EPT[G] iEchoic's 2fact2port TvT - Page 34
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spybreak
United States684 Posts
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
In you're guy's opinion, which marine in a marine clump should be focused fired by your hellions? Should I aim for the center marine to make my Hellions surround the ball point blank for maximum splash, or should I aim for the ones on the edge of the clump to "snipe off" the outer edges of the bioball? Should I use 2 hotkeys and juggle the hellions so half is attacking while the other half is retreating or should I keep them on one hotkey to ensure they fire at the same time in an attempt to kill the marines in 1 shot? | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On February 23 2011 10:41 Tierfight wrote: Marines actually counter blue flame hellions because hellions have latency in shooting after stopping movement and thus, gives marines a chance to dodge the fire. Okay, I think this is a troll. Well played. On February 23 2011 10:44 lorkac wrote: On a more specific note In you're guy's opinion, which marine in a marine clump should be focused fired by your hellions? Should I aim for the center marine to make my Hellions surround the ball point blank for maximum splash, or should I aim for the ones on the edge of the clump to "snipe off" the outer edges of the bioball? Should I use 2 hotkeys and juggle the hellions so half is attacking while the other half is retreating or should I keep them on one hotkey to ensure they fire at the same time in an attempt to kill the marines in 1 shot? I hate to sound simplistic, but I think 1aing is the best if you're fighting pure marines. Hellions form natural concaves very easily and fast because of their speed and attacking specific targets hinders that. If there are marines in a mix of units and you need to target specifically marines, I think it's sometimes best to actually attack one in the middle of a bunch of marines. This makes the hellions get a little bit closer and their splash is more effective. | ||
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Tierfight
Belgium49 Posts
On February 23 2011 10:44 iEchoic wrote: Okay, I think this is a troll. Well played. Marine CAN dodge hellion fire because there is delay between hellions movement stop and actually beginning of firing. If you honestly claim that perfect marine micro looses against blueflame hellions, then you are just plain stupid. | ||
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Tierfight
Belgium49 Posts
When I watch this day9 show with iEchoic, I recognized instantly that he lost because he sent his marines in front of the tanks when he arrived in the choke and most of his tanks did nothing, this is big mistake in micro which gives hellions good chance to kill those marines instantly letting banshees to kill tanks. If tanks were sent before marines, then outcome of the battle would have been totally different and iEchoic would have been raped. Besides that, there was so few hellions that it would have been rather easy job to execute marine micro with tanks against hellions. This build is so ridicilous, this is so killable build with basic marine tank micro. Oh fuck. No need for any fancy thor play. | ||
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Sevenofnines
United States167 Posts
On February 23 2011 10:55 Tierfight wrote: Normal marine tank push will kill this iEchoic build right of the bat. When I watch this day9 show with iEchoic, I recognized instantly that he lost because he sent his marines in front of the tanks when he arrived in the choke, this is big mistake in micro which gives hellions good chance to kill those marines instantly letting banshees to kill tanks. If tanks were sent before marines, then outcome of the battle would have been totally different and iEchoic would have been raped. Besides that, there was so few hellions that it would have been rather easy job to execute marine micro against hellions. LOL you are pretty much as dumb as they come. BANSHEES OUTRANGE MARINES. You send the Tanks first and the Banshees can pick them off and the marines won't even be in range to do anything about it and you will get rolled. | ||
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Tierfight
Belgium49 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:00 Sevenofnines wrote: LOL you are pretty much as dumb as they come. BANSHEES OUTRANGE MARINES. You send the Tanks first and the Banshees can pick them off and the marines won't even be in range to do anything about it and you will get rolled. Get rid of hellions and you are free to shoot banshees. Of course banshees can try to micro but everytime they need to stop to shoot, there is numbers of marines shooting at it (believe me, 6 marines kill banshee very fast) and more marines are coming. | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:04 Tierfight wrote: Get rid of hellions and you are free to shoot banshees. Of course banshees can try to micro but everytime they need to stop to shoot, there is numbers of marines shooting at it and more marines are coming. Okay, tell me exactly how you'll get rid of the hellions? We're not just going to suicide them into a tank line. That's the point of this build. It's strategic positioning and a constant micro/harass battle. If you slip up once with your marine/tank, you lose your army. You unsiege and get caught off guard, you will lose all of your marines, just like you would lose your tanks if a bioball caught your tanks unsieged. It's not black and white. You seriously have no credibility here. Give us replays, something more than your one line cracks and baseless arguments. | ||
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Tierfight
Belgium49 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:08 Synystyr wrote: Okay, tell me exactly how you'll get rid of the hellions? We're not just going to suicide them into a tank line. That's the point of this build. It's strategic positioning and a constant micro/harass battle. If you slip up once with your marine/tank, you lose your army. You unsiege and get caught off guard, you will lose all of your marines, just like you would lose your tanks if a bioball caught your tanks unsieged. It's not black and white. You seriously have no credibility here. Give us replays, something more than your one line cracks and baseless arguments. With good micro, there is no way iEchoic build can win against marine tank push. | ||
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Sevenofnines
United States167 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:04 Tierfight wrote: Get rid of hellions and you are free to shoot banshees. Of course banshees can try to micro but everytime they need to stop to shoot, there is numbers of marines shooting at it (believe me, 6 marines kill banshee very fast) and more marines are coming. You aren't going to get rid of the helions since they produce basically as fast as marines. You just sent your tank in front of your marines like a moron and it got sniped off by banshees that outrange your marines. You now have a a bunch of marines against helions + banshees who will mop them up easily. Furthermore, trying to focus fire banshees causes marines to clump up, making them easily owned by helions. In ANY situation where you send the tank in front like that, you will get creamed. Not to mention that with halfway decent scoot & shoot micro, 1 Banshee could easily kill 6 marines. | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:12 Tierfight wrote: With good micro, there is no way iEchoic build can win against marine tank push. I argue vice versa. There is no way you can push up the entire map without unsiege enough to get your marines picked off. Or cloaked banshees can force scans until you run out entirely and then they are free to pick your tanks off. There is no way you can push once you have no detection. | ||
