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How to exactly micro a protoss army like a pro?

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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crazyskills
Profile Joined August 2010
36 Posts
January 17 2011 05:40 GMT
#1
Hi I didnt play SC1 much and I am now 2800+ diamond protoss. I've watched a ton of pro matches and played almost 1500 games, but to this day I'm still not 100% sure how to exactly micro units. I'm curious as to what all you high level/pro players do exactly in a battle? Example do you # ur zealots 1 and stalkers 2 and coll 3? And do u do "a" attack with zealots, and what commands for stalkers? I understand completely on moving hurt units back and when to chase an army and when to be moving back, I'm just still not exactly sure on what buttons/commands to give each units. Most of the time i use "a" ground with stalkers then i start boxing units and and killing off hurt units or the important ones, but I know that I'm missing out on something> I see a lot of people bashing on Attack move, so I know for sure I need to learn more about the commands. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to answer

Summerfield
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden88 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 05:58:02
January 17 2011 05:55 GMT
#2
You do use the tab key with your army right? Makes any micro a whole lot easier. The only hot keys I use when moving my Protoss army are the stalkers if they have blink and the high templars to quickly get storm so I don't screw up by clicking past them while in a critical position in battle. Usually I have stalkers on 5 to just move my finger directly down to push B to blink and the HT on 6 to push T when storming.
"And this queen is like F-u darkshrine you are dying like the bitch you are!" - PsYstarcraft
wishbones
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada2600 Posts
January 17 2011 06:13 GMT
#3
this should help.

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/CrunCher
joined TL.net in 2006 (aka GMer) - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=41944#2
Schwopzi
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands954 Posts
January 17 2011 06:16 GMT
#4
The most important thing to micro in a protoss army is your unit positioning, for example zealots up front, followed by sentries for key ff, immortals behind those, stalkers behind those, colossus at the back, ht's in a different group always positioned in a protected spot. Then it's just a-move in if you attack, place forcefields, hit key storms, target fire armoured units with immortals, micro colossus away from focus fire, focus viking/corruptor with stalkers. More then enough to do!
Ofcourse your unit positioning depends on the situation at hand, vs ghosts you'll want to try to feedback before combat, vs tanks you want to have immortals up front, etc etc.
Only the dead have seen the end of war
Spectorials
Profile Joined October 2010
558 Posts
January 17 2011 06:20 GMT
#5
No offense to wishbones or cruncher but I just opened that stream as he warped in 4 DTs on jungle basin and he literally did no micro :S.

Very little attempts to move DTs in different directions to avoid scans. Didn't target mules with the DTs...
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 06:41:13
January 17 2011 06:39 GMT
#6
On January 17 2011 15:20 Spectorials wrote:
No offense to wishbones or cruncher but I just opened that stream as he warped in 4 DTs on jungle basin and he literally did no micro :S.

Very little attempts to move DTs in different directions to avoid scans. Didn't target mules with the DTs...


Microing 6 DTs against a guy who doesn't even have ebay up yet: not worth it.

On topic, just do things that make sense. Early game PvT, for example, usually you'll just want to a move zealot while focusing down the 2-3 marauders they have with stalker/sentry. Once the marauders are gone zealot+stalker just tears through marines.
www.infinityseven.net
crazyskills
Profile Joined August 2010
36 Posts
January 17 2011 06:40 GMT
#7
ok ty , i do all of this most of the time.. i was just wondering if i was missing out on something...Like my friend recently told me to do "s" or stop command with ranged and they will stay put and fire and i was wondering when to apply that because i always use a move. Also i was wondering what command groups do u make ur units? lately ive been lazy and putting all gateway units in control group # 1 and using tab if i want to blink or ff and then templar and or coll in dif groups. I was thinking in my mind its prob best to break them dont zealots #1, ranged #2 and then special units 3...but im not totally sure, so any and all suggestions helps. thanks for detailed replies guys
wishbones
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada2600 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 06:48:31
January 17 2011 06:47 GMT
#8
for hotkeys. i place (melee/tank unit#1) (stalker#2) (long range/air#3)

