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On February 23 2011 11:33 Tierfight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 11:23 ZasZ. wrote:On February 23 2011 11:16 Tierfight wrote:On February 23 2011 11:14 Sevenofnines wrote:On February 23 2011 11:04 Tierfight wrote:
Get rid of hellions and you are free to shoot banshees. Of course banshees can try to micro but everytime they need to stop to shoot, there is numbers of marines shooting at it (believe me, 6 marines kill banshee very fast) and more marines are coming. You aren't going to get rid of the helions since they produce basically as fast as marines. You just sent your tank in front of your marines like a moron and it got sniped off by banshees that outrange your marines. You now have a a bunch of marines against helions + banshees who will mop them up easily. Furthermore, trying to focus fire banshees causes marines to clump up, making them easily owned by helions. In ANY situation where you send the tank in front like that, you will get creamed. Not to mention that with halfway decent scoot & shoot micro, 1 Banshee could easily kill 6 marines. You are stupid, if you think that in that situation those tanks cannot kill those hellions fast enough before banshees kill tanks. Or if hellions run away, marines are free to rearrange and shoot stuff. Why isn't this guy banned yet? He provides absolutely no evidence to back up his claims and is actively trolling every thread about this TvT style. I haven't seen a single one of your posts that isn't pure theorycrafting. iEchoic has posted a number of replays of him beating top level players with this style, against everything from bio to tank/viking play. Post some replays of yourself executing the theorycrafting you're babbling about and maybe we'll shut up. Until then, feel free to keep raging. EDIT: Wow @ the post above me. He really is raging. Maybe you should calm down and realize that iEchoic and others like him executing this strategy doesn't really harm you in any way. Beating top players with this doesnt proove anything else but beating top players with it. It prooves, that not so many have been able to play enough good with tanks and marines/thors and failed miserably. The point of theorycrafting, is finding a way to actually counter a build rather than trying to do stuff randomly and hope to strike something. And in theory, marines will own hellions so badly that it is not even funny anymore.
We acknowledge that Thor is generally considered a weakness against this build.
We acknowledge that Tank/Marine most definitely can hold it's own against this build.
We acknowledge that like every other build, this one has flaws and can always fixed.
What we don't appreciate is your hostility towards this. You go as far as to call the author arrogant and immune to criticism. This just simply is not the case. You are too blinded that this is a cheese and that it doesn't work simply because X "counters" Y. Think outside the box!
I hellion drop your marine while your immobile army is sieged in the middle of the map and you lose all your SCVs. Who's winning then? I completely acknowledge that you can move up into the base with a solid tank push and hellions running in it to kill the marines would be suicidal, but this is simply not going to happen every single time!
Edit: And that silly one word answer in your previous post is absolutely ridiculous.
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You guys shouldn't feed the troll. PM a mod or something.
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tanks, marines and medivacs definitely counter this build too. Stimpack just rapes all banshees
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On February 23 2011 11:39 Tierfight wrote:
One word: micro
I agree: Helion + Banshee microed >>> Marine + Tank microed 10 times out of 10.
There is a way to turn it around, but I'm pretty sure you are too dumb to know what it is.
Have a nice day.
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calm down guys...im sure that troll would come around once he actually watch the replays...
I dont think marine tank medivac will counter this build...hellions are too mobile and gives the player much map control...i agree that thors give this build trouble, lost to it more than a couple of times...
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On February 23 2011 11:43 Tierfight wrote:
tanks, marines and medivacs definitely counter this build too. Stimpack just rapes all banshees
Thats what IMMvp did and won...
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On February 23 2011 11:59 twopint32oz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 11:43 Tierfight wrote:
tanks, marines and medivacs definitely counter this build too. Stimpack just rapes all banshees Thats what IMMvp did and won...
To be completely honest the skill difference between MvP and Hyperdub is pretty large. There were a number of times Hyperdub's control was off with things that have nothing to do with the build (letting your SCV line get wailed on by tanks? Run them away please...) as well as not dropping enough, or catching Marines with Hellions, etc. It was obvious that Hyperdub is new to the style, but even if he wasn't, I feel like MvP could probably have taken him with any strategy.
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Tierfight,
Replays, dog. You don't have them. Until you post them, your arguments are as unproven as saying ultralisks counter void rays in a straight-up fight. Prove your doubters wrong and provide some, or else concede.
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I wish there was an option to report quality of posts, maybe label them as spam or troll. That way, if a newbie like me wants to go through a helpful thread, I don't have to read all these troll/garbage posts.
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On February 23 2011 12:21 spybreak wrote:
I wish there was an option to report quality of posts, maybe label them as spam or troll. That way, if a newbie like me wants to go through a helpful thread, I don't have to read all these troll/garbage posts.
At the risk of going off-topic I'll respond to this.
You're right, and recently people have become more and more confused with these strategy forums as it's difficult to know who has the knowledge and experience to validate their claims and suggestions. TL is aware of the problem, at least, and the first step was creating highlighted posters. If you didn't notice already, people who have shown a lengthy history of constructive strategy discussion and are generally high-level players will have a blueish cast to their posts.