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Tierfight
Belgium49 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:14 Sevenofnines wrote: You aren't going to get rid of the helions since they produce basically as fast as marines. You just sent your tank in front of your marines like a moron and it got sniped off by banshees that outrange your marines. You now have a a bunch of marines against helions + banshees who will mop them up easily. Furthermore, trying to focus fire banshees causes marines to clump up, making them easily owned by helions. In ANY situation where you send the tank in front like that, you will get creamed. Not to mention that with halfway decent scoot & shoot micro, 1 Banshee could easily kill 6 marines. You are stupid, if you think that in that situation those tanks cannot kill those hellions fast enough before banshees kill tanks. Or if hellions run away, marines are free to rearrange and shoot stuff. | ||
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laLAlA[uC]
Canada963 Posts
I'm 1 page too late. | ||
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Tierfight
Belgium49 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:16 Tierfight wrote: You are stupid, if you think that in that situation those tanks cannot kill those hellions fast enough before banshees kill tanks. Or if hellions run away, marines are free to rearrange and shoot stuff. Why isn't this guy banned yet? He provides absolutely no evidence to back up his claims and is actively trolling every thread about this TvT style. I haven't seen a single one of your posts that isn't pure theorycrafting. iEchoic has posted a number of replays of him beating top level players with this style, against everything from bio to tank/viking play. Post some replays of yourself executing the theorycrafting you're babbling about and maybe we'll shut up. Until then, feel free to keep raging. EDIT: Wow @ the post above me. He really is raging. Maybe you should calm down and realize that iEchoic and others like him executing this strategy doesn't really harm you in any way. | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:19 Tierfight wrote: iEchoic sounds like so arrogant "my build has no counter" and full of himself that I fucking hate him. He is stupid and cannot admit that his build DOES have counters. And he continuosly keeps saying that hellions counter marines, which is simply not fucking true. Arrogant? I don't think I've once seen a single example of him being arrogant or out of line with defending himself. If you really do hate him, then I take your opinions to be completely biased and not backed by solid evidence, but instead with a rage stemming from some sort of inability to comprehend that this build IS ACTUALLY DECENT! Many of the members of this community refuse to use the word "counter". Day9 being the forerunner of that pack. There are weaknesses and strengths, but just because you made a Thor doesn't mean it's game over, or that you went tank/marine and there is simply no way that this build could possibly win. And hellions kill marines really damn well. I don't know what Starcraft you're playing....but my hellions roast them good =] | ||
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PineappleSage
Canada109 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:19 Tierfight wrote: iEchoic sounds like so arrogant "my build has no counter" and full of himself that I fucking hate him. He is stupid and cannot admit that his build DOES have counters. And he continuosly keeps saying that hellions counter marines, which is simply not fucking true. common =.= hellions own rines he said in the daily that thor drops are a pain its a good build and he should be proud of it. When ppl ask about if player dose X he says what he practiced to beat it is. | ||
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Tierfight
Belgium49 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:23 ZasZ. wrote: Why isn't this guy banned yet? He provides absolutely no evidence to back up his claims and is actively trolling every thread about this TvT style. I haven't seen a single one of your posts that isn't pure theorycrafting. iEchoic has posted a number of replays of him beating top level players with this style, against everything from bio to tank/viking play. Post some replays of yourself executing the theorycrafting you're babbling about and maybe we'll shut up. Until then, feel free to keep raging. EDIT: Wow @ the post above me. He really is raging. Maybe you should calm down and realize that iEchoic and others like him executing this strategy doesn't really harm you in any way. Beating top players with this doesnt proove anything else but beating top players with it. It prooves, that not so many have been able to play enough good with tanks and marines/thors and failed miserably. The point of theorycrafting, is finding a way to actually counter a build rather than trying to do stuff randomly and hope to strike something. And in theory, marines will own hellions so badly that it is not even funny anymore. | ||
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Sevenofnines
United States167 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:16 Tierfight wrote: You are stupid, if you think that in that situation those tanks cannot kill those hellions fast enough before banshees kill tanks. Or if hellions run away, marines are free to rearrange and shoot stuff. Why would the Helions even be in range in your retarded situation? You stupidly send the Tanks in FRONT of the marines (hey its your strat, not mine). The Helions would simply a little off screen while the Banshees snipe the Tanks. Your marines can't do shit to stop this because they are behind the tanks and outranged by the Banshees. In order to protect your tanks, you MUST move your marines in front of the tanks, which opens them up to getting owned by Helions. It doesn't even matter if all the Helions die. They only have to kill enough Marines so that the Banshees can mop up the rest which is easy when you consider that Banshees can kill Marines anyway with halfway decent micro. | ||
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Tierfight
Belgium49 Posts
On February 23 2011 11:36 Sevenofnines wrote: Why would the Helions even be in range in your retarded situation? You stupidly send the Tanks in FRONT of the marines (hey its your strat, not mine). The Helions would simply a little off screen while the Banshees snipe the Tanks. Your marines can't do shit to stop this because they are behind the tanks and outranged by the Banshees. In order to protect your tanks, you MUST move your marines in front of the tanks, which opens them up to getting owned by Helions. It doesn't even matter if all the Helions die. They only have to kill enough Marines so that the Banshees can mop up the rest which is easy when you consider that Banshees can kill Marines anyway with halfway decent micro. One word: micro User was banned for this post. | ||
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