#1 being units that will go in first, #2 being units that will be behind any of the first units, #3 being anything i don't want running directly into the fight but instead fighting from behind. so sentries/air/collosi etc..
joined TL.net in 2006 (aka GMer) - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=41944#2
Hane
Profile Joined November 2010
France210 Posts
January 17 2011 09:08 GMT
#9
On January 17 2011 15:47 wishbones wrote:
for hotkeys. i place (melee/tank unit#1) (stalker#2) (long range/air#3)

#1 being units that will go in first, #2 being units that will be behind any of the first units, #3 being anything i don't want running directly into the fight but instead fighting from behind. so sentries/air/collosi etc..


pros don't use those hotkeys to micro during battles.
zorion
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden72 Posts
January 17 2011 10:31 GMT
#10
well micro to focus fire is the thing I focus most on after the initial battlesettup and spellcaster abbilities.

ie make sure my imortals spread their fire aswell as the colossus(ies) not have all my stalkers fire on random targets, but rather trying to get grps of 5or6 shift clicked on targets
also trying the get a runby with a couple of zealeots to a flank to drag away AI fire from my dps units ot if lucky get em in the base to harras keybuildings/workers.

I hate when i do 2(stalker grp) target klick a banshee or so instead of selecting just acouple of em...
have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?
aesth
Profile Joined November 2010
2 Posts
January 17 2011 11:00 GMT
#11
Hi; I'm about 600 points bellow you, so take my advice with a grain of salt

There is this day9 daily where LiquidTyler plays a PvP and he is behind in army value, but wins the fights by colossus micro (he basically positions them nicely and targets the enemy colossi from a ~20° angle if I recall this right, you better go and search for said episode).

Aside from that there is not much that I do aside from moving the stalkers so all of them keep hitting the enemy (either spread them out or move them). I think what improved my P micro the best was smurfing as a T with a friend's account, as MM reaps such huge benefit from micro you will naturally want to micro them. And many things you do with Marines (like running from Zerglings while shooting, preventing a proper surround) can be done with Stalkers too!

But what's probably the best idea for you to do is get some high APM player's replay pack and watch what he is doing. In fact, forget my personal advice and do that!
wowsukz
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands58 Posts
January 17 2011 14:02 GMT
#12
On January 17 2011 15:39 PJA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2011 15:20 Spectorials wrote:
No offense to wishbones or cruncher but I just opened that stream as he warped in 4 DTs on jungle basin and he literally did no micro :S.

Very little attempts to move DTs in different directions to avoid scans. Didn't target mules with the DTs...


Microing 6 DTs against a guy who doesn't even have ebay up yet: not worth it.



Sure its not worth it to win the game.

What is this?
PaPoolee
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Netherlands660 Posts
January 17 2011 14:09 GMT
#13
2500~ masters here, 3k diamond prepatch and i put zealots on #1 sentries #2 stalkers #3 HT#6 Colossi or special units that aren't mentioned up are on my logitech G5's Xbuttons => zealots in front, behind them sentries + immortals then stalker/colossi! ht's should be spread out infront of the army, the back and the sides .
da_head
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3350 Posts
January 17 2011 14:10 GMT
#14
i like to group up my zlots, sentries, and immortals in one hotkey since they have the same movement speed (before speed upgraded), stalkers in another group, collosus in another.

basically it goes like this:
early game: nexus 1
zlot/sentry 2
stalkers 3

mid game: nexus 1
ground ball 2
collo 3
phoenix/voids 4
important building 5
obs 0

late game: depends what composition i have, but usually the same as mid game.

Yes i know having nexus as 1 is terribad, but its a bad habit i have from bw -___-
but whee for having a free hotkey for warpgates. helps a lot
When they see MC Probe, all the ladies disrobe.
tadgh11
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada14 Posts
January 17 2011 14:41 GMT
#15
Split up sentries / ht so they aren't sniped as easily, or EMPed.
lolrider
Profile Joined July 2010
United States12 Posts
January 17 2011 14:52 GMT
#16
On January 17 2011 18:08 Hane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2011 15:47 wishbones wrote:
for hotkeys. i place (melee/tank unit#1) (stalker#2) (long range/air#3)

#1 being units that will go in first, #2 being units that will be behind any of the first units, #3 being anything i don't want running directly into the fight but instead fighting from behind. so sentries/air/collosi etc..


pros don't use those hotkeys to micro during battles.



