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On March 28 2011 08:39 yjin wrote:
You know how hydras and roaches have melee attacks? So for example if I research +1 ranged attack a hydra, and it gets close to, say, a zergling, and does the melee attack. Is the change just cosmetic, or does the upgrade not apply?
cosmetic
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On March 28 2011 09:22 underdawg wrote:
do you guys agree with day9 that you should normally not get siege right away? he seems to think you should get siege mode when you're about to push out, not when you get your first tank...but isn't 1 sieged tank much better than 1 unsieged tank for defending, which is always useful? he has said this several times.
i think day nine is saying that if you are going for siege tanks and you have gas for a tank or siege mode get the tank because 1 tank without siegemode is better than 0 taniks with siegemode
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On March 28 2011 09:38 Allred wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 09:22 underdawg wrote:
do you guys agree with day9 that you should normally not get siege right away? he seems to think you should get siege mode when you're about to push out, not when you get your first tank...but isn't 1 sieged tank much better than 1 unsieged tank for defending, which is always useful? he has said this several times. i think day nine is saying that if you are going for siege tanks and you have gas for a tank or siege mode get the tank because 1 tank without siegemode is better than 0 taniks with siegemode
but he is more talking about 2 tanks v. 1 tank with siege, or 3 tanks v. 2 tanks with siege, etc. i just don't get why
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I was wondering that many zergs think their armies are too small so why don't they some mass cancelling when they are at 200/200? Say build 40 spore crawlers, lose 750 min. but have a 240/200 army or is that just not worth the difference or the apm?
I just havent seen any pros doing this I think, if someone knows a pro that does this and knows a replay, well; please =)
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but he is more talking about 2 tanks v. 1 tank with siege, or 3 tanks v. 2 tanks with siege, etc. i just don't get why
This is because when you straight to tanks, your standing army will not be very substantial and will be vulnerable to an attack. Remember that the most important part of a strategy or build is to stay alive long enough to actually attack. Two tanks take only 10 more seconds to make, but their combined DPS will be higher than just one SIEGED tank. (In fact, according to Liquipedia, a single unsieged tank has higher dps than a sieged tank. link )
Also, an early attacking opponent can always just run up to a sieged tank because of your lack of supporting units and just snipe it, what is siege worth to you then?
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On March 28 2011 10:25 ngri wrote:
I was wondering that many zergs think their armies are too small so why don't they some mass cancelling when they are at 200/200? Say build 40 spore crawlers, lose 750 min. but have a 240/200 army or is that just not worth the difference or the apm?
I just havent seen any pros doing this I think, if someone knows a pro that does this and knows a replay, well; please =)
I'm confused. 40 spore crawlers=3000 minerals (plus the inherent 2000 spent on drones).
Zerg players armies are small and potentially squishy (Hydra, baneling, zergling). I think a lot of bm about their armies being too small translates to misuse or assisted suicide via toss deathball.
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On March 28 2011 12:37 JabbaDaButt wrote:Show nested quote +but he is more talking about 2 tanks v. 1 tank with siege, or 3 tanks v. 2 tanks with siege, etc. i just don't get why This is because when you straight to tanks, your standing army will not be very substantial and will be vulnerable to an attack. Remember that the most important part of a strategy or build is to stay alive long enough to actually attack. Two tanks take only 10 more seconds to make, but their combined DPS will be higher than just one SIEGED tank. (In fact, according to Liquipedia, a single unsieged tank has higher dps than a sieged tank. link ) Also, an early attacking opponent can always just run up to a sieged tank because of your lack of supporting units and just snipe it, what is siege worth to you then?
?
1 sieged tank kills lings in one or two shots i believe. marines melt to them too. DPS obviously misleading with splash. a siege tank on the high ground cannot be sniped easily. and who said i'm teching straight to tanks? not trying to be difficult, but i still think a sieged tank does a lot more for your defense than two unsieged tanks, especially against zerg.
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On March 28 2011 10:25 ngri wrote:
I was wondering that many zergs think their armies are too small so why don't they some mass cancelling when they are at 200/200? Say build 40 spore crawlers, lose 750 min. but have a 240/200 army or is that just not worth the difference or the apm?
I just havent seen any pros doing this I think, if someone knows a pro that does this and knows a replay, well; please =)
zergs can remax faster than any race, so the money in late game is more useful saved in the bank along with your larva. and the spines won't help on the offense, and are outranged by tanks/collo
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On March 28 2011 13:18 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 10:25 ngri wrote:
I was wondering that many zergs think their armies are too small so why don't they some mass cancelling when they are at 200/200? Say build 40 spore crawlers, lose 750 min. but have a 240/200 army or is that just not worth the difference or the apm?
I just havent seen any pros doing this I think, if someone knows a pro that does this and knows a replay, well; please =) I'm confused. 40 spore crawlers=3000 minerals (plus the inherent 2000 spent on drones). Zerg players armies are small and potentially squishy (Hydra, baneling, zergling). I think a lot of bm about their armies being too small translates to misuse or assisted suicide via toss deathball.
This is right and wrong. Zerg armies aren't small, they're generally considered to be less cost-effective than toss or terran armies because of how cheap the majority of their units are.
