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Mavvie
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Canada923 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-06 20:37:35
July 06 2012 20:35 GMT
#13241
On July 07 2012 04:39 MockHamill wrote:
What is the best Terran response to a Protoss forge FE (with cannons)?

Marauders, or fast medivacs(?)

Edit: Marauders, especially with stim, destroy cannons. I would imagine that you could easily bust down the wall with them. Keep in mind that their gateways come very late -- along with all their other tech -- and all their defence is static at their front door. Similar to 4gate warp prism in PvP, you could just drop their main, kill everything, and laugh ^^
Getting back into sc2 O_o
esorey
Profile Joined January 2012
United States8 Posts
July 07 2012 00:09 GMT
#13242
Could someone suggest some solid TvZ builds? I'm only high plat/diamond, so I'm afraid that I lack the micro to make full bio effective (correct me if I'm wrong). However, it also seems that my old 1rax FE to 10 min tank push is being crushed extremely easily, especially when the zerg scouts my FE and just takes a safe early third. Finally, although I have not tried it much lately, I hear that the reactor hellion expand has become much less viable with the change to queen range. I am open to any playstyle other than mech, but I feel that a somewhat aggressive build could help improve my multitasking and could shut down early third, drone-heavy play from zergs. I am somewhat lost in this matchup and any tips/suggestions are much appreciated.
jWavA
Profile Joined January 2011
United States73 Posts
July 07 2012 00:30 GMT
#13243
I've tried testing this but never figured it out properly as I don't play zerg, but was curious.

When one gets an upgrade such as pathogen glands, when does the upgrade take effect, when the unit starts or finishes?

Aka, if I build an infestor, and the pathogen glands upgrade finishes afterward(but BEFORE the infestor hatches), does it come out with extra energy or not?

Dingobloo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1903 Posts
July 07 2012 01:06 GMT
#13244
On July 07 2012 09:30 jWavA wrote:
I've tried testing this but never figured it out properly as I don't play zerg, but was curious.

When one gets an upgrade such as pathogen glands, when does the upgrade take effect, when the unit starts or finishes?

Aka, if I build an infestor, and the pathogen glands upgrade finishes afterward(but BEFORE the infestor hatches), does it come out with extra energy or not?



My intuition is that larva are no different from any production building and as long as you have the upgrade by the time they hatch (ie the infestor comes out of the egg) they will get pathogen glands and when you start them is irrelevant. But just to be sure I checked in a unit tester and sure enough that's what happened.

Keep in mind that only applies to the energy upgrades not any other upgrade really, most other upgrades just apply retroactively.
Papa Smurf 84
Profile Joined July 2012
United States3 Posts
July 07 2012 01:54 GMT
#13245
I am really frustrated that I'm not improving as much as I'd like.

I think I'm being a bit unrealistic though. I just got the game, and have ~50 league wins, 20 of those being from 1v1.

I've gotten to top 5 in bronze pretty quickly, but I can't seem to go up any higher. I keep losing to silver league players, and I think the only way I'll get better is practice. But how many games will it take for me to get into silver league?
i like trains
Mavvie
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Canada923 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-07 02:18:51
July 07 2012 02:15 GMT
#13246
On July 07 2012 10:54 Papa Smurf 84 wrote:
I am really frustrated that I'm not improving as much as I'd like.

I think I'm being a bit unrealistic though. I just got the game, and have ~50 league wins, 20 of those being from 1v1.

I've gotten to top 5 in bronze pretty quickly, but I can't seem to go up any higher. I keep losing to silver league players, and I think the only way I'll get better is practice. But how many games will it take for me to get into silver league?

There's no definitive answer to how many games it will take to jump leagues. I was stuck in bronze for many months, but then I read guides, focused on perfecting my play, and within a matter of weeks I've jumped from bronze to top plat, beating diamond players.

My recommendation is to look at replays (or post them here!) and find every single mistake you make. If you have more than 0 energy on your queens after injecting, you're doing it wrong. If you took 3 bases despite scouting a 1-1-1 all-in, that's also a fatal mistake. Look at how you could improve decision-making, scouting, macro, and mechanics! If you ever lost a few lings because of a bad rally point, focus on setting hatch rally points and even adding morphing eggs into your control groups.

