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[G] Ultras in ZvT /w image heavy + reps - Page 7

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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TiBe
Profile Joined November 2009
Mexico200 Posts
January 26 2011 06:29 GMT
#121
Well I just give a try twice today.. And it worked wonderful, I think this is game changing :-)
Just in case someone care, it was on Blistering Sands and he has like 6 tanks and took the center, so I just walked toward the victory (as Jimmy did with roaches XD) with something like 6 ultras tanking damage and tons of bans + lings with carapece upgrade :D
naventus
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States1339 Posts
January 26 2011 06:35 GMT
#122
The counter to ultras is a ton of marines, and perhaps a few thors.

But T will just like Z, will have be streaming production cycles of marines onto the field.
hmm.
hiyo_bye
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States737 Posts
January 26 2011 06:48 GMT
#123
Great read, I agree with you. I play random, and I always hate the ZvT and TvZ matchups. it always feela to me that T either wins with some cheesy stuff or a marine tank push, or Zerg makes successful muta harrasses that keeps T in the base. Personally, I hate depending on mutas, because they cost so much and are too fragile in a battle.

I've been doing essentially what you wrote recently, getting bored of mutas. I personally try to tech to infesgors quickly, and use them with banes and lings to keep killing off their supply of marines. Then as soon as I get like five ultras out with a near max army, I can typically just make a deathpush. works like a charm.
Random
Capnstank
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada47 Posts
January 26 2011 06:58 GMT
#124
You made an excellent point regarding the ultras sucking up the majority of splash damage: something I never thought of. Excellent strategy, I hope I can give it a whirl soon
ChoboCop
Profile Joined July 2004
United States954 Posts
January 26 2011 09:08 GMT
#125
Thanks for making a replay pack showing ultralisk play. I'm excited to dig through it!
Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered.
Dio
Profile Joined September 2010
South Africa9 Posts
January 26 2011 10:31 GMT
#126
great guide, thanks! i am only a plat zerg but i've been using a similar strat quite often vs terran recently. if the terran is on only 2 bases and fully turtled with bunkers and turrets i sometimes skip mutas completely, race to ultras and make a ton of ling/bling. if i do make mutas i make only 6-8 to harass and then race to ultras. upgrades are important for this strat - it's so awesome to watch a 3/3 ultra/crackling/bling force chew easily thru anything terran puts up

Carpe diem et noctem
Cirn9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1117 Posts
January 26 2011 12:16 GMT
#127
I like ultras, until one marauder stims and kills them all like tearing through paper
Unprotected sex is like fast expanding in close positions. Its risky, but feels great when it works out
Ajunta
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany522 Posts
January 26 2011 12:43 GMT
#128
very nice OP, I'll definitely try this out
seodoth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands319 Posts
January 26 2011 12:54 GMT
#129
On January 26 2011 21:16 mikku wrote:
I like ultras, until one marauder stims and kills them all like tearing through paper

That's why you'd probably want to open ling-baneling-infestor, late spire, so you can fungal those marauders/marines from kiting any ultras.
nerrr
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia47 Posts
January 26 2011 13:02 GMT
#130
OK - earnt myself a nice 13 pts with my 2/5 ultra/ling/bling into 0/0 tank and marines...

wasnt really a good showcase of the strength of this build but definitely will be putting it in my stratedgy bag... shame I can't get ultras to work well vs P - the pathing infuriates me
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
January 26 2011 14:00 GMT
#131
Last night I got the chance to try using Ultralisks as suggested here. We spawned at close positions on Shakuras plateau, and I went ling/bling/infestor/muta - just a couple of infestors to help delay any pushes and to help justify the cost of going for hive relatively early. He went marine/tank/medivac and tried to push in through the rocks at the back. We traded armies a couple of times while my ultralisk cavern was building and upgrading, and while my five ultralisks were spawning, and it felt exactly like every other ZvT I've played lately: I was able to hold him off (especially with the infestors) but I didn't feel like I was getting anywhere.

This thread had led me to believe that an ultralisk/baneling attack would be different: that the ultralisk's size and threat priority would cause them to absorb the withering combined damage output of tanks and marines, allowing more of the banelings to get through and do damage.

That's not what happened.

What happened was that versus eight sieged tanks and whatever's-left-over supply of marines, pretty much none of the banelings managed to miss.

The corner of my base which had until a moment before contained the accumulated might of the Terran empire now looked like Silent Hill - if Silent Hill had four slightly scuffed ultralisks stamping around in it - with the essentially atomised constituent parts of my opponent drifting down on top of them like very surprised dandruff.

And thirty seconds later I had the same army ready to go all over again.