I assume most don't do mass cancelling because they simply cant afford it. Like stated above you would need 100 per spore cancelled plus the cost of each unit to build.
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also cutting your drone count by 40 is pretty nuts. zerg doesn't have mules.
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On March 28 2011 13:24 underdawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 12:37 JabbaDaButt wrote:but he is more talking about 2 tanks v. 1 tank with siege, or 3 tanks v. 2 tanks with siege, etc. i just don't get why This is because when you straight to tanks, your standing army will not be very substantial and will be vulnerable to an attack. Remember that the most important part of a strategy or build is to stay alive long enough to actually attack. Two tanks take only 10 more seconds to make, but their combined DPS will be higher than just one SIEGED tank. (In fact, according to Liquipedia, a single unsieged tank has higher dps than a sieged tank. link ) Also, an early attacking opponent can always just run up to a sieged tank because of your lack of supporting units and just snipe it, what is siege worth to you then? ? 1 sieged tank kills lings in one or two shots i believe. marines melt to them too. DPS obviously misleading with splash. a siege tank on the high ground cannot be sniped easily. and who said i'm teching straight to tanks? not trying to be difficult, but i still think a sieged tank does a lot more for your defense than two unsieged tanks, especially against zerg.
I have to agree with the 1seiged tank vs 2 unseiged.
In gerneral:
Seige tanks in 1's AND 2's are generally pretty USELESS unless behind an amazingly strong wall. Seige tanks in 1's and 2's are not effective unless in an attacking position, where there is no fear of being overwhelmed or overrun. However, in a defensive position, 1-2 seige tanks are practically useless against a zerg push UNLESS the terran also has a comparitvely decent sized army to fight with. A tank-heavy army only begins becoming effective when theres like 7+ tanks in it to kill most things before they get within attacking range. Small numbers of tanks are just plain BAD agasint any sizeable force without proper army composition. They should be seen as "complements" to the army until 7+ are produced.
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^
i can't tell who you're agreeing with but i have to get 1 tank before i can get 7. also even a few tanks are sweet against zerg especially because lings and banes melt to them. and yes, i have marines also to shield thing from a surround
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I´m wondering if its viable to add a ghost with emp in one of your drop ships when doing drop harras againts toss?
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On March 28 2011 15:17 Kruudos wrote:
I´m wondering if its viable to add a ghost with emp in one of your drop ships when doing drop harras againts toss?
A ghost instead of another hellion/marauder/etc is one less unit used to actually do damage. It's much more effective to use EMP during a battle, to nullify storms and wipe out the shields of the opposing army so you can kill it. Harassing units can already do lots on their own, albeit with proper micro.
Also, harassment may not be as effective by the time you field out ghosts.
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On March 28 2011 09:22 underdawg wrote:
do you guys agree with day9 that you should normally not get siege right away? he seems to think you should get siege mode when you're about to push out, not when you get your first tank...but isn't 1 sieged tank much better than 1 unsieged tank for defending, which is always useful? he has said this several times.
you would need to hit 3 units within .4687 (pixels?) of each other every shot for 1 sieged tank to beat the dps of 2 unsieged tanks. so it's up to you how likely you think 3 units being that clumped are 
or i guess you could have 2 units within .4687 and 2 units between .4687 and .7812
obviously it gets really complicated with the splash radius and bonus to armored, but that's a general idea of how effective siege is
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Does EMP work on protoss building shields?
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On March 28 2011 10:23 underdawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 09:38 Allred wrote:On March 28 2011 09:22 underdawg wrote:
do you guys agree with day9 that you should normally not get siege right away? he seems to think you should get siege mode when you're about to push out, not when you get your first tank...but isn't 1 sieged tank much better than 1 unsieged tank for defending, which is always useful? he has said this several times. i think day nine is saying that if you are going for siege tanks and you have gas for a tank or siege mode get the tank because 1 tank without siegemode is better than 0 taniks with siegemode but he is more talking about 2 tanks v. 1 tank with siege, or 3 tanks v. 2 tanks with siege, etc. i just don't get why
I think his reasoning is that if the tanks aren't going to be shooting at all, it doesn't matter if they have siege or not, therefore the money used on siege mode is better used on something else (like another tank). This makes perfect sense if you are pretty sure that no attack is coming for you, and you are not planning an attack. However, it is pretty hard to know for sure an attack is not coming, and the research time is not exactly instantaneous, so if you are not a pro, I dunno how well his idea would work out.
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On March 28 2011 23:46 esre wrote:
Does EMP work on protoss building shields?
Yep. Energy too.
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you don't need sieged tanks for defense unless your opponent is terran and is rushing siege tanks to push you. So that money is better spend elsewhere until you are actually going to use siege to contain or push is what he is saying i believe.
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On March 28 2011 23:56 Synystyr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2011 23:46 esre wrote:
Does EMP work on protoss building shields? Yep. Energy too.
Following up on that, Terrans could do some nasty EMP+Nuke combo to instantly destroy a protoss base.
I have yet to see someone actually do that tho. D:
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EPT
