On December 04 2014 04:34 Mozdk wrote: sOs did a 1 gate blink - > robo - > +2 gates - > fast 3rd on Overgrowth today. Is there a good guide to this build anywhere? On TL or another site. I basicly have one build vs terran and it's not working for me at all.
Still needs answering...
Still need answer.
Watch the game; same opener.
Threaten with Blink Stalkers, decide whether to add gates to kill or add a third and contain.
It's a bit of a bluff build. You don't need a guide to it, really...
Yes I do. It helps me a lot when I am being told what to look for.
And take that game. He added forges at around 11 or 12 as far as I remember. Maybe he wouldn't have added at all depending on what he saw. Stuff like that I need to be told. Because otherwise, why am I winning only 22% of games vs T....
You have to understand this is a very rare build, a real best of X build. It does have weaknesses and it isn't perfectly mapped out. Nobody can write a properly backed guide about a build like that.
If you're that low vs T there's other, more major problems than your opening bo. Wanna post a rep?
Well this is what I try to do as it is what I was told was most standard.
It hasn't been worked for me. And it was all I did for 4 months. And I also litterally never win vs mech. And in diamond that's maybe 10-15% of games. So that's a big part of it too. I make a lot of immorals, and still take mpst fights where I lose 3-4 minerals everytime they lose 1...
Shocksc2 even made a YT video about the replay I send to you... if you want to see it:
Even better: Here is a replay from a few days ago in a long PvT on Ohana where I was going for this build.
So during late game as terran, I usually have a lot of barracks and want to make a lot of marines and marauders. So I just spam the "A" and "D" keys. Do you guys also just spam the keys or do you hold down the key and wait for half a second for the keyboard to start spamming by itself?
On December 09 2014 07:58 NexT_SC2 wrote: So during late game as terran, I usually have a lot of barracks and want to make a lot of marines and marauders. So I just spam the "A" and "D" keys. Do you guys also just spam the keys or do you hold down the key and wait for half a second for the keyboard to start spamming by itself?
I usually spam the D keys because there is usually not that many queue slots for marauders, but I actually hold down on the marines because usually the barracks have reactors so it tends to be faster.
On December 09 2014 09:49 capcomist wrote: What's the standard time to get gas in ZvT (assuming both players are playing pretty standard)?
since you wrote zvt and not tvz i assume you mean for a zerg player.
if you are opening with zergling speed then the most standard builds are 15h 16p 17g or hatch-gas-pool. with hatch-gas-pool your gas can be built on any supply up to 17 depending on how greedy you want to be, and you can also add another drone between gas and pool to be even more greedy. typically you will pull 2 drones off gas at ~88 gas (3 drones x 4 gas per trip = 12 gas, then two of the drones peel off to minerals) so you don't end up with too much gas while youre taking your third and droning. i usually open 15h 17g 16p unless it's a smaller map or a good reaper map in which case i go 15h 16p 17g so i can get 4-6 lings out earlier
long story short it really doesn't matter all that much, it's just a tradeoff between an earlier pool which is safer against proxies or a later pool which means you have more mineral drones while mining your first 100 gas for ling speed. 15h 17g 16p lines you up almost perfectly to start 2x queens and ling speed as soon as your pool is done. if you're in gold league and you really hate being 2raxed you can just move the pool up in your build
you can also open gasless in zvt. if you're opening 1/1 roaches then you just open like gasless zvz. if you're going gasless into ling/bane/muta, which is less common, you would want your double gas a bit earlier than a roach build so you can get ling speed at a reasonable time - maybe around 5:30, but i almost never open gasless against terran so i'm not sure
generally speaking you want 2 gases mining when you start your evo chambers and add gases 3-6 some time after starting lair depending on whether you're looking for fast gas and fast mutas or a ground-heavy ling/bane midgame which can be supported off of 3base/4gas. saturate your 4th base gas as soon as it is safely possible to do so as gases 7 and 8 are a critical tipping point in lategame zvt/zvp
On December 09 2014 07:58 NexT_SC2 wrote: So during late game as terran, I usually have a lot of barracks and want to make a lot of marines and marauders. So I just spam the "A" and "D" keys. Do you guys also just spam the keys or do you hold down the key and wait for half a second for the keyboard to start spamming by itself?
not sure if you know this but you can change your keyboard's repeat speed in your windows settings
On December 04 2014 04:34 Mozdk wrote: sOs did a 1 gate blink - > robo - > +2 gates - > fast 3rd on Overgrowth today. Is there a good guide to this build anywhere? On TL or another site. I basicly have one build vs terran and it's not working for me at all.
On December 04 2014 04:34 Mozdk wrote: sOs did a 1 gate blink - > robo - > +2 gates - > fast 3rd on Overgrowth today. Is there a good guide to this build anywhere? On TL or another site. I basicly have one build vs terran and it's not working for me at all.
Still needs answering...
Still need answer.
You should be watching Rain's stream more often. He does this build in PvT everygame and its awesome!. It's basically the greediest variation of the bigboy build, skipping 2 gates for a faster robo and taking a third as your robo bay finishes.