So Hane - what do pros do?
tadgh11
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada14 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 14:58:17
January 17 2011 14:57 GMT
#17
Oddly enough it seems like a lot of have their armies on one hotkey and their casters only on another hotkey. If their army's in a bad position, they re-position it manually before engaging. Of course the method of zealots on 1, stalkers on 2 etc is better logically.
Nifel
Profile Joined June 2010
706 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 15:08:33
January 17 2011 15:05 GMT
#18
I'm just a scrub so don't heed my advice too much, but anyway, I usually divide units depending on speed and role. I have zealots, immortals and archons on 1 and then just use ctrl+click to select and direct the immortals (you don't want them shooting marines when there are marauders etc.). On 2 I keep my stalkers to make sure I can micro and blink without doing any mistakes. 3 is usually my sentries early game (later on they're passed on to 1 as they match the speed of zealots and immortals) and colossi/templars/void rays. 4 is my production buildings (which I shift through with tab) and nexus on 5. Any drops or harassing units such as phoenix I usually keep on 6 and observers, manner pylons or gas steal assimilators are put on 7.

Yeah, I do hotkey a lot. And yes, it might seem like a huge mess. But trust me, compared to my Brood War hotkeys this is really well structured and thought out.
crazyskills
Profile Joined August 2010
36 Posts
January 17 2011 18:46 GMT
#19
ok all great answers guys...does anyone use S or H ...stop or hold for their ranges units? i think i will try grouping zealots/sent/immortals as one group, thats makes a lot of sense and will help with spacing for sure. usually what ive been doing lately is all units in 1 control group and then templar or coll in another , obs 0, nexus(s) 5, important buildings 4 with tab through. but was really just feeling lazy so was def curious as to what ya'll were doin, and as to if anyone uses any dif commands besides A move and then boxing and selecting units to crush...thnx for all info!
Eggcake
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland722 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-17 19:40:33
January 17 2011 19:38 GMT
#20
For me:

1: Zealot/Sentry/Immortal
2: Stalker
3: Colossi/HT
4: Phoenix/VoidRays
5: Robo/Stargate
6: Nexus
7-9: Special things like DTs, Drops/Split up group or 2nd Observer
0: Observer

There are pros who don't use any hotkeys for their armies, but obviously it is much easier if you do and it's way easier no matter how good you are.

I know for a fact that TLO didn't use hotkeys for his armies (maybe sometimes) for a long time.
OfficerTJHooker
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada97 Posts
January 17 2011 19:45 GMT
#21
Protoss micro isn't spectacularly hard until you have actual abilities you need to micro with. For example, Colossi/Stalker balls are fairly simple to control. Hotkey your stalkers and colossi in separate groups, so you can easily reposition/move your colossi behind when they are under focus fire, and get your stalkers into a more protective position when this happens.

Stuff starts to get hard when you throw in zealots, sentries, high templars, and air units.

The only thing you have to worry about zealots is them not getting stuck behind stalkers (seriously, it's so annoying when that happens). Sentries however, don't move quickly and so they might not always be in position for those perfect force fields when you need them.

High templars are extremely susceptible to fire, and even moreso EMPs. Basically, you need to control a lot of things as you add them to your repertoire of units.
Scoot and turn, scoot and turn...
Hane
Profile Joined November 2010
France210 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-18 09:23:44
January 18 2011 09:17 GMT
#22
On January 17 2011 23:52 lolrider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2011 18:08 Hane wrote:
On January 17 2011 15:47 wishbones wrote:
for hotkeys. i place (melee/tank unit#1) (stalker#2) (long range/air#3)

#1 being units that will go in first, #2 being units that will be behind any of the first units, #3 being anything i don't want running directly into the fight but instead fighting from behind. so sentries/air/collosi etc..


pros don't use those hotkeys to micro during battles.