In summary, this is an alarmingly effective technique. I recommend protective goggles.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
January 26 2011 14:10 GMT
#132
On January 26 2011 23:00 Umpteen wrote:
In summary, this is an alarmingly effective technique. I recommend protective goggles.


Best post in the thread IMO.
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
Ballbreaker
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany97 Posts
January 26 2011 14:13 GMT
#133
Ultras are actually fairly nice as long as you have some banelings to get the small units like Marines out of the way... Against Tanks and Thors, Ultralisks do a good job.
"Life is like a box of chocolate. You never know what you are going to get." -Forest Gump
DizzyDrone
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands629 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-26 14:23:05
January 26 2011 14:19 GMT
#134
the main problem with ultras in sc2 is that they lack something very important that they did have in sc1 - dark swarm. this just makes them extremely vulnerable to marauders and siege tanks. most of the time winning with ultralisks means you were doing great anyway, and swapping out of ling roach bling infestor muta wasn't needed anyway.
Lovin
Profile Joined May 2009
Denmark812 Posts
January 26 2011 14:46 GMT
#135
On January 26 2011 10:09 Griffith` wrote:
Most people don't realize that ultras are much better than their BW counterparts:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Ultralisk
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Ultralisk

DMG: 20 -> 15/35
HP: 400->500
Cost: 200->300

Essentially, for 100 minerals extra, Ultras get 100 more HP and 15 more damage against armored. A very goo deal.

Compare that to the tank (which was BW's only way of dealing with ultras):

Siege Tanks used to 70 damage against ultras. Now they do 50.
Siege Tanks cost 3 supply
Siege Tanks cost 25 more gas



All of which are true statements, but you omit the fact that the SCII ultralisk has had a speedreduction, and this is where it's faults lie.
The ultralisk was not in Broodwar built to kill off the terran in direct confrontation, but to outmaneuver his slow forces, striking different points, poking holes in his defense, and killing/stalling expansions etc.
This way when the battles came, the zerg would have more resources for resupply, (and could do so faster) than the terran, even though his army was quite a bit stronger than zerg's.
AKA SuddenSalad
SchLing
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway27 Posts
January 26 2011 14:49 GMT
#136
[quote=SmallCuteHydra]All games discussed from here on out will be between Master level players averaging 2500-3000 pts as of current date (Jan 24th).[/quote]

I almost stopped reading here. What a load of elitist horseshit really. Why can't us plat and now diamond players dicuss (or even lower)? We have brains too, but maybe not the game time to get the hours played to reach high level Master league. We might not have super crisp timing either, but we can still put together a combined forced to deal with something.

The elitist shit aside I would say that this is a great write up of the experience you have with it. And after reading it yesterday I ended up testing it out against a Terran player that went for Marines\Maurauders and Tanks and it worked great.

Personally I ended up with Infestors instead of having Mutas because I wanted to trap him a posistion where he could not get a nice arch around me. I noticed that it worked great not only because it made the day easier for my banelings. But also because fungal deals AoE dmg. Since the Ultra also deals AoE damage it ended up killing large amount of units fast. The end result was that he lost to much fire power to deal with Ultras and Zerglings at the same time.

Just getting yourself into a good posistion and sending in the units here doesn't require amazing APM either. It's more about reading the terrain and say "This is where I want to fight", and often more important "I don't want to fight here".
DizzyDrone
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands629 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-26 14:55:22
January 26 2011 14:53 GMT
#137
On January 26 2011 23:49 SchLing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2011 11:27 SmallCuteHydra wrote:
All games discussed from here on out will be between Master level players averaging 2500-3000 pts as of current date (Jan 24th).



I almost stopped reading here. What a load of elitist horseshit really. Why can't us plat and now diamond players dicuss (or even lower)? We have brains too, but maybe not the game time to get the hours played to reach high level Master league. We might not have super crisp timing either, but we can still put together a combined forced to deal with something.



Did you even consider that he might just be talking about the games discussed in his post?
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-26 14:57:56
January 26 2011 14:57 GMT
#138
EDIT: beaten to it.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
mastman
Profile Joined December 2010
United States4 Posts
January 26 2011 14:57 GMT
#139
Fruitdealer was on to something in the first GSL when he used ultras all the time?
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
January 26 2011 15:03 GMT
#140
On January 26 2011 23:57 mastman wrote:
Fruitdealer was on to something in the first GSL when he used ultras all the time?


I can't remember the games exactly, but no. To my recollection he massed ultralisks, relying upon them to do damage as well as soak it up. This thread advocates combining a more modest number of ultralisks with a considerable number of banelings. The ultralisks stop the banelings getting gibbed before they get in range, and the banelings kill everything so quickly that the ultralisks don't end up taking as much damage. Result: some ultralisks left over which can be quickly reinforced with more banelings to lead a second charge.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
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