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VoirDire
Profile Joined February 2009
Sweden1923 Posts
April 19 2012 06:59 GMT
#12181
On April 19 2012 09:33 Flibidi wrote:
Hi, I have a question about ZvP: how do you deal with a protoss maxing out with voidray/stalkers/collosi on 2 bases? (after a FFE)(For exemple, I opened mass roach on 3 bases stephano style,I had a lot of mineral, 5 bases and some corrupters, but his army crushed mine and i couldn't defend with my repop)
I hope you will be able to help me! Thanks

Try to trade your roach army as cost effectively you can. Get 10-20 spinecrawlers while teching to brood lord/infestor.
leperphilliac
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States399 Posts
April 19 2012 07:47 GMT
#12182
On April 19 2012 14:31 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 14:25 Forbidden17 wrote:
Well ok let's see what the general consensus is then.

Poll: In your opinion, is 8gate off 2base all-in?

Yes, if you don't win with it you're as good as dead (7)
 
58%

No, it is possible to transition even if it fails (5)
 
42%

12 total votes

Your vote: In your opinion, is 8gate off 2base all-in?

(Vote): Yes, if you don't win with it you're as good as dead
(Vote): No, it is possible to transition even if it fails



The thing is, it's not binary. It's possible to do damage without outright winning, then transition out.


Then your all-in succeeded right? A 4 pool can result in even damage to both sides leaving exactly 4 drones/scvs/probes on both sides yet I don't think anybody's gonna argue a 4 pool isn't an all-in. As for the 8 gate, you simply cannot support probe production along with warping in from 8 gateways, especially because chances are you're going to warp in mostly stalkers (retaining the sentries and warping in zealots to buffer), and stalkers are freakin' 125/50 which is damn expensive.
awaller
Profile Joined February 2012
United States23 Posts
April 19 2012 15:30 GMT
#12183
What is considered to be one base play? Your starting base plus your natural or just your starting CC.
Iyerbeth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
England2410 Posts
April 19 2012 15:44 GMT
#12184
On April 20 2012 00:30 awaller wrote:
What is considered to be one base play? Your starting base plus your natural or just your starting CC.


One base play is any build that involves you only mining from one base worth of minerals or gas for the duration of that specific play. 6 pool and 4 gate all in are examples of one base play, where you might win or lose off one base, but only after that is resolved will you expand. It can also include being beaten tdown to one base, or simply moving an orbital from one base to another as they run out of minerals.
♥ Liquid`Sheth ♥ Liquid`TLO ♥
Venomsflame
Profile Joined February 2011
United States613 Posts
April 19 2012 16:06 GMT
#12185
On April 19 2012 16:47 leperphilliac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 14:31 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
On April 19 2012 14:25 Forbidden17 wrote:
Well ok let's see what the general consensus is then.

Poll: In your opinion, is 8gate off 2base all-in?

Yes, if you don't win with it you're as good as dead (7)
 
58%

No, it is possible to transition even if it fails (5)
 
42%

12 total votes

Your vote: In your opinion, is 8gate off 2base all-in?

(Vote): Yes, if you don't win with it you're as good as dead
(Vote): No, it is possible to transition even if it fails



The thing is, it's not binary. It's possible to do damage without outright winning, then transition out.


Then your all-in succeeded right? A 4 pool can result in even damage to both sides leaving exactly 4 drones/scvs/probes on both sides yet I don't think anybody's gonna argue a 4 pool isn't an all-in. As for the 8 gate, you simply cannot support probe production along with warping in from 8 gateways, especially because chances are you're going to warp in mostly stalkers (retaining the sentries and warping in zealots to buffer), and stalkers are freakin' 125/50 which is damn expensive.


Aren't there different versions of 8 gates? Can't be a linear question with many different variants. I'm sure some are allin while others could have a followup(provided you don't overcommit).
awaller
Profile Joined February 2012
United States23 Posts
April 19 2012 16:23 GMT
#12186
Thanks for reply. I am practicing macro, is it more difficult to macro two CC's vs one ?
Should I get a handle on one before I attempt a second ? I see benchmarks that require you to produce 50 scv's in ten
minutes, is this off two cc's or one ? Mosts replays I see require two CC's to reach this goal.
Hero1
Profile Joined December 2010
135 Posts
April 19 2012 21:44 GMT
#12187
Which maps would you veto as double terran in 2v2?
BobTheSCV
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden37 Posts
April 19 2012 22:34 GMT
#12188
I play Terran, and against Protoss, I usually do a 1 rax FE into a 3 rax (2 tech, 1 reactor) bio/medivac/+1 push at 10 minutes. But lately I've been encountering Protoss players that tech super-greedily and get a colossus by that point, making it almost impossible to put any sort of pressure for a very long time.

