 09 2011 10:45 GMT
#48
On February 09 2011 16:47 FloWoIF wrote:
This build looks interesting from a zergs pov but what if the serf goes guitars a reach build because it means you have expanded due to scouting the spawning pool. Plus your probe should die before the roach warren is scouted. Nevertheless it looks like a very well thought out build especially for a 14 hatch great delay time.


What??
andy186
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1058 Posts
February 09 2011 10:54 GMT
#49
Huk using cannons!!?!?!?!?!? wow never seen that before.

Its not a new pvz style and its not even new for huk. It is a very common strat.

Also when you say it slows down hatch by 100 seconds and is much better than the pylon block but now its costing you 400 minerals instead of 100 for a bit extra time maybe even less if thye dont even cancel at all.

Its only effective if the cannons finish or they cancel the hatch but the zerg can probably stop both from happening
whowahuh
Profile Joined October 2010
United States184 Posts
February 09 2011 11:00 GMT
#50
On February 09 2011 18:15 Shifft wrote:
HuK used to do this a lot on his stream, but it like didn't even make sense how well it worked. He would drop the first pylon in plain view of the Z and still get his fucking cannons up every single time.


Having a second probe to either distract drones pulled off the line or allow pylons/cannons to be built in two places at once helps with this strategy a ton. Might be stating the obvious, but clicking probes to mineral patches is an absolute MUST since the zerg will obviously be looking to surround trap the probes.
Bellygareth
Profile Joined October 2010
France512 Posts
February 09 2011 11:16 GMT
#51
I don't get it. Why isn't the zerg scouting for the probe as soon as he sees the forge first?
Forge first only means two things:
- Forge expo
- cannon rush

Forge expo is usually easy to tell from the positioning of the structures. If that's not obvious you should hurry and find that scouting probe.
I usually scout quite early (drone arrives when the first building is warping), so it gives time to prepare.
My conclusion right now is that it's not a solid "build" at all.

Besides I'm not sure it's "standard" even for Huk. I noticed that while laddering he sometimes release some steam by cannon rushing / 4 warpgating / cheesing in any sort.
Arcanefrost
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium1257 Posts
February 09 2011 12:10 GMT
#52
Huk waits till 15-16 supply so he can react exactly to what the zerg is doing. He doesn't blindly go for a cannon block.
Valor is a poor substitute for numbers.
Fabious
Profile Joined September 2010
France17 Posts
February 09 2011 12:16 GMT
#53
Its not a new build lol !

I use this build since 2 or 3 months Oo
I saw HuK on his stream doing that 1 month ago (on LT) but i can assure you that's not a new build or a "huk" build.

Hypersensitive
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
February 09 2011 12:24 GMT
#54
I think this is a risky strat with little payoff for the Protoss.

If all goes well you cancel the hatchery but you as protoss pay quite a hefy cost:
- 1 or 2 cannons you cancel directly after hatch cancel = 75 minerals
- the cannon and pylon you leave up = 250 minerals
- a cannon you are FORCED to make at home for fear of zerg pushing back directly = 150 minerals
- a 2nd probe send over to secure the cannons getting up = at least 50 minerals.
Total about 525 minerals


The proper response to this as zerg imo is:
- build a 3rd hatchery at another expo after your pool straight away when the cannons are being put down (if you are sure you are not able to take them down.).
- cancel the hatch just before it's about to finish, making sure to let the toss get at least 1 cannon up.
- get the 2nd queen quite fast at your main and start spreading creep towards your expansion, which will be further away obviously.
- go relatively fast roaches afterwards, toss goes very late gas and techs late with a forge first opening so they will have problems countering roaches early on. Roaches are also the only safe tier 1 option against a 4 gate +1 attack push, against which lings die hard. If they chose to cannon expand after their opening roaches will also be the best way to threaten them into making more cannons. Roaches are also best to take out the cannon and pylon he left behind at your natural, if you do so with lings you are bound to lose at least 4 lings whereas with 4 roaches it is easy to take out the cannon without losses.

As long as you get another base up quickly (without having that cannoned as well) you should be in a good spot, as protoss is invested more in canceling your hatch then you lost.


W2
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1177 Posts
February 09 2011 13:09 GMT
#55
This isn't a build order, it's just getting a forge if you see a zerg going hatch first and cannoning him
Hi
Keshuan
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany18 Posts
February 09 2011 14:23 GMT
#56
Which Zerg is dumb enough going Hatch first theese days? I mean rly if i see a zerg going hatch first i add a forge get till 16 probes build denn a Zaelot + 2-3 Cannons in Front (not in Sight!) of his Hatch and kills it with zaelot+ Cannons just had 1! Game which the Zerg could defend it the other Games i allways won with that.
6 Sentry + Hallucination = Free MapHack
Tsabo
Profile Joined September 2010
Russian Federation266 Posts
February 09 2011 14:35 GMT
#57
The OP has too many strategic mistkes to point them all out.

For example:

All the while, be keeping an eye on their expansion/pool timing, if they are going for pool first, go the the expo, and wait for the drone.

As soon as the drone starts building the hatch, it will lose vision, make sure there are no overlords around. If there are, get far out of vision range.


This is bullshit you can not cannon rush a pool -> hatch. As seen it the video huk doesnt even try to do it.
AnodyneSea
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Jamaica757 Posts
February 09 2011 14:45 GMT
#58
You seriously think this is a new style? People have always been doing this...
Lost within the hope of freedom, not for control but in the light of our cause
sc2pal
Profile Joined February 2011
Poland624 Posts
February 09 2011 14:52 GMT
#59
Yeah, this is denying hatch first build and have nothing to do with pool->hatch.
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
February 09 2011 14:52 GMT
#60
Removed "new" from the title. It doesn't really warrant that but it's definitely his style to do cannon stuff.
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