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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2594 Posts
On April 18 2012 15:22 Mvrio wrote: do all xel'naga towers give the same vision? does it change depending on the map? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Xel'Naga_Tower It's always radius 22. | ||
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SnowBound
United States6 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On April 19 2012 01:15 SnowBound wrote: As Z, how do I keep a protoss opponent from massing void rays, am I supposed to deny expos, or is there another key? It depends a bit on the specifics of the situation. Suppose he is going FFE and you're jumping to 3 bases. If he is going heavily with void rays on 2 bases with minimal gateway support (more than 1 stargate, sticks to stargate tech after his timing push) and doesn't kill your third (which you can defend pretty well with roach ling hydra), you can usually deny his 3rd for a long time with just roach ling (run in, force a cancel on everything, run out). The thing is, to do this, you have to be pretty quick with your scouting. If you give him enough time to lay down cannons, its gonna be tough to take them down. If he does get on 3 bases (or later into the game), just take as many bases as you need and make infestors, hydras, corruptors and roach/ling (depending on how much gateway support he has). Drop the hydras if he has collosus (but then again, if he's sticking to stargate he won't have collosus or anything else that requires a lot of gas). | ||
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Omelet
Canada3 Posts
In PvZ, is a one base 1gate, 2 Stargate +1 Void Ray attack considered "cheese" I use this build in gold league and usually hit with about 5-6 Void Rays at the 10 minute mark. I'm not (intentionally) cutting probe production and I expand behind the attack. I usually have a small force of zealots and a wall-off to try and defend against any ling counter-attacks. It is basically an all-in in the sense that if it doesn't do significant damage than you will likely be overrun by a superior army supply. | ||
Forbidden17
666 Posts
On April 19 2012 04:11 Omelet wrote: Question In PvZ, is a one base 1gate, 2 Stargate +1 Void Ray attack considered "cheese" I use this build in gold league and usually hit with about 5-6 Void Rays at the 10 minute mark. I'm not (intentionally) cutting probe production and I expand behind the attack. I usually have a small force of zealots and a wall-off to try and defend against any ling counter-attacks. It is basically an all-in in the sense that if it doesn't do significant damage than you will likely be overrun by a superior army supply. I think 99% of people would say that is cheese. It is obviously all-in as you are on one base for 10mins O___o You can try opening with a forge FE and transition into double stargate. It's still pretty all-in and most people would still consider it cheese, but it's far more economical than your 1base variant. | ||
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coriamon
244 Posts
On April 19 2012 04:18 Forbidden17 wrote: I think 99% of people would say that is cheese. It is obviously all-in as you are on one base for 10mins O___o You can try opening with a forge FE and transition into double stargate. It's still pretty all-in and most people would still consider it cheese, but it's far more economical than your 1base variant. I disagree; I wouldn't call it allin. It is a high pressure build; however if it were any later it would definetely be allin. You need to do damage with this build. FE, I had a build (back in the day) that was a timing vs an early expanding T. I would get 3 immortals, plus one defence and attack with 3 gate (zealot) robo against the opponent. I did cut workers, but it is simply because the attack comes late enough (around 9:00-10:00) that the extra workers wouldn't help me for a long time. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On April 19 2012 04:31 coriamon wrote: I disagree; I wouldn't call it allin. It is a high pressure build; however if it were any later it would definetely be allin. You need to do damage with this build. FE, I had a build (back in the day) that was a timing vs an early expanding T. I would get 3 immortals, plus one defence and attack with 3 gate (zealot) robo against the opponent. I did cut workers, but it is simply because the attack comes late enough (around 9:00-10:00) that the extra workers wouldn't help me for a long time. I beg to differ. The term All-in is probably derived from poker. It signifies putting all of your remaining chips on the table, thus either cashing in a huge win, or dropping out of the game. In Starcraft terms, this means committing to a single attack which can yield a huge gain, but if it fails you are either 1) very far behind or 2) out of the game. Usually, All-ins are performed by the player who is inferior in Economy. All-ins can arise from different game situations: They can be planned, for example if a Zerg tries to break a Protoss Wall-in while sacrificing Economy, They can be forced, i.e. a desperate attempt to win the game if a drop has decimated your workers at the mineral line. Because the attack needs to do big damage, its all in. | ||
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donjuancho
United States12 Posts
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LayZRR
Germany449 Posts
someone pls kill me. | ||
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Forbidden17
666 Posts
On April 19 2012 07:54 LayZRR wrote: simple question: why am i the fucking worst player in the world? someone pls kill me. You aren't! You just know that there is room for improvement which is good. If you don't know why you are losing you came to the right place, but first you'll need to elaborate on what you're having trouble with  | ||
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Flibidi
1 Post
I hope you will be able to help me! Thanks | ||
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Schaudenfraud
United States38 Posts
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Whatson
United States5357 Posts
On April 19 2012 09:57 Schaudenfraud wrote: are there any tools in which i can view myself playing sc2 games eg where i'm clicking, what i'm upgrading, etc. is fraps the only way? Replays? Or FirstPersonVODs. | ||
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coriamon
244 Posts