By no means should you only listen to them, but it gives you an idea of who can back up their posts with real games and real replays.
For everything else, you just need to take posts and suggestions with a grain of salt. Always think about why something should or should not work, just don't assume that it will. Starcraft 2 is above all a reactive game, and many situations do not have a clear cut response that you must do or you will lose (obviously there are exceptions to that). For the most part you will find people to be extremely helpful and informative, even if they are not high-level players.
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One of the better ways is to take note of the authors of the really long strategy/guide threads. The blue posts are more for pros and really high ranking semi-pro players rather than the same strategy forum regulars.
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On February 23 2011 11:19 Tierfight wrote:
iEchoic sounds like so arrogant "my build has no counter" and full of himself that I fucking hate him. He is stupid and cannot admit that his build DOES have counters. And he continuosly keeps saying that hellions counter marines, which is simply not fucking true.
Oh so there you have it. This guy HATES iEchoic. Nothing iEchoic and his supporters do or say will sound right to this Troll Warlord. Doesn't matter if he wins GSL 5, the troll will troll on. Enough trash already, why don't we just move on and ignore everything this guy might say? Let this reply be the last message about this thing.
Besides, this build is already proven effective. Read the rest of the thread and watch the VODs.
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United States7483 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:19 Tierfight wrote:
iEchoic sounds like so arrogant "my build has no counter" and full of himself that I fucking hate him. He is stupid and cannot admit that his build DOES have counters. And he continuosly keeps saying that hellions counter marines, which is simply not fucking true.
At times like this, I really wish there were a report feature on posts.
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I've personally had no problems dealing with this using the traditional marine/tank/medivac (few vikings) combo. This build is strong I agree but for some reason, I get the feeling that in the end, tank/marine owns just about anything.
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I understand that in TvP this build might be weaker (Echo said that stalkers are very good against banshees when blink is researched and upgrades and numbers are present), but shouldn't ravens help out against this? How about HT storms? Counter that with Seeker missiles? I hope a master level TvP replay in master league is posted soon.
I had been using banshees and ravens with great results against Toss but switched back to marine marauder medivac early aggression due to good HT storms.
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On February 23 2011 14:37 Setev wrote:
I understand that in TvP this build might be weaker (Echo said that stalkers are very good against banshees when blink is researched and upgrades and numbers are present), but shouldn't ravens help out against this? How about HT storms? Counter that with Seeker missiles? I hope a master level TvP replay in master league is posted soon.
I had been using banshees and ravens with great results against Toss but switched back to marine marauder medivac early aggression due to good HT storms.
If I read properly, this build isn't for TvP, it's for TvT. But he does have another nice build up for TvP, iirc. Check that one out.
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On February 23 2011 14:21 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 11:19 Tierfight wrote:
iEchoic sounds like so arrogant "my build has no counter" and full of himself that I fucking hate him. He is stupid and cannot admit that his build DOES have counters. And he continuosly keeps saying that hellions counter marines, which is simply not fucking true. At times like this, I really wish there were a report feature on posts.
don't worry, in the thread where the weaknesses of the iechoic build is discussed he said it doesn't count as an iechoic build if the build makes anything other than hellions banshees. He actually believes that people don't adapt their style of play based on infrmation scouted. It's really funny actually.
For example, he said that Thor rush counters this build. So I suggested that when you scout Thor rush you build tanks and delay the starports so you can afford the gas for it. He then yelled that it's no longer the iechoic build simply because the factory produced a tank instead of a hellion.
It's apparent that he doesn't actually know what he's talking about; don't be hard on him for being a little slow in understanding the guide. He's not really trolling, nor does he hate iechoic, he's just a little dumb and unadaptive in his strategic and tactical thinking that's all. He'll get better with enough practice.
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On February 23 2011 14:21 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 11:19 Tierfight wrote:
iEchoic sounds like so arrogant "my build has no counter" and full of himself that I fucking hate him. He is stupid and cannot admit that his build DOES have counters. And he continuosly keeps saying that hellions counter marines, which is simply not fucking true. At times like this, I really wish there were a report feature on posts.
PM one of the mods like Plexa or Manifesto7.
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On February 24 2011 00:11 Antisocialmunky wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 14:21 Whitewing wrote:On February 23 2011 11:19 Tierfight wrote:
iEchoic sounds like so arrogant "my build has no counter" and full of himself that I fucking hate him. He is stupid and cannot admit that his build DOES have counters. And he continuosly keeps saying that hellions counter marines, which is simply not fucking true. At times like this, I really wish there were a report feature on posts. PM one of the mods like Plexa or Manifesto7.
^
You can always PM a mod to take a look at the issue. Either way, Tierfight got banned by EvilTeletubby. What a hero :D
Now we can continue this discussion in a calm, collected manner.
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EPT