I've had difficulties adapting to this, because the build takes a long time to get any sort of units out. What's a good way to adapt this type of build to deal with this?
SCV ready!
Heweree
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom497 Posts
April 20 2012 05:12 GMT
#12189
Simple question, among pros what's the average scrolling speed? Snute just told me he uses 100% which I find very hard to play with. Are they all using 100%?
jjhchsc2
Profile Joined December 2010
Korea (South)2393 Posts
April 20 2012 07:27 GMT
#12190
Whats with all these barcode players? with names like lllIIIIIllll/etc
i see so many streamers bump into them and there are a few on GM as well.
Lee Ssang/ Lee Shin/ Kim Jung Woo/ Kim Min Chul/Jun Tae Yang/Park Soo Ho/Lee Jung Hoon/Choi Sung Hoon/ Moon Sung Won/Park Ji Soo/ Lee Ho Joon/ Jang Min Chul/ Kim Seung Chul/SaSe/IdrA/Ret Fighting! BW4Life
Forbidden17
Profile Joined December 2011
666 Posts
April 20 2012 08:01 GMT
#12191
On April 20 2012 16:27 jjhchsc2 wrote:
Whats with all these barcode players? with names like lllIIIIIllll/etc
i see so many streamers bump into them and there are a few on GM as well.

Usually an account shared by a pro team. It's named with capital i's and lower cased L's so it is very difficult to track and steal replays of games played on this account.
phiinix
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1169 Posts
April 20 2012 09:01 GMT
#12192
On April 20 2012 07:34 BobTheSCV wrote:
I play Terran, and against Protoss, I usually do a 1 rax FE into a 3 rax (2 tech, 1 reactor) bio/medivac/+1 push at 10 minutes. But lately I've been encountering Protoss players that tech super-greedily and get a colossus by that point, making it almost impossible to put any sort of pressure for a very long time.

I've had difficulties adapting to this, because the build takes a long time to get any sort of units out. What's a good way to adapt this type of build to deal with this?


Well if you've had your share of fights, 1-2 colossus isn't really a problem to deal with in the early midgame, esp if you have 2-4 medivacs. Splitting units helps a lot, so if you micro well you can bust through with your timing a-okay. If you're worried about ff preventing your pressure, you have 2 options generally speaking
1. two base pressure
2. take a third

option 1 is to just makes a bunch of vikings and go kill him. You should know that colo are coming anyway, so it's more about time than resources available. by the time you normally make a 10 min push you probably don't have any vikings. In preparation you can get the second starport at like 9:30-10:30 if colo are popping out at the time, switch it onto a factory or rax reactor, and just go try to kill him/deny third while pushing in

option 2 is to expand and macro up with +2 rax +starport. This works better if you're in the situation i described above: if you can kill his army, but only lose because of ff and defensive play, go ahead and take a third, because he can't punish you if you have mobility+spread in the middle of the map.
knightwulf
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada174 Posts
April 20 2012 13:24 GMT
#12193

Simple question but i can not find any answers to it. Where do you put your keyboard hand? like starting position, where are your fingers normally? I keep them at home row and i have recently noticed that i am unable to reach F1 keys... any advice ?

Knightwulf

(accidentally posted this in dota 2 forums It wasn't until the 5th person saying they don't use F keys that i got suspicious.)
VoirDire
Profile Joined February 2009
Sweden1923 Posts
April 20 2012 13:30 GMT
#12194
On April 20 2012 06:44 Hero1 wrote:
Which maps would you veto as double terran in 2v2?

I would veto something like:

Lunar colony V (Open and hard to hold expansions)
Tyrador Keep (Open, large and hard to take a 3rd)
Scorched Haven (Open, large and hard to take a 3rd)
VoirDire
Profile Joined February 2009
Sweden1923 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-20 13:36:49
April 20 2012 13:34 GMT
#12195
On April 20 2012 22:24 knightwulf wrote:

Simple question but i can not find any answers to it. Where do you put your keyboard hand? like starting position, where are your fingers normally? I keep them at home row and i have recently noticed that i am unable to reach F1 keys... any advice ?

Knightwulf

(accidentally posted this in dota 2 forums It wasn't until the 5th person saying they don't use F keys that i got suspicious.)

