Hello all,

I am wondering how you Zergs succeed (or you Terrans fail) against the early bio stim push. I just played close positions on Metalopolis where I scouted what I thought to be the bio stim push, and was correct, but I simply didn't prepare well enough. The attack came just before baneling speed finished at around 7 minutes, but was largely a Maurader composition anyways.

When do you stop droning? What is your baneling to ling ratio? etc.

Spec

Taiwan931 Posts

January 14 2011 15:30 GMT

When you see them move out of their base, morph banes according to the marine count. If it's marauders just mass lings. Try to delay till speed finishes next time.

odeSSa

Sweden198 Posts

January 14 2011 15:30 GMT

If its mostly Marauder you only need lings. I actually like going +1 attack lings against terran, and a lot of them. Try to force stim before he gets to your base by engaging and retreating when he moves out.

CrayonKing

Cambodia124 Posts

January 14 2011 15:31 GMT

lings with speeds should be good enough, can you go into more detail what the terran went? 3rax?

Soliduok

Canada222 Posts

January 14 2011 15:38 GMT

Yea it was a 3 rax. I was only able to scout the one barracks with a tech lab and saw 2 marines and one maurader. When the push came he actually had about an even count of 10 rines and 10 marauders. Looking back I did get caught largely out of position with my banes which contributed to my demise.

Wilder

United Kingdom33 Posts

January 14 2011 15:43 GMT

I do get destroyed by this quite frequently but the use of spine crawlers and evo chambers to block the ball and help get a zergling surround usually thins the T out enough for your next batch of lings to come out.

I think it really is all about the positioning of your lings, banes and your buildings that hangs in the balance.

Amber[LighT]

United States5078 Posts

January 14 2011 15:56 GMT

you shouldn't need speed banelings for this. It seems like you're teching too much. Can you post a replay?

It's nice to know the addons of the barracks, which I know on some maps it's easier said than done. If there's 2 reactors you can get away with lings & roach or ling/bane. if there's 2 tech labs and a reactor then you can easily do a 5:1 ling:bane ratio. If there's 3 tech labs then all lings should work if you expanded.

Don't rush to tech if you see 3 rax. Typically you tech to get anti-air or counter factory or starport tactics. You also want to tech if he holds off and opts for an expand first, since there's some breathing room for you to drone up again.

T1 units are actually pretty effective "ON CREEP" vs. Terran. Make sure you spread at least one tumor as well. Home field advantage is helpful for flanking.

whomybuddy

United States620 Posts

January 14 2011 16:04 GMT

terran researched Stim. Zerg need to research something to counter that or else you'll lose.

CrayonKing

Cambodia124 Posts

January 14 2011 16:08 GMT

Just out of curiousty what league are you in? Im just wondering if 3rax all-in ish is still used in masters/diamond

Amber[LighT]

United States5078 Posts

January 14 2011 16:14 GMT

#10

On January 15 2011 01:08 CrayonKing wrote:
Just out of curiousty what league are you in? Im just wondering if 3rax all-in ish is still used in masters/diamond

It's uncommon in masters

On January 15 2011 01:04 whomybuddy wrote:
terran researched Stim. Zerg need to research something to counter that or else you'll lose.

That's not true.

Soliduok

Canada222 Posts

January 14 2011 16:15 GMT

#11

After watching the replay I did a little theory-crafting and I think it should be holdable if after getting ling speed, get lair, next 50 gas get baneling nest, then next 150 get baneling speed.Baneling speed will finish at 7:30 (very tight timing small maps) and all done with 1 gas. You can start pumping lings when you queen starts to give you larva, and you could probably afford a second queen somewhere in there for creep tumors. After successfully defending the attack you should have lots of minerals to expand (which the terran wil most likely be doing as well) and prepare for another bio stim (with combat shield) push at around 12. He will have double the army and following the same pattern as before you should aslo be able to conjur up double the army. Assuming all of this of course if your scouting information serves you correct.

Soliduok

Canada222 Posts

January 14 2011 16:16 GMT

#12

On January 15 2011 01:08 CrayonKing wrote:
Just out of curiousty what league are you in? Im just wondering if 3rax all-in ish is still used in masters/diamond

I am hovering at 2600 diamond. My opponent in this case was similar I believe.

Neivler

Norway911 Posts

January 14 2011 16:30 GMT

#13

I would not go bling speed. I would have teched to mutas, and made a few spines. But would not have any mutas for the battle. Just lings and slow blings. Then trying to surround him with the lings from behind when he attacks, so that he cant retreat from the spines, then send the blings from the front.

Starshaped

Sweden575 Posts

January 14 2011 17:10 GMT

#14

Banelings.

xciLe

Norway213 Posts

January 14 2011 18:20 GMT

#15

banelings REALY fuck me if they come unexpected. banelings and speedlings for the concave. and stimpush is impossible

Ponyo

United States1231 Posts

January 14 2011 18:33 GMT

#16

try to split up your lings so the terran overextends himself and then you are able to pull off a nice flank with some upgraded lings, and even catch some of his reinforcements off guard.

d_wAy

United States104 Posts

January 14 2011 21:42 GMT

#17

On January 15 2011 01:15 uok wrote:
After watching the replay I did a little theory-crafting and I think it should be holdable if after getting ling speed, get lair, next 50 gas get baneling nest, then next 150 get baneling speed.Baneling speed will finish at 7:30 (very tight timing small maps) and all done with 1 gas. You can start pumping lings when you queen starts to give you larva, and you could probably afford a second queen somewhere in there for creep tumors. After successfully defending the attack you should have lots of minerals to expand (which the terran wil most likely be doing as well) and prepare for another bio stim (with combat shield) push at around 12. He will have double the army and following the same pattern as before you should aslo be able to conjur up double the army. Assuming all of this of course if your scouting information serves you correct.

1 gas? By that time I would expect 30-40 drones between the main and natural and in general you should take your 2nd gas during lair anyway. Also instead of pumping units when your queen can inject.. I would recommend instead trying to squeeze out every last drone you can and aside from those beginning few lings to scout and hold off super early pressure, I don't see the need to make so many attacking units. As you poke up and see the number of units he has... you can make units accordingly (but its important to know.. that if you keep up on larvae injects.. you have time to create units because he hasn't moved out nor has he crossed the map yet!). I generally keep no more than around 8-10 lings floating around the base. These are the ones I change to banelings when he actually does move out. The rest of the zerglings I make when I see him leave his base.

As for the micro, sometimes its better to keep your lings slightly away from your base. This way, you can flank from behind or get your surround better. You want to run your lings slightly PAST the marines until you get a good surround and more importantly, block the marines in such a way that they can't micro against your slow banelings. Zerglings act as Zerg's forcefield, use them to block pathing so the marines cant do anything but blow up.

woowoo

France164 Posts

January 14 2011 22:20 GMT

#18

Why not use burrow to counter stim? Get a group of speedlings, send them dance near terran units, wait for stim, burrow, wait for scan, unburrow, flee out of range of scan, repeat.

Ptur

Ukraine85 Posts

January 14 2011 22:28 GMT

#19

creep is the key

adius

United States249 Posts

January 14 2011 22:33 GMT

#20

On January 15 2011 07:20 woowoo wrote:
Why not use burrow to counter stim? Get a group of speedlings, send them dance near terran units, wait for stim, burrow, wait for scan, unburrow, flee out of range of scan, repeat.

You're gonna get hurt during the unburrow animation and during the time it takes to get out of range.

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