I think that at the low levels, the most important things to improving is achieving a good balance between playing and theorycrafting. If you're playing TvP, and Protoss doesn't expand, only takes 1 gas, and is saving up chrono (for WG), you should build a bunker to hold the imminent 4gate! These are all just examples. You should read multiple comprehensive guides on all applicable matchups, then play, say, 5 games on ladder. Watch every replay, and take what you did and compare it to what you should have done (according to the guide[s]).

I don't know what race you are, but a good way of improving mechanics is PERFECTING a build! As annoying as it will be to all your opponents on ladder, practice a 4gate until you get it so perfect + smooth that it's completely optimized. I believe a good build for terran is the 1-1-1, and as zerg...hell we don't use build orders :D in all honesty, practice hitting 70-80 supply at 8 minutes ZvP, benchmarks ftw!

Edit: That awkward moment when jWavA's answer is infinitely better than mine! He's right: ladder ranking literally means nothing. Watch husky and day[9] and major tournaments and love the sport and community! ^^
Getting back into sc2 O_o
jWavA
Profile Joined January 2011
United States73 Posts
July 07 2012 02:16 GMT
#13247
On July 07 2012 10:54 Papa Smurf 84 wrote:
I am really frustrated that I'm not improving as much as I'd like.

I think I'm being a bit unrealistic though. I just got the game, and have ~50 league wins, 20 of those being from 1v1.

I've gotten to top 5 in bronze pretty quickly, but I can't seem to go up any higher. I keep losing to silver league players, and I think the only way I'll get better is practice. But how many games will it take for me to get into silver league?


This ended up being kind of a long answer, but still pretty simple:

First I want to tell you to be a bit more patient. 20 wins is not enough to get you promoted. Starcraft is not like a platformer or RPG where you move on when you've played enough "levels". You will be promoted when you are consistently defeating silver league players, and not a moment before that. There's always been a social stigma at least among me and my friends that the bronze-gold part of the ladder takes no skill, that most people get into gold immediately and anyone who doesnt is stupid. This is incredibly far from the truth. I was really angry when I won 3 games and lost 2 and got placed in bronze 2.5 years ago. Then I realized, as Day9 puts it, the ladder is a measure of progress and not a measure of skill. Ignore your league ranking: its not a merit badge or a shiny car, or lack thereof. Celebrate when you get promoted, but remember that your rank is a tool, not a caste.

Now on the subject of improving, for now(even though you've probably already heard this), just play as many games as you feel like playing, and try to remember to always build probes and pylons(or whatever race you play). Watch Day9's videos(especially Newbie Tuesdays) and try to play with some friends you know more often, and learn from each other. If you start to think, live and breath starcraft and immerse yourself in the joy that is esports, you'll soon improve just through osmosis, and you'll have a lot of fun while you're at it.
ShiiQ
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany31 Posts
July 07 2012 02:23 GMT
#13248
What is the TvZ "Standart" Build for Terran? I wasn't playing for 1 Season so i missed the patch. So what is the current standart play with Terran. Example: TvP was 1 Rax Fe!
Mavvie
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Canada923 Posts
July 07 2012 03:20 GMT
#13249
On July 07 2012 11:23 ShiiQ wrote:
What is the TvZ "Standart" Build for Terran? I wasn't playing for 1 Season so i missed the patch. So what is the current standart play with Terran. Example: TvP was 1 Rax Fe!

As a zerg player, there is no "standard" built for TvZ. The "new thing" that's getting popular is 1rax FE into bio, some stim timings are pretty good, but the strength of bio lies in having 15 medivacs to heal through fungals, banelings, while dropping every single base. I often run into hellions, banshees, marine/tank, MMM, and other things that usually don't work.

Typically, you take a fast third, defend all-ins, and bring up production to constantly be aggressive. As Day[9] said, you attack wherever the broodlord/infestors aren't! :D Since I am no terran player (I don't even know how many rax you should have lol), here's a link to a good Bio TvZ guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344554
According to Belial, the general flow of ZvT (and vice versa):
+ Show Spoiler +
The flow of ZvT is similar to the flow of ZvP.
- Hatch First
- Zerg rules out 1 base all-in
- Zerg takes third as soon as he can (against a T who expanded), but may have to go 2 base lair macro hatch (eg hellions, banshees)
- Zerg defends third, then drones up
- Terran takes third while Zerg has map control & takes 4th
- Terran pushes while Zerg tries to gain an army advantage before he’s at Zerg’s front door (cutting off reinforcements, delaying for higher tech, etc).
- Terran turtles against Hive Tech and tries to win by cost efficient


If you see ultras, make marauders out of like 20rax, if you see corruptors, broodlords, OR hive tech + spire, make vikings out of at least 2 reactored starports.

Mech is also very strong, but I've never read any guides on it.
Getting back into sc2 O_o
Papa Smurf 84
Profile Joined July 2012
United States3 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-07 03:36:35
July 07 2012 03:35 GMT
#13250
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 07 2012 11:15 Mavvie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2012 10:54 Papa Smurf 84 wrote:
I am really frustrated that I'm not improving as much as I'd like.

I think I'm being a bit unrealistic though. I just got the game, and have ~50 league wins, 20 of those being from 1v1.

I've gotten to top 5 in bronze pretty quickly, but I can't seem to go up any higher. I keep losing to silver league players, and I think the only way I'll get better is practice. But how many games will it take for me to get into silver league?

There's no definitive answer to how many games it will take to jump leagues. I was stuck in bronze for many months, but then I read guides, focused on perfecting my play, and within a matter of weeks I've jumped from bronze to top plat, beating diamond players.

My recommendation is to look at replays (or post them here!) and find every single mistake you make. If you have more than 0 energy on your queens after injecting, you're doing it wrong. If you took 3 bases despite scouting a 1-1-1 all-in, that's also a fatal mistake. Look at how you could improve decision-making, scouting, macro, and mechanics! If you ever lost a few lings because of a bad rally point, focus on setting hatch rally points and even adding morphing eggs into your control groups.

I think that at the low levels, the most important things to improving is achieving a good balance between playing and theorycrafting. If you're playing TvP, and Protoss doesn't expand, only takes 1 gas, and is saving up chrono (for WG), you should build a bunker to hold the imminent 4gate! These are all just examples. You should read multiple comprehensive guides on all applicable matchups, then play, say, 5 games on ladder. Watch every replay, and take what you did and compare it to what you should have done (according to the guide[s]).

I don't know what race you are, but a good way of improving mechanics is PERFECTING a build! As annoying as it will be to all your opponents on ladder, practice a 4gate until you get it so perfect + smooth that it's completely optimized. I believe a good build for terran is the 1-1-1, and as zerg...hell we don't use build orders :D in all honesty, practice hitting 70-80 supply at 8 minutes ZvP, benchmarks ftw!

Edit: That awkward moment when jWavA's answer is infinitely better than mine! He's right: ladder ranking literally means nothing. Watch husky and day[9] and major tournaments and love the sport and community! ^^


On July 07 2012 11:16 jWavA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2012 10:54 Papa Smurf 84 wrote:
I am really frustrated that I'm not improving as much as I'd like.

I think I'm being a bit unrealistic though. I just got the game, and have ~50 league wins, 20 of those being from 1v1.

I've gotten to top 5 in bronze pretty quickly, but I can't seem to go up any higher. I keep losing to silver league players, and I think the only way I'll get better is practice. But how many games will it take for me to get into silver league?


This ended up being kind of a long answer, but still pretty simple:

First I want to tell you to be a bit more patient. 20 wins is not enough to get you promoted. Starcraft is not like a platformer or RPG where you move on when you've played enough "levels". You will be promoted when you are consistently defeating silver league players, and not a moment before that. There's always been a social stigma at least among me and my friends that the bronze-gold part of the ladder takes no skill, that most people get into gold immediately and anyone who doesnt is stupid. This is incredibly far from the truth. I was really angry when I won 3 games and lost 2 and got placed in bronze 2.5 years ago. Then I realized, as Day9 puts it, the ladder is a measure of progress and not a measure of skill. Ignore your league ranking: its not a merit badge or a shiny car, or lack thereof. Celebrate when you get promoted, but remember that your rank is a tool, not a caste.

Now on the subject of improving, for now(even though you've probably already heard this), just play as many games as you feel like playing, and try to remember to always build probes and pylons(or whatever race you play). Watch Day9's videos(especially Newbie Tuesdays) and try to play with some friends you know more often, and learn from each other. If you start to think, live and breath starcraft and immerse yourself in the joy that is esports, you'll soon improve just through osmosis, and you'll have a lot of fun while you're at it.


Thank you very much for the detailed responses!!
i like trains
Drewcy
Profile Joined July 2012
Canada10 Posts
July 07 2012 20:40 GMT
#13251
I'm torn between using Broodlords or Ultralisks in ZvT, which situations/maps are best for either option?
Monsyphon
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada190 Posts
July 07 2012 23:48 GMT
#13252
On July 08 2012 05:40 Drewcy wrote:
I'm torn between using Broodlords or Ultralisks in ZvT, which situations/maps are best for either option?


The closer your bases are, the easier broodlord armies can defend. Therefore, ultras can work better on larger maps because they are more moblie.
There's also stylistic choices, do you like to run around the map and assault whatever you can? Ultras would fit you more.
Or would you rather sit back and make sure all your bases are defended, while having a powerful army crushing bases left and right? BL would be better suited for this
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5357 Posts
July 08 2012 00:14 GMT
#13253
How should I open TvZ now...
I used to reactor hellions, then 1rax FE, but neither can punish something like the 6queen build or a 3 hatch before pool style. A lot of pros are using 2rax again, is this viable?
¯\_(シ)_/¯
serialcheater
Profile Joined July 2012
12 Posts
July 08 2012 04:38 GMT
#13254
I guess how can someone like me contribute to the community? I'm too of a low level atm and yeah I want to post but I don't know what I should.... Anyone have ideas. BTW I play terran.
howLiN
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Portugal1676 Posts
July 08 2012 11:47 GMT
#13255
What do you guys think is the quickest or most efficient way of taking one unit out of a hotkey group?
Iyerbeth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
England2410 Posts
July 08 2012 13:13 GMT
#13256
On July 08 2012 20:47 howLiN wrote:
What do you guys think is the quickest or most efficient way of taking one unit out of a hotkey group?


Hold shift and click on the unit, then rebind the group.
♥ Liquid`Sheth ♥ Liquid`TLO ♥
envisioN .
Profile Joined February 2011
United States552 Posts
July 08 2012 15:00 GMT
#13257
On July 08 2012 09:14 Whatson wrote:
How should I open TvZ now...
I used to reactor hellions, then 1rax FE, but neither can punish something like the 6queen build or a 3 hatch before pool style. A lot of pros are using 2rax again, is this viable?

2 Rax is viable to do damage before the queens come out, then you can transition into an expansion and bio heavy play, or you can open reactor hellions, build the expansion CC, but keep making hellions until you have 14+ then run by the queens to do massive damage. If you do this however, you must only show 4 hellions until you are ready to push to keep the zerg from reacting with roaches.
"Good works do not make a good man, but a good man does good works" -Martin Luther ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
meepkeN
Profile Joined February 2012
United States52 Posts
July 09 2012 00:36 GMT
#13258
If you're going to drop (or for me, warp prism harass), what would be the first thing to go for? econ? tech/upgrades?
KhAmun
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1005 Posts
July 09 2012 01:03 GMT
#13259
On July 08 2012 09:14 Whatson wrote:
How should I open TvZ now...
I used to reactor hellions, then 1rax FE, but neither can punish something like the 6queen build or a 3 hatch before pool style. A lot of pros are using 2rax again, is this viable?


12/14 rax is quite good vs these queen builds, because Z wants to cut lings in order to have the drone count to continue to produce queens while using all their larva. By sending early marines, Z has to make lings, therefor lacking the drone count to continually produce queens while using larva. So Z ends up with less queens on the field early, or a much lower drone count.
This of course depends on how it's handled on both sides, but that's the logistics.
DarKcS
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia1237 Posts
July 09 2012 01:22 GMT
#13260
Anyone got a replay of 3 base roach holding 4 gate pressure properly? (Pref in to 2 base immortal) Ty :D
Die tomorrow - Live today
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