I use homerow shifted 1 place to the right (aka ASD). A is attack, S is select larvae and D is spawn drones. That's all I need

EDIT: Clarification: ring finger on A, index finger on D.
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2598 Posts
April 20 2012 14:04 GMT
#12196
On April 20 2012 22:24 knightwulf wrote:

Simple question but i can not find any answers to it. Where do you put your keyboard hand? like starting position, where are your fingers normally? I keep them at home row and i have recently noticed that i am unable to reach F1 keys... any advice ?

Knightwulf

(accidentally posted this in dota 2 forums It wasn't until the 5th person saying they don't use F keys that i got suspicious.)

I just pretended to do my opening and discovered that I do this (I play with grid layout):

Pinky on shift, ring finger on q, middle finger between w and e, pointer finger on f, thumb on space (which is a location hotkey for me).

I have my location hotkeys on F1-F4 and just pick my hand up to reach them. I spam F1F2F3<Space>55qF1F2F3<Space>55q (so cycling through my three base positions, my ramp on Space, returning to my Nexus and building a Probe) during the beginning of every game, so the motion to move to the F-keys and back into my basic position is very natural for me.
The frumious Bandersnatch
leperphilliac
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States399 Posts
April 20 2012 19:15 GMT
#12197
On April 20 2012 01:06 Venomsflame wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2012 16:47 leperphilliac wrote:
On April 19 2012 14:31 Boiler Bandsman wrote:
On April 19 2012 14:25 Forbidden17 wrote:
Well ok let's see what the general consensus is then.

Poll: In your opinion, is 8gate off 2base all-in?

Yes, if you don't win with it you're as good as dead (7)
 
58%

No, it is possible to transition even if it fails (5)
 
42%

12 total votes

Your vote: In your opinion, is 8gate off 2base all-in?

(Vote): Yes, if you don't win with it you're as good as dead
(Vote): No, it is possible to transition even if it fails



The thing is, it's not binary. It's possible to do damage without outright winning, then transition out.


Then your all-in succeeded right? A 4 pool can result in even damage to both sides leaving exactly 4 drones/scvs/probes on both sides yet I don't think anybody's gonna argue a 4 pool isn't an all-in. As for the 8 gate, you simply cannot support probe production along with warping in from 8 gateways, especially because chances are you're going to warp in mostly stalkers (retaining the sentries and warping in zealots to buffer), and stalkers are freakin' 125/50 which is damn expensive.


Aren't there different versions of 8 gates? Can't be a linear question with many different variants. I'm sure some are allin while others could have a followup(provided you don't overcommit).



I'm assuming that he means the FFE into cut probes at ~50 to chrono all the warpgates that hits at ~10 minutes. Maybe 9, forgot. Zergs have gotten really good at just making roaches at the 9:00 minute mark though so I found this to be highly ineffective even at my lowly mid-diamond level play.
leperphilliac
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States399 Posts
April 20 2012 19:19 GMT
#12198
On April 20 2012 07:34 BobTheSCV wrote:
I play Terran, and against Protoss, I usually do a 1 rax FE into a 3 rax (2 tech, 1 reactor) bio/medivac/+1 push at 10 minutes. But lately I've been encountering Protoss players that tech super-greedily and get a colossus by that point, making it almost impossible to put any sort of pressure for a very long time.

I've had difficulties adapting to this, because the build takes a long time to get any sort of units out. What's a good way to adapt this type of build to deal with this?


If they have a colossus you can't attack up their natural ramp ever unless you have vikings to take down the colossus, your units will just get laser-beamed to death. I'd just try to snipe the third by drops if it exists and expand yourself instead, and camp somewhere that you can get yourself a good concave. One or even two colossus aren't TOO crazy for bio if you have a nice concave. Also, viking production (of course).
archonOOid
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1983 Posts
April 20 2012 19:45 GMT
#12199
Is mass muta play slightly imbalanced on metropolis since there is 2 island expansions? I have had a great win rate with that strategy on this particular map and my protoss opponents have cried imbalanced due to the island expansions. Because as the base trade begins I will have 1-2 bases safe against marching protoss deathball.
I'm Quotable (IQ)
Mvrio
Profile Joined July 2011
689 Posts
April 20 2012 19:48 GMT
#12200
why haven't more people faked overlord drops to push back other armies, like Protoss to buy them some time or anything? just get speed and a few ovys and when you engage pretend to drop
On October 03 2011 Jinsho wrote: Everyone is just a speck of fly dirt on the wall compared to Greg playing at his best :D
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