On April 19 2012 05:07 GinDo wrote: I beg to differ. The term All-in is probably derived from poker. It signifies putting all of your remaining chips on the table, thus either cashing in a huge win, or dropping out of the game. In Starcraft terms, this means committing to a single attack which can yield a huge gain, but if it fails you are either 1) very far behind or 2) out of the game. Usually, All-ins are performed by the player who is inferior in Economy. All-ins can arise from different game situations: They can be planned, for example if a Zerg tries to break a Protoss Wall-in while sacrificing Economy, They can be forced, i.e. a desperate attempt to win the game if a drop has decimated your workers at the mineral line. Because the attack needs to do big damage, its all in. Yet when even pressure builds are called "allin" because they need to do damage, people are missusing the word Allin. Allin assumes that you CANNOT get back; a high pressure build can always get back if you do SOME damage. You may not win outright, but if you trade armies efficiently, you can make back what you lost from mining time. If a 5 voidray attack deals enough damage, why would it be allin at all? Simply pull back and expand into a lead. We are at a point in our metagame where we no longer accept "pressure builds" as legitamate play. If you do not expand by the 8:00 minute mark, you are completely allin. This is untrue. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On April 19 2012 10:42 coriamon wrote: Yet when even pressure builds are called "allin" because they need to do damage, people are missusing the word Allin. Allin assumes that you CANNOT get back; a high pressure build can always get back if you do SOME damage. You may not win outright, but if you trade armies efficiently, you can make back what you lost from mining time. If a 5 voidray attack deals enough damage, why would it be allin at all? Simply pull back and expand into a lead. We are at a point in our metagame where we no longer accept "pressure builds" as legitamate play. If you do not expand by the 8:00 minute mark, you are completely allin. This is untrue. You can also transition from a 6 pool into a normal game if you kill enough probes to even things up but not enough to kill him. That doesn't mean it's not all-in. It's just that it's very unlikely that it will do right enough damage to even things up (instead of straight up winning or losing you the game). The push being discussed is the same. It's very likely it straight up win or lose you the game. Doing just a bit of damage to allow transition, not any more or any less, is very unlikely. | ||
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coriamon
244 Posts
On April 19 2012 11:59 Sbrubbles wrote: You can also transition from a 6 pool into a normal game if you kill enough probes to even things up but not enough to kill him. That doesn't mean it's not all-in. It's just that it's very unlikely that it will do right enough damage to even things up (instead of straight up winning or losing you the game). The push being discussed is the same. It's very likely it straight up win or lose you the game. Doing just a bit of damage to allow transition, not any more or any less, is very unlikely. I feel that any serious pressure build (IE. you may not be pulling probes, but you are delaying your expo in favor of more troops) must always have some risk to it to reap any reward. Consider the 8 gate push from Protoss off of two bases. It delays the third significantly if you attack with it. However, it is not considered a "complete" allin because you still have two bases. Now consider the 4 gate push. It delays your expo significantly if you attack with it. However it is considered allin because you only have one base. This logic is stupid. Both can win/lose you the game, but the more likely outcome is for the game to continue with one player at an advantage. A push off of one base is similar to a push off of two bases in so many ways yet we define them completely differently because one hits earlier. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. | ||
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Broesl
Austria75 Posts
On April 19 2012 13:39 coriamon wrote: I feel that any serious pressure build (IE. you may not be pulling probes, but you are delaying your expo in favor of more troops) must always have some risk to it to reap any reward. Consider the 8 gate push from Protoss off of two bases. It delays the third significantly if you attack with it. However, it is not considered a "complete" allin because you still have two bases. Now consider the 4 gate push. It delays your expo significantly if you attack with it. However it is considered allin because you only have one base. This logic is stupid. Both can win/lose you the game, but the more likely outcome is for the game to continue with one player at an advantage. A push off of one base is similar to a push off of two bases in so many ways yet we define them completely differently because one hits earlier. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. | ||
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Forbidden17
666 Posts
Poll: In your opinion, is 8gate off 2base all-in? Yes, if you don't win with it you're as good as dead (7) No, it is possible to transition even if it fails (5) 12 total votes Your vote: In your opinion, is 8gate off 2base all-in? (Vote): Yes, if you don't win with it you're as good as dead | ||
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Boiler Bandsman
United States391 Posts
On April 19 2012 14:25 Forbidden17 wrote: Well ok let's see what the general consensus is then. Poll: In your opinion, is 8gate off 2base all-in? Yes, if you don't win with it you're as good as dead (7) No, it is possible to transition even if it fails (5) 12 total votes Your vote: In your opinion, is 8gate off 2base all-in? (Vote): Yes, if you don't win with it you're as good as dead The thing is, it's not binary. It's possible to do damage without outright winning, then transition out. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On April 19 2012 10:42 coriamon wrote: Yet when even pressure builds are called "allin" because they need to do damage, people are missusing the word Allin. Allin assumes that you CANNOT get back; a high pressure build can always get back if you do SOME damage. You may not win outright, but if you trade armies efficiently, you can make back what you lost from mining time. If a 5 voidray attack deals enough damage, why would it be allin at all? Simply pull back and expand into a lead. We are at a point in our metagame where we no longer accept "pressure builds" as legitamate play. If you do not expand by the 8:00 minute mark, you are completely allin. This is untrue. You dare question BW Liquidpedia! Blasphemy!!! 10minutes on 1 base. That is totally not all in. [/sarcasm]. At 10min most players are preparing to get their third. And 1 base void ray is not a "pressure build". These are pressure builds. 1 Rax Maruder vs. Protoss 2 Rax b4 Orbital vs. Zerg 2 Rax Stim vs. Protoss These builds if they fail to do damage are still fine because they leave room to continue the game without being to far behind. Now if I 1 base 1-1-1 or 1base Void Ray and attack at the 10min and I fail, I'm pretty much f'ed up in my chances of winning unless I am in Gold league. I am not saying 1gate stargate is all in. No. We see Protoss do it all the time. But waiting until the 10min mark on 1 base while massing CheeseRays. Yeah, thats all in. + Show Spoiler + Hope this made sense. Its like 2:30am where I'm at and I'm procrastinating writing a 10 page report for Microbiology | ||
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