So Hane - what do pros do?


all micro is with mouse ^^'
HT or sentry micro is OK with 1+F or 2+T/F, but when you have to back something, focus, move... Mouse is better IMO, It's harder too cause you have to be fast and don't miss, but your micro is way better ^^'

Btw in sc² macro > micro so don't focus too much on it, wc3 is an other story :/
LsPhizix
Profile Joined January 2011
23 Posts
February 08 2011 02:29 GMT
#23
this is turning into a hot key thread instead of a how
Micro of a large Protoss army while inside of an engagement

i am not a pro, a humble gold league Protoss, but i have played 1200 games and watched countless hours of live stream of pros. so that i dont take up the whole page, my thought process on proper micro of Protoss army is this:

+ Show Spoiler +

1. if you are in battle and have all of each hot key groups setup like what is being described, you will insta fail by overkill on one unit/making your unit AI not work properly on units already being in position. <--- do not use your hot keys like this. doesnt help micro at all
-by holding ctrl + clicking a unit (for me) will select all similar units in vision.
position your army in <3 seconds(haha its a heart i know i did it on purpose) and make them attack in order by using this and spreading them(boxing a group of 4 out of a group of 8 moving)
-im using hot keys as 1NForgeTemplarTwilightCyber/2GatewayRoboStarport(wg has universal hot key q) so easy to tab buildings want to check probes, chrono boost "1", want to check upgrades of all your possible upgrades "1-tab"
- 8 hot keys available = i put all of my sentries with all of my zealots(i never micro them) into 4 for the quickest forcef,gs, 1/2HTs into 5, other half in 6 just to be safe about movement,
7 - harass groups / phoenix warp prism harass
8 - control group of defensive army (2zealot/4stalkers/colossus/void mix) to deal with drops and not move your entire army out of position)
all situational and preferential and can all change at any time.

2. Focus Fire a certain enemy unit while engaged by shift-click the amount of units to send over more after if you need it. if you are setting up your army correctly you should not have a hard time reinforcing as P and will most likely have 1-2 warp prisms for harass/ warping in on the lines not going back to your base, as this makes your micro go away for as much time as it takes to WG the X amount of GW you have.

3. colossus micro is extremely easy and if done right it takes a long time for 6 colossus to go down.
-look at his aa and move the first engaged colossus immediately past the direction of stalkers should be in an arch of some sort and past it then one by one your colossus is moving and 5 are attacking while auto attack of stalkers hits their backup they can either switch targets and loose all those units/ the fight or reposition them himself, look for spots in his position can be compromised by ex cliffs, map chokes i never really focus fire with them unless its a building i really want
-when moving your colossus in battle, choose position so that it would immediately be able to fire upon arrival.

3. force field is used F then shift not the other way around, thats mega fail, and should b placed into a cup filled with th middle of his units, blocking the path of the other third of his units, and creating a choke for the 3rd set of his units. if you are falling back place them in a straight line
guardian shield takes about 2-3 to cover your entire armyu can use your extra hot keys to create a second group of 3 sentries that are your guardian sentries so you know they are in position/ initiate the hold position command then move if you are winning

4. stalker blink. im sure there is a full thread on it somewhere in here. the only mega fail i see is when people just blink their entire stalkers all in one shot it pisses me off. if you want to know more go watch some livestream or youtubes

5. storm - cover the ground with 160 aoe electricity / +1archon takes literally 2 seconds to do and i think 11 seconds INgame for archon. not sure if the unit ai auto joins the two lowest powered hts or in the order you have selected. if you know an engagement is coming have two up front for immediate storms on his army / feedback to ghosts(insta kill) and then morph archon for the two and you get him as the army is blocked by electricity. lay them down in blankets. not in a huge C or a straight line thats easy to get but if you fill the area behind him first he will either have engage into you where you would forcefield him, or go back through the entire storm also works if you know were he is storm as far in as you can to him if you know you are going to see him be ready.

