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Hello everyone
I am in the process of writing a reference guide for newer Protoss players. This is proving to take alot more time than I expected and as such I would like your opinions on it's usefulness or lack of such before I commit to making a complete document.
The file should be available via this dropbox link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vidvi6qjchbtpyg/ProtossReferenceGuide.pdf
The guide is currently unfinished, however I have completed the first few chapters and would like to know what you think, thanks.
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advise: re-host on a another hosting, dropbox will ban you after reaching some downloads number (not account but this file)
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I would go more into the basics rather than teaching new players I build. I have coached quite some newer players and most of them would quickly learn a build order while their basics aren't even decent yet.
What I mean with the basics are things such as:
- Using (camera) hotkeys
- Scouting and knowing what to look out for, and how to respond
- Efficiently spending minerals / gas
- Not getting supply blocked
But ofcourse you need a build order, so I would go with a standard build for every matchup.
Happy you are putting effort into teaching people about Starcraft, keep it up.
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So far it looks pretty good. In the cheese section, could you talk a little more about pylon and cannon placement for non mineral line cannon rushing? For proxy 2 gating, could you include some VODs? sOS vs Hero at the last IEM would be a good proof of concept in that regard.
Reason I ask is that I prefer team games where cheese is far less all in and is a viable strategy.
I skimmed the rest of the standard openings, all I can say is pictures. I like pretty pictures and VODs for how it's supposed to look at a high level. It helps break up the wall of text.
Thank you for taking the time to make this.
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Wow really nice guide i like it!!  I might send this to my protoss buddy
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On March 20 2014 01:03 Gianttt wrote:
I would go more into the basics rather than teaching new players I build. I have coached quite some newer players and most of them would quickly learn a build order while their basics aren't even decent yet.
What I mean with the basics are things such as:
- Using (camera) hotkeys
- Scouting and knowing what to look out for, and how to respond
- Efficiently spending minerals / gas
- Not getting supply blocked
But ofcourse you need a build order, so I would go with a standard build for every matchup.
Happy you are putting effort into teaching people about Starcraft, keep it up.
Eh, camera hotkeys are far from basic. I think it was either Sjow or Harstem that doesn't use them. Lol.
I think not getting supply blocked, spending money, and scouting should be the most important 3 things.
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Well, getting a forge upon scouting a 14 pool - as opposed to earlier pools - is bad unless you want to pylon block the zerg. Whether they get an expansion before the 3 min mark doesn't change your nexus timing because you will start your nexus before the zerg can actually start his hatch.
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On March 20 2014 01:44 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:03 Gianttt wrote:
I would go more into the basics rather than teaching new players I build. I have coached quite some newer players and most of them would quickly learn a build order while their basics aren't even decent yet.
What I mean with the basics are things such as:
- Using (camera) hotkeys
- Scouting and knowing what to look out for, and how to respond
- Efficiently spending minerals / gas
- Not getting supply blocked
But ofcourse you need a build order, so I would go with a standard build for every matchup.
Happy you are putting effort into teaching people about Starcraft, keep it up. Eh, camera hotkeys are far from basic. I think it was either Sjow or Harstem that doesn't use them. Lol. I think not getting supply blocked, spending money, and scouting should be the most important 3 things.
Yea, you can pretty much get to any rank with just regular minimap use and unit / building control groups. Hotkeying camera locations is kinda diamond+ level, imho. A camera selection is an action taken from a player (in the case of noobs we're talking about players with 40-80 APM). Every do-nothing task you give to a new player is a detriment until they master the real basics: spending money, not getting supply blocked, and gathering information. Not to mention, people can play for years and still not master the basics. Shit, I know people who don't even hotkey their units, for Christ's sake, and they've been playing since 2010. Camera hotkeys have no place in a race-specific guide for new players.
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Whether the guide should include camera hotkey tips is one thing. But camera hotkeys being diamond+? Wtf? Granted, I was a wc3 player before I got started in sc2, but camera hotkeys was one of the very first things that I learned.
It's not the kind of thing people should put off imo. Telling a new player not to use camera hotkeys is equivalent to telling them not to use any hotkeys at all because they're still getting supply blocked or something - it just doesn't make sense. Sure, they don't need to worry about stuff like warp prisms, but that's the kind of thing that won't make their macro more efficient. However, camera hotkeys do improve your macro and awareness.
I know people in diamond who can't keep track of their worker count properly (i.e. having 16 probes on minerals and whatnot) and don't even chrono boost probes very efficiently, and guess what, these people generally don't care much about camera hotkeys. It's a matter of efficiency. Clicking on the minimap everytime you want to check your worker count, chrono boost probes, take geysers, or even for the very act of building a pylon is just awful. People develop some pretty inefficient habits because of this attitude, and then later disregard the importance of camera hotkeys because they're unwilling to resist the urge of doing things inefficiently in order to develop a new habit. It baffles me everytime I see a player like this...
