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How am I supposed to be controlling my units as zerg?:
I see many resources saying that I am supposed to give melee a control group, ranged a control group, mutas a group, baneline, infestor, viper, corruptor, swarm host, etc.
However when I watch the streams I don't see them with a ton of control groups like this.
Also how do I use the subgroup command. Is this just there in order for me to use the different abilities of units within a control group, and if so then why even have the different control groups in the first place if I can just tab through the different abilities of units in the control group?
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United States4883 Posts
On March 23 2014 21:47 Silentce wrote:
How am I supposed to be controlling my units as zerg?:
I see many resources saying that I am supposed to give melee a control group, ranged a control group, mutas a group, baneline, infestor, viper, corruptor, swarm host, etc.
However when I watch the streams I don't see them with a ton of control groups like this.
Also how do I use the subgroup command. Is this just there in order for me to use the different abilities of units within a control group, and if so then why even have the different control groups in the first place if I can just tab through the different abilities of units in the control group?
Muta/ling/bling -> 1 for mutas (+ overseer), 2 for ling/bling/ultras (+ overseer), 3 for casters/additional group of ling/bling.
Roach/hydra/viper -> 1 for roach/hydra (+ overseer), 2 for vipers (generally + corruptors as well), 3 for additional group of roach/hydra
Those are the BASIC hotkey layouts for armies. Of course, lategame armies that include queens, infestors, vipers, and swarm hosts can get really hectic.
As for subgroups, it's generally faster and more efficient to have separate hotkeys, but some things like shift-clicking and tabbing can sometimes be more effective than juggling 4-5 army hotkeys. The general rule I use is: if it has a commonly used ability, it needs its own hotkey (i.e., infestors/vipers/queens/swarm hosts (burrow) should all be kept on separate hotkeys). Units without abilities like roaches, hydras, or lings can go on pretty much any hotkey without disturbing anything.
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On March 23 2014 19:07 And G wrote:
Theoretical (at least for me) question from a mapmaker, looking for input from players who have actual experience with this: Is it really a bad thing when the main mineral line or base can be sieged/nuked from the natural low ground? It seems to me this is only a problem for Zerg anyway, and when you get to a point where your opponent has tanks or nukes and you don't have a natural, the game's over for Zerg either way, right?
Theoretically yes if they are at your nat sieging your main it is probably over in ZvT. However, in PvP and TvT it could cause a problems. Terran fast tank pushes could be guardedly strong, also marauder rushes with a bunker below the mineral line. Things like that. Actually bunker rushes would become obscenely strong.
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On March 23 2014 21:47 Silentce wrote:
How am I supposed to be controlling my units as zerg?:
I see many resources saying that I am supposed to give melee a control group, ranged a control group, mutas a group, baneline, infestor, viper, corruptor, swarm host, etc.
However when I watch the streams I don't see them with a ton of control groups like this.
Also how do I use the subgroup command. Is this just there in order for me to use the different abilities of units within a control group, and if so then why even have the different control groups in the first place if I can just tab through the different abilities of units in the control group?
One of the main reasons you want to use control groups is to enable better control of your army during fights. It is far easier to push one control group and send your ling/bling attack a force, push another button and use your muta's to kill medivacs then it is to manually select everything.
SC2John uses a similar setup to me.
1 mutas / 2 ground army / 3 casters.
1 roach hydra / 2 infestors / 3 anything else
1 roach hydra / 2 swarm hosts / 3 air stuff
` or ~ key is always used for my offensive/creed spreading queens
I also utilise group 5 for defense, in ZvT I will always have a group of about 10 lings and 2 banelings hotkeyed to 5. That way I can easily defend drops with it. In ZvP I will occasionally use 5 for broodlord's as well as they are so much slower then everything else I like them to be on a seperate key. 4 is my hatch key.
You can have different sorts of units on one hotkey for spell casters etc, but it can become quite tricky. Tabbing through three units to find the right one to get that spell off you needed RIGHT then. That will often lead to delayed spell casts. You will probably find that the pros who use one hotkey are also manually selecting and commanding their units mid battle.
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What is easy and all around protoss opener to learn some macro and controlling units. I am noob in this game!
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United States4883 Posts
On March 24 2014 06:47 meebo wrote:
What is easy and all around protoss opener to learn some macro and controlling units. I am noob in this game!
I highly suggest learning a 4-gate as the most basic of builds. Once you feel comfortable winning with that a fair amount, 3-gate/robo is also a solid place to start. I suggest taking a look at this guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/446605-protoss-guide-for-newer-players-wip
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Just got completely owned by Zealot/Immortal allin, when I thought I pretty much had it handled. I had 74 lings 3 spines +3 queens and hydras coming, though the hydras could probably have been 30 seconds faster. Anyway he ripped right through my lings with about 23 zealots and 2 immortals. 1+ attack really destroys zero upgraded lings. It was a roflstomp.
Whats the best way to deal with this timing? When can you expect it to hit at the earliest? 8 mins?
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United States4883 Posts
On March 24 2014 20:59 JacobShock wrote:
Just got completely owned by Zealot/Immortal allin, when I thought I pretty much had it handled. I had 74 lings 3 spines +3 queens and hydras coming, though the hydras could probably have been 30 seconds faster. Anyway he ripped right through my lings with about 23 zealots and 2 immortals. 1+ attack really destroys zero upgraded lings. It was a roflstomp.
Whats the best way to deal with this timing? When can you expect it to hit at the earliest? 8 mins?
O.o why did you have 74 lings with no upgrades?
If this is a 2-base attack, it should hit ~9:30. The only way to really deal with this type of allin is to get an emergency roach warren, make a lot of roaches, and do a lot of kiting. A faster version comes without chargelots and has time warp.
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On March 24 2014 04:42 ThePastor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2014 19:07 And G wrote:
Theoretical (at least for me) question from a mapmaker, looking for input from players who have actual experience with this: Is it really a bad thing when the main mineral line or base can be sieged/nuked from the natural low ground? It seems to me this is only a problem for Zerg anyway, and when you get to a point where your opponent has tanks or nukes and you don't have a natural, the game's over for Zerg either way, right? Theoretically yes if they are at your nat sieging your main it is probably over in ZvT. However, in PvP and TvT it could cause a problems. Terran fast tank pushes could be guardedly strong, also marauder rushes with a bunker below the mineral line. Things like that. Actually bunker rushes would become obscenely strong.
Thanks! Let's say only one geyser of the main would be siegable. Would you say this makes certain type of aggression automatically too strong? I have little experience with this since I don't play Terran and of course this is not something that can happen with ladder/tournament maps, so I have no reference.
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On March 24 2014 23:24 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2014 20:59 JacobShock wrote:
Just got completely owned by Zealot/Immortal allin, when I thought I pretty much had it handled. I had 74 lings 3 spines +3 queens and hydras coming, though the hydras could probably have been 30 seconds faster. Anyway he ripped right through my lings with about 23 zealots and 2 immortals. 1+ attack really destroys zero upgraded lings. It was a roflstomp.
Whats the best way to deal with this timing? When can you expect it to hit at the earliest? 8 mins? O.o why did you have 74 lings with no upgrades? If this is a 2-base attack, it should hit ~9:30. The only way to really deal with this type of allin is to get an emergency roach warren, make a lot of roaches, and do a lot of kiting. A faster version comes without chargelots and has time warp.
thanks for your input. =D I thought about the roaches, but I remember JD doing that against SOS (at blizzcon I think) and getting destroyed. Not that means it doesn't work like you said. It's just the reason why I didn't throw down a roach warren at the time. Even though I should probably have had an emergency one.
To answer your question, I went 3 hatch before pool, and had 3 bases saturated, I was thinking of doing mass hydras or mutas depending on his tech. I had 74 lings because I panicked when I saw the amount of zealots he had :b my lair was just done when he moved out, so I threw down the hydra den. But it was way too late. I should have gone with the roach warren I guess and skipped the lings.
btw, by no upgrades I don't mean speed. I had that, sorry.
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How much did the widow mine do vs. protoss before the latest and how much does it do now? I thought it was only +5 splash damage vs. shields but people are acting like it's a massive buff. The wording everywhere seems very confusing. I thought before it was 125 + 35 vs. shields and now it's 125 + 40 vs shields...
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On March 26 2014 08:14 SoleSteeler wrote:
How much did the widow mine do vs. protoss before the latest and how much does it do now? I thought it was only +5 splash damage vs. shields but people are acting like it's a massive buff. The wording everywhere seems very confusing. I thought before it was 125 + 35 vs. shields and now it's 125 + 40 vs shields...