6. Phoenix - have them all together in a group. they auto fire as they fly making them so amazing. in the min lines get them together before you go in then its moving into the mineral line and spamming grav beam on the gas gatherers/mules. spam the right button click to keep them tight in a ball so that you can see scvs to grav. usually goes grav then click grav then click etc
in large engagements decide what you want to use them for, as a damage dealer to soak up before your colossus in which attack at their airunits and drag them away from colossus. if you are using them for grav beam, lift anything of value, tanks, infestors, banelings(if u explode banelings with gravbeam it does splash damage to all units still.) you can send them in one at a time to pick up important units as the other dies by keeping yours on hold so that the group of them only moves 1 at a time to lift thinigs, but you could just have them massed and lift and killing marines which is sweet if their are zealots on the ground not being shot
against mutas engage them until they stop attacking then use your speed and range to chase him if he stops back off and reengage again.

7. Should you pull your army back? if you are thinking about it, youre prolly too late and will lose all units in the case of a massive fall back. keep an eye on your zealots and i try to engage in 4-7 second intervals depending on the outcomes of said intervals. ie: dont just suicide all of your zealots on the first engagement, move your stalkers forward to engage him prematurely into a storm then do it again and stay for a second, using blink micro to fall back troops 1 at a time to where your army resides and is in defensive positioning(spread zealots)forward colossus .then hes chasing into you to catch the damaged stalkers and he meets a wall of zealots that welcome an approaching enemy vs a fleeing one. if you do this damage, your shields will recharge for free. his units need be replenished and you've succeeded in your attack.



last thing and most importantly on topic statement
you will never micro like a pro unless you have practiced as much as they have. their micro is involved in their macro which never stops lest they die. they also know that if they havent slipped on macro they should be even if not ahead of all players. they have ridiculous mouse control and are able to make the exact right selections every time.
there is a reason they have such high apm. they are making 300 commands. they do a lot in those battles. a lot, as in
using immortals individually, each on a different marauder and not let it autofire after unless no armored are left, while backing a colossus, while droping storms, while force fielding, while flanking with poped up archons, while blinking stalkers in to Focus fire, while warping in more zealots, while boosting their robos/sp/forge.... all in less than 5-7 seconds. not to mention if you watch them they always setup their army if they are just standing around. much better than just a clumped group of units.
they micro every single unit to be killing the unit that they should be killing and strive for optimized 100% usage of their army. you dont need 4 immortals on the same roach, you will kill more if you just are making sure they are always targeting correctly without being vulnerable... if his roaches are out of position and not attacking, you dont send them forward into the fray to attack them let them do ambient damage until they are needed.

things you can do to imitate them
-spam through your nexus and your probes early game to increase your apm, only realizing a minute later you forgot to train a probe and you are currently supply blocked and you havent moved your scout around the scouting position
Touch
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada475 Posts
February 08 2011 02:36 GMT
#24
On January 17 2011 15:47 wishbones wrote:
for hotkeys. i place (melee/tank unit#1) (stalker#2) (long range/air#3)

#1 being units that will go in first, #2 being units that will be behind any of the first units, #3 being anything i don't want running directly into the fight but instead fighting from behind. so sentries/air/collosi etc..
You died to one Zealot god damnit. What is this talk of micro?

Yeah, it's your daddy again, Sieg

Onto the OP's topic...micro is really all about practice, there's no secret behind it. Run the units back if they are red health so they may live, Zealots in front to tank damage, Force Fields to cut armies and cover retreats...that's about it. It's really fine to place all your ground into one hotkey, as long as you know to micro it during engagement.
Sieg
Engdrew
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States890 Posts
February 08 2011 04:20 GMT
#25
i am 2800 diamond + i watch a lot of huk stream whenever he's online

here's what works for me:

1. zealot sentry immortal
2. stalkers
3. collos phoenix void ray high temp
4. nexus
5. warp gates
6. robo
7. stargate

in general:
forcefield, make sure zealots are engaging units
move stalkers back if necessary
move collos forward to get max splash
use obs to spot when unsieging happens, move in then
just make sure your units arent in one hotkey, you want your zealots engaging while your stalkers are a-moving

vs banshee early
hotkey groups 2, 3 = stalkers + obs (one at main one at natural)
hotkey group 1 = zealot sentry to deflect oncoming attack while moving 2 + 3 back to choke

.
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