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The forge fast expand guarantees Protoss has a strong economical opening, however it is also a signal for the Zerg player to be greedy, as they know the only possible early pressure is a cannon rush. This led to the traditional forge expand against 3 hatch before pool meta game that was around for a long time and is still a common theme to this day.
What Zerg in their right mind would go three hatch before pool against a forge expand? That's something they will do vs a nexus first not an FFE.
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On March 20 2014 01:44 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2014 01:03 Gianttt wrote:
I would go more into the basics rather than teaching new players I build. I have coached quite some newer players and most of them would quickly learn a build order while their basics aren't even decent yet.
What I mean with the basics are things such as:
- Using (camera) hotkeys
- Scouting and knowing what to look out for, and how to respond
- Efficiently spending minerals / gas
- Not getting supply blocked
But ofcourse you need a build order, so I would go with a standard build for every matchup.
Happy you are putting effort into teaching people about Starcraft, keep it up. Eh, camera hotkeys are far from basic. I think it was either Sjow or Harstem that doesn't use them. Lol. I think not getting supply blocked, spending money, and scouting should be the most important 3 things.
Well I would say do you want to get the most out of Starcraft or not? Then I would defenitely advise camera hotkeys. It takes away several seconds of having to drag your mouse on the screen to go to either a proxy pylon or a base.
It might still be an opinion, but it improves my game a lot.
But I do agree it's a basic thing that you can do after you learned how to scout, spend minerals and such.
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I'm a gold league Protoss. I played zerg in WoL at Platinum and switched to toss on HOTS.
I thought your guide was fantastic. You answer a TON of the questions I've been asking recently. I think this guide will be extremely useful for players platinum and below. Please finish it lol.
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United States4883 Posts
On March 20 2014 03:12 vhapter wrote:
Whether the guide should include camera hotkey tips is one thing. But camera hotkeys being diamond+? Wtf? Granted, I was a wc3 player before I got started in sc2, but camera hotkeys was one of the very first things that I learned.
It's not the kind of thing people should put off imo. Telling a new player not to use camera hotkeys is equivalent to telling them not to use any hotkeys at all because they're still getting supply blocked or something - it just doesn't make sense. Sure, they don't need to worry about stuff like warp prisms, but that's the kind of thing that won't make their macro more efficient. However, camera hotkeys do improve your macro and awareness.
I know people in diamond who can't keep track of their worker count properly (i.e. having 16 probes on minerals and whatnot) and don't even chrono boost probes very efficiently, and guess what, these people generally don't care much about camera hotkeys. It's a matter of efficiency. Clicking on the minimap everytime you want to check your worker count, chrono boost probes, take geysers, or even for the very act of building a pylon is just awful. People develop some pretty inefficient habits because of this attitude, and then later disregard the importance of camera hotkeys because they're unwilling to resist the urge of doing things inefficiently in order to develop a new habit. It baffles me everytime I see a player like this...
Using camera hotkeys is obviously a fundamental mechanic of SC2 and it's very difficult to reach higher levels without it. I think literally everyone can benefit from it, no matter what level they're at, bronze through masters.
As far as the actual guide goes, I like it. It's very informative and based on learning builds, which is a fresh and unique perspective from the plethora of mechanics learning guides out there (The Staircase, From Bronze to Masters, etc.). I don't think you should add anything dealing with fundamentals such as APM, spending, or hotkeys; it's pretty much fine the way it is. Just finish it now .
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wow is it really necessary to make such an extensive guide?.. i learned my own way to master league just by playing... also you can't hold a korean 4gate with a robo ^^
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On March 23 2014 10:05 MagnuMizer wrote:
wow is it really necessary to make such an extensive guide?.. i learned my own way to master league just by playing... also you can't hold a korean 4gate with a robo ^^
1. If you're master league why are you coming into a thread about a guide for newer players?
2. I didn't think the guide was extensive. I thought it was aimed at the basics and covered the things that are actually important. If anything I thought he could add more detail/explanation.
3. You may have learned by playing, but I'm positive reading a guide while playing will be much more efficient for the majority of players to improve. It can only help so I don't know why you would discourage that.
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nice guide, really helpfull. want moar ! moar !11
thanks for the guide !!
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This is coming from a Gold player Protoss just turned Platinum and having his ass kicked around those two couple of days. This is a very useful guide for newer players, like maybe up to gold league. I would highly recommend it if someone asks about advice on how to play protoss. Also, I believe we should respect the author for the time and effort he has put in this.
I especially found the PvP section useful as I am playing from two months, like around 600 games so far and I didn't know how important 4 gating was. And some of the other builds seem nice.
I am struggling with PvT though and I am expecting the builds and explanations.
Camera hotkeys are also a completely new mechanic for me. I played BW ever since PGT and I reached B- in ICCUP in the glory days and I never used camera hotkeys then. I am trying to get used to two camera hotkeys for now and it's extremely hard to push myself to press F3 instead of 5,5 in order to get to my nexus. I do it early game but once the 6-7 minutes pass and it starts getting action packed I very rarely do it. But I see how useful it can be and I would advice people to incorporate it as soon as possible in their game.
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EPT
