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[G] iEchoic's 2fact2port TvT - Page 36

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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CowWithGun
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden18 Posts
February 23 2011 15:33 GMT
#701
Hello all.
I have been tying this build against terran and I love it! It makes TvT fun! But I have one little problem. I am having trubble killing them of. You can't attack them if use static defence.

I realise that I make many misstakes but I did feal that I was in the lead a long time. What what my BIG error in this game?

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/27035963/download/Steppes_of_War.SC2Replay

Thanks all!
shutdown_exploded
Profile Joined June 2010
United States133 Posts
February 23 2011 16:20 GMT
#702
On February 24 2011 00:33 CowWithGun wrote:
. I am having trubble killing them of. You can't attack them if use static defence.


you don't have to?
expand all over the entire map.
once you get about 10 banshees you can lol at turrets.
but if it's like steps of war and they ring their base with turrets and refuse to leave, get double air upgrades and and yamato cannon.
Tyrannon
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany113 Posts
February 23 2011 16:27 GMT
#703
@Tierfight

if the Hellionplayer is a-moving, you MIGHT be right!

BUT if the Hellionplayer is mikroing as well, he´ll move to pointblankrange. Range = 0 No way in Hell, a Marine can run out of that Blue Flame.

Do you know that the flamerange=6?
ToastieNL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands845 Posts
February 23 2011 16:28 GMT
#704
Hellion attack range is 5; Splash range is 6
Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.
ROFL_copter
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1 Post
February 23 2011 21:03 GMT
#705
@CowWithGun

On a nitpicky note, you should work on the build order: 2nd refinery -> 2 factories -> tech lab on rax

As for the big picture, I think it all went downhill for you when you became passive and switched to thors for some reason. You were doing great and had the game won @ 15:00 when you killed his entire army. All you had to do was attack with a couple hellions and you would have killed all his scvs and the few marines that were popping out. You could have attacked with your 1 thor and won, but you sat back allowed him to rebuild and gain air superiority with more vikings and BC's than you.

On a fundamentals note, you should work on keeping constant scv/depot production. "Probes and Pylons" as Day[9] would say.
CowWithGun
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden18 Posts
February 23 2011 21:58 GMT
#706
Thank you for your post. Now I see that I should've produced more hellions to kill him of. I was just surprised by all the missleturrets.

Yeah I usually play better. I picked this replay because I've had some trubble with finnishing them of.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
February 24 2011 00:01 GMT
#707
On February 24 2011 01:27 Tyrannon wrote:
Do you know that the flamerange=6?

On February 24 2011 01:28 ToastieNL wrote:
Hellion attack range is 5; Splash range is 6


The hellion does have slightly more range than it has attack range, but it does not have a total range of 6. It has a total splash range of 5.15. From Liquipedia's (Wiki)Hellion entry:

Despite being able to activate its weapon within a range of 5, the Hellion will deal AoE damage up to a range of 5.15. The flamethrower's stream is about 0.15 wide.


Still, hellions are fast enough and deal enough damage that they should be able to deal with marines fairly effectively.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
GuYuTe-
Profile Joined February 2005
United States550 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-24 00:21:28
February 24 2011 00:20 GMT
#708
Been playing this style and countering this style in my past like 10 TvTs at @ 3100 diamond level. It's actually quite humorous how many people are doing this build. Sim City is the most crucial element to countering this style imo. I like to sim city with every one of my first 7 or 8 buildings, completely walling off both entrances to behind the minerals and then 1-1-1 into expo behind tank and constant viking production off 2 starports into 3 later game. A lot of people doing this build are pretty predictable where they will fly with their first dropship so you can pick it off sometimes with your first viking or first 2 vikings. I've yet to see it really executed superbly and have won every time against this build, several games where we both did the build and it was just a race to fry scvs/snipe banshee. It's definitely a great build but like iEchoic said it's really hard to execute correctly and hence relatively easy to counter imo.
nyczbrandon
Profile Joined January 2011
United States124 Posts
February 24 2011 00:44 GMT
#709
i tried this build but lost to someone who went mainly marauders so my preignightered hellions didnt do much
Senorcuidado
Profile Joined May 2010
United States700 Posts
February 24 2011 02:22 GMT
#710
This definitely takes practice. I just had some troubles on Crevasse against mass mass turrets, I didn't mass expand as much as I should have and my bc transition was a bit late but I still almost had it. It's hard to be Zerg in this matchup

It's totally different from the style of Terran that I'm used to but whenever I lose it never feels like a build order loss, it just feels like I should have done several different things better. It definitely feels like ZvT, you contain them and hurt their economy, beware the death push, expand more and win with air control and attrition or break them with t3 units. Very fun :D
Sar
Profile Joined September 2010
United States30 Posts
February 24 2011 07:28 GMT
#711
This is such an annoying build since everybody is doing it. It's popular. Congrats iEchoic! :D

Now if only people could do it right and not suicide everything they have into my turrets and tanks. I generally do a two base turtle into a slow tank/rine/viking push whenever I see this coming, because few people ever really deviate from the Helion/Banshee BO and don't really get a good expansion up in time to match production. I'm thinking of just thoring it one of these times to really beat it fast.

