EPT[G] Adel's No Gas PvP - Page 4
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drgonzhere
United States447 Posts
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bloodisblue
United States36 Posts
Most importantly it loses to zealot rushes where my opponent goes 2 gate and pumps out about 6 - 7 when i have 4 with two stalkers being made. Then my opponent reinforced wave after wave until he had mass stalkers which didn't help me  Secondly I would recremend what to do if the push fails. In my loss against the zealots I had a cannon going up then cancled it to produce another gateway (which in turn lost it for me). So if you could add a bit more on base defence or continued aggression if it fails before you get to their base. But overall I really like this build  athough it basically is a two gate push it is much easier to remember your basic steps of pylon gate pylon gate pylon Cyber / assimilater so thanks very much for making it seems so simple | ||
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HvidTiger
Denmark7 Posts
The key strength to this build, is that it is economically superior to most 4-gates, and i therefore have a different approach on the whole attacking part. Since I have the economic lead (expansion in the making), my priority is to trade units for units, thus delaying the inevitable counter significantly. With a unit trade planned ahead, i can cut not probes but pylons, because i know those inital 6 units (12 food) will be destroyed within a resonable timeframe, thus letting me get further ahead