It went from 125+35Shield on Initial target + 40/20/10 splash to 125+40Shield on initial target + 40+40shield/20+20shield/10+10shield splash.
The splash vs Protoss doubled.
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So it was 125 + 35. Now it's 125 + 40 and an addition 40 to shields. Damn, that is a huge buff. Thanks for the answer.
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When I watch pro Zergs I often see them use their overseer to contaminate a command center while they are attacking/destroying it. Is this just "styling/profiling" or does it serve a purpose like preventing repair or liftoff?
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Hi!
How do players drop units from multiple moving units simulteniasly?
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On March 25 2014 08:46 JacobShock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2014 23:24 SC2John wrote:On March 24 2014 20:59 JacobShock wrote:
Just got completely owned by Zealot/Immortal allin, when I thought I pretty much had it handled. I had 74 lings 3 spines +3 queens and hydras coming, though the hydras could probably have been 30 seconds faster. Anyway he ripped right through my lings with about 23 zealots and 2 immortals. 1+ attack really destroys zero upgraded lings. It was a roflstomp.
Whats the best way to deal with this timing? When can you expect it to hit at the earliest? 8 mins? O.o why did you have 74 lings with no upgrades? If this is a 2-base attack, it should hit ~9:30. The only way to really deal with this type of allin is to get an emergency roach warren, make a lot of roaches, and do a lot of kiting. A faster version comes without chargelots and has time warp. thanks for your input. =D I thought about the roaches, but I remember JD doing that against SOS (at blizzcon I think) and getting destroyed. Not that means it doesn't work like you said. It's just the reason why I didn't throw down a roach warren at the time. Even though I should probably have had an emergency one. To answer your question, I went 3 hatch before pool, and had 3 bases saturated, I was thinking of doing mass hydras or mutas depending on his tech. I had 74 lings because I panicked when I saw the amount of zealots he had :b my lair was just done when he moved out, so I threw down the hydra den. But it was way too late. I should have gone with the roach warren I guess and skipped the lings. btw, by no upgrades I don't mean speed. I had that, sorry.
Sup bro
I don't think I'm too qualified to answer your question, but I have around 300 matches this season with zerg and I have watched a lot more pro matches (I only watch Korean league to get an idea of the meta). Depending on what league you're in, going 3 hatch before pool is very dangerous (low league more dangerous (because of the unpredictability of builds) and higher leagues being kind of safer).
I usually (in ZvP) open with either a 14 pool/15 hatch to gain map control with speedlings, or a 15 hatch then 14 pool with a quick liar to get Hydra tech out (getting gas when my third queen pops out- first 100 gas going into liar).
Although builds are essential to holding timings, I think that it all comes down to scouting. If you had an idea of his robo timing, or saw his charge being researched, you may have gotten an edge on him that could have won the game, or at least held the push long enough to counter attack.
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On March 26 2014 23:59 SH-Fist wrote:
Hi!
How do players drop units from multiple moving units simulteniasly?
I just d-click on each medivac while they're moving just like you do when dropping from a single medivac, i think it's the one and only way (which btw can be a bit clumsy if doing a huge drop with medivacs clumped up).
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First of all thanks for your help regarding my mental block in playing ladder. I just never clicked unranked again and started fooling aroung every ~3rd game and it works quite well :D
Antoher question for you all: Lets say you are very dedicated to the game and play a lot, watch pro replays and train 1 build per match up really hard. How long would it normally take to get to master (mid or even high master)? Im first time diamond since a couple of weeks and for sure make too many mistakes. But I think its better to be in diamond knowing I make much mistakes then being diamond and when loosing to not know the reasons.
So how long does it take for a diamond player (rank ~15atm) to get to at least mid-masters? And how would you train for that? like how many hours per day are minimum? I know it depends on various things like talent or something but lets just say for a normal person
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What are the maps I should be vetoing as zerg? I've looked everywhere for a current list, and can't find one.
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Another question also:
Is there a build trainer with more than 2 mineral lines that I can practice and auto reset to 0 with? Note this means map keybinds are set back to 0 as well
I've found the build trainer with main and expansion...however I want to practice to 3/4 mineral lines
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EPT