Rarely play anybody good enough to pull this build off, which means more wins for me. Really helped me in the TvT department. Diamond, here I come.
Everything you hear is a lie. Everything you see is a lie. Everything is a lie.
EnsisRaizo
Profile Joined February 2011
25 Posts
February 24 2011 09:01 GMT
#712
Lowbie player here, so my opinion isn't one of much value, but I wanted to thank you for this build. I don't like using siege tanks either and this build has given me the most fun games I have yet to play on the ladder. TvT was by far my least favorite matchup before and is now easily my favorite game to play.
VieuxSinge
Profile Joined February 2011
France231 Posts
February 25 2011 19:41 GMT
#713
I can't deal with the 3 rax into marauders opening. The push comes at ~8min and i don't have my banshee yet if I buy a medivac first (sometimes I don't even have my starport finished). The helions+preigniter can't kill those marauders. Should I build a bunker and 2 more marines? I don't know how to handle it...
Another clue to my existence.
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
February 25 2011 19:58 GMT
#714
If you scout the 3 rax and one gas, then ofc you should bunker up. Once you hold off the attack you're free to get air control and pretty much easy win from there.
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
FallDownMarigold
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3710 Posts
February 25 2011 22:20 GMT
#715
So, to succeed against this build:

Pretend you're playing against a Zerg that is playing muta/ling/bling.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
February 26 2011 00:19 GMT
#716
On February 26 2011 07:20 FallDownMarigold wrote:
So, to succeed against this build:

Pretend you're playing against a Zerg that is playing muta/ling/bling.



Basically, but you should also assume that said zerg's mutalisks kill things about 5 times as fast.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
February 26 2011 00:43 GMT
#717
On February 26 2011 09:19 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2011 07:20 FallDownMarigold wrote:
So, to succeed against this build:

Pretend you're playing against a Zerg that is playing muta/ling/bling.



Basically, but you should also assume that said zerg's mutalisks kill things about 5 times as fast.


the banelings also don't die automatically.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
iEchoic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1776 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-26 09:59:38
February 26 2011 09:57 GMT
#718
Just wanted to point out that the BC speed buff on PTR is actually a pretty significant buff to the build. Just tried it out and BCs move sooooo much faster. This is going to really help the mobility of the lategame composition and surely sell me on always going BCs lategame if you have air control.

The stim build time nerf is also another significant buff to the build as it slows down marauder or 3rax stim timing pushes.

Overall verdict is that the next patch should strengthen the build significantly.
vileEchoic -- clanvile.com
valheru
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia966 Posts
February 26 2011 10:29 GMT
#719
^^seconded.
20 seconds is a long time and BC speed went up by about 30% 1.4 to 1.8.

This build is going to be alot stronger next patch in the early and late game.
Grats on the GSL games btw.
I reject your reality and substitute my own
orKisT
Profile Joined October 2010
2 Posts
February 26 2011 17:06 GMT
#720
With all due respect to Mr. Echoic, I submit my own humble thoughts on countering this build as a 2200 Master Terran:

Proxy Banshee Cloak Rush

This is my standard tvt opener. The key to the proxy port is obviously location, and, there are certain spots on the map where you can always get away with a proxy port. I consider it safe enough that I do a proxy every single game. TVT is by far my best matchup.

One detail to my proxy port strategy is that I include a very early tech lab on my factory at my main so that a scan would make it appear as if I am rushing tank, when really, I am rushing banshee with a port very close to his main.

Anyways, I have found that people that go Echoics build do not build Towers. Thus, if you can survive the initial hellion harass, you generally have map control with your banshees until the Raven comes out. During this time, I have been able inflict great damage on my opponents economy.

After the initial two banshees, I throw up more Starports and just start massing Tank-Viking.

To counter the hellions, I have been working on walling off my mineral line and placing a tank in my mineral line.

In any event, I just wanted to say that I win the great majority of my TVTs performing this opening, including against Echoic's new build!

Cloaked banshee FTW, business as usual for humanity.

(first TL post! so be nice!)


"You trespass on MY land?" -Grubby
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