I am just lost. I do not know how to not get so depressed and tilted when I lose. I always say I really really want to bet better, but I honestly actively prevent and stop myself from doing so. I get so mad after loses that I just.... can't do anything. I don't learn from mistakes, and I lose the the same shit over and over again (no scout, supply block myself like crazy, forget injects for minutes at a time, stuff like that). If I lose one game, I'm done for they day because I'm so tilted for the next game I do really REALLY stupid shit.
I'm pretty sure I've asked this before (maybe multiple times) but again, I actively stop myself from improving and never get help. But am I fucked? Is this not changable?
On December 14 2014 02:43 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Is there anyway to change your play mentality?
filtersc goes into this stuff, like what he calls 'the gg effect' or somthing, check out his vods on youtube
So I finally got around to watching his GG Effect video, but I don't really think it addresses my issues. I kind of have the opposite problem of what he's talking about. He's talking about players who blame the opponent and BM and get mad at the game, I get mad at myself because I realize the mistakes I make right away and I feel like I'm complete shit and that I'll never improve. It's not about gg'ing, it's about trying to stop self loathing when I do somethign stupid and actually learning from mistakes (which I rarely seem to do even though I'm very aware of those mistakes)
I also struggle with thinking midgame, I find it very overwhelming and playing too much can actually give me a headache. I think this is just due to inexperience and not have any natural instinct though, but it is discouraging on top of it all.
well you already know this but addressing self-hate is a tall order regardless of the starcraft/video game aspect
from my personal experience i think the best "quick fix" for you starcraftwise might just be to force yourself to take a break after every game or at least after every loss. when i'm laddering and i get on tilt i find that i tend to re-queue a lot faster and use stupid aggressive builds more often after a frustrating loss, and it becomes a spiraling effect. alt+tab or log off, then hop back on when you get the itch to play more, you'll probably have a better mindset. if you don't want to leave your video game fantasy world, go play arcade or campaign or something where you can game in peace rather than worrying about the chore of victory
as for thinking in the midgame, that's pretty much the same thing as what casters and players call "tunnel vision." it has to do with your brain, of course, but it's also just a universal fact that juggling strategies in the middle of a long RTS match is difficult. i had bad tunnel vision issues when i was in lower leagues and i still get tunnel vision sometimes. what i used to do is actually take my hands off the keyboard and do nothing but look at my base, the minimap, my opponent's base, etc. and refuse to act until i have a plan, at the very least a plan for my next move. even if it's as simple as "i'm being attacked, go defend this location and split the right number of units" or "try to pressure the 4th base now," it will help you get back on track strategically
also, playing offrace is incredibly useful for maintaining midgame strategy because when you've played the matchup from the other side you have a much better sense of how much money he can have or what strategies he's likely to use based on the game time, situation and map.
On December 14 2014 13:13 brickrd wrote: well you already know this but addressing self-hate is a tall order regardless of the starcraft/video game aspect
from my personal experience i think the best "quick fix" for you starcraftwise might just be to force yourself to take a break after every game or at least after every loss. when i'm laddering and i get on tilt i find that i tend to re-queue a lot faster and use stupid aggressive builds more often after a frustrating loss, and it becomes a spiraling effect. alt+tab or log off, then hop back on when you get the itch to play more, you'll probably have a better mindset. if you don't want to leave your video game fantasy world, go play arcade or campaign or something where you can game in peace rather than worrying about the chore of victory
as for thinking in the midgame, that's pretty much the same thing as what casters and players call "tunnel vision." it has to do with your brain, of course, but it's also just a universal fact that juggling strategies in the middle of a long RTS match is difficult. i had bad tunnel vision issues when i was in lower leagues and i still get tunnel vision sometimes. what i used to do is actually take my hands off the keyboard and do nothing but look at my base, the minimap, my opponent's base, etc. and refuse to act until i have a plan, at the very least a plan for my next move. even if it's as simple as "i'm being attacked, go defend this location and split the right number of units" or "try to pressure the 4th base now," it will help you get back on track strategically
Hmm, interesting idea. I often feel like I need to get faster, but maybe slowing down and just focusing on thinking could really help. i'll try that out.
On December 14 2014 13:13 brickrd wrote: what i used to do is actually take my hands off the keyboard and do nothing but look at my base, the minimap, my opponent's base, etc. and refuse to act until i have a plan, at the very least a plan for my next move. even if it's as simple as "i'm being attacked, go defend this location and split the right number of units" or "try to pressure the 4th base now," it will help you get back on track strategically
A practical way to do this is to play custom games with someone you know, and actually PAUSE the game at some points. Not when you are being multi-drop, not when you see that you have 1.5k ressources or anything, but when nothing special is happening (/anymore) and yet you can't even ask yourself "what should I do now?". I would say that what is important, is to be able to answer questions like: '-Where am I at, especially compared to my initial plan game?' (pretty straight forward if nothing happened) '-What is my opponent doing?', and more precisely 'What can/can't he do?' '-Given the previous info, what should I do/be aware of/be careful about now?'
To give a typical example: you just got photon rushed. In some way you managed to survived. But you cannot rely on any usual timing anymore, from neither your build or your opponent's. Then pause the game for a minute so you can quickly count how much both of you spent/loss, and where you are re-starting from (do you have extra bases ready to produce workers? Did you mine gas? Do you have production buildings? etc...), which will help you determine what should be your next move (admitting that you are way too far behind to come back might also be one of them, but nothing prevents you from trying!).
I'd rather not see you pausing on the ladder (for strategical purposes) since it would just be very unfair, and if would take way to long to explain/ask it to all of your randomly found opponents.
Also, it might seem very cumbersome, but you don't need to do this thousand of times to see big improvement. In just a few games like this, you will realize that when you pause, all the answer will be close enough to an other game, so you only need a couple seconds. So at this point, you can indeed do without the pausing, and just taking your hands off to give you the time to figure everything out.
On December 17 2014 12:25 aXbeG wrote: Standard defensive build order for TvZ? I sometime get caught a lot by early slow zergling rushes or in general a lot of early pressure.
I like how you don't even make the effort of phrasing a question.
Look for games of Terran opening with a reaper, a reactor, 2/4 marines, factory into banshees. This is the most scout-oriented build order Terran has and should never die to Zerg aggression.
Look for the ForGG VODs in DreamHack Winter, for example. He usually opens Banshees.
How much micro does templar openings in PvT require for protoss?
As a low league terran, I still have a lot of trouble vs templar builds. I find it very frustrating when I feel that protoss's only micro requirement is where to storm. Chargelots are pure amove units. Also, the protoss doesn't really have to worry about splitting up his army to stop drops. He can warp in 10 zealots wherever a drop lands. So protoss can play a very forgiving style, where he doesn't have to micro in battle, doesn't have to worry about positioning, doesn't have to do anything but basic macro. If protoss wants to think a bit more, he can get a warp prism and warp in 10 zealots in terrans main, while pressuring the front. Virtually every single gold league terran will just fall apart and lose either their entire army or their entire main worker line, and quickly lose the game. (Source: experience on NA ladder from playing toss).
Meanwhile terran has to stutter step constantly, and micro their hearts out to survive. Sure, a really well controlled terran army in the hands of Bomber or Innovation or Maru can fight on equal footing, but the imbalance in APM is really hard to handle for someone who plays for fun and doesn't have the time or ability to play like a pro.
I'm not trying to whine. It's just that from playing both sides of the matchup, I have experienced a drastic difference in difficulty for one race compared to the other, which I believe is fundamentally wrong in an RTS game, and I'd like to know if I am missing something. Thanks!
On December 23 2014 08:46 TheLordofAwesome wrote: How much micro does templar openings in PvT require for protoss?
As a low league terran, I still have a lot of trouble vs templar builds. I find it very frustrating when I feel that protoss's only micro requirement is where to storm. Chargelots are pure amove units. Also, the protoss doesn't really have to worry about splitting up his army to stop drops. He can warp in 10 zealots wherever a drop lands. So protoss can play a very forgiving style, where he doesn't have to micro in battle, doesn't have to worry about positioning, doesn't have to do anything but basic macro. If protoss wants to think a bit more, he can get a warp prism and warp in 10 zealots in terrans main, while pressuring the front. Virtually every single gold league terran will just fall apart and lose either their entire army or their entire main worker line, and quickly lose the game. (Source: experience on NA ladder from playing toss).
Meanwhile terran has to stutter step constantly, and micro their hearts out to survive. Sure, a really well controlled terran army in the hands of Bomber or Innovation or Maru can fight on equal footing, but the imbalance in APM is really hard to handle for someone who plays for fun and doesn't have the time or ability to play like a pro.
I'm not trying to whine. It's just that from playing both sides of the matchup, I have experienced a drastic difference in difficulty for one race compared to the other, which I believe is fundamentally wrong in an RTS game, and I'd like to know if I am missing something. Thanks!
This is not exactly a simple question, but i'll answer it as quickly as i can.
You are definetly missing something... I've been playing all 3 races one after another. My general feeling was yours, before i started playing protoss as my main race (i'm now zerg).
You seem to be talking exclusively about late game situations. Warp 10 zealots here and there means that the protoss has 10+ gates, is not supply blocked/capped and has enough of a bank to do it. The early game is the culprit, here : you must pressure the protoss as soon as you have a decent bio force (with stim and combat shield). You seem to think that it's easy for a protoss to defend 2 bases at once in the early game (pre colossi) : it's not. Also, try to use mines versus zealots : there are insanely efficient versus them. Photon overcharge ? drop the main. PvT early game is super weak if the terran is aggressive (which he definetly should be).
protoss doesn't really have to worry about splitting up his army to stop drops
Play protoss, please. No 5 games, play 200 ladder games as protoss and you'll see if it's that easy to win versus terran. If the terran lets you get a deathball without ever being aggressive, it does not count : of course at this point you just a-move and kill him. This terran is just plain bad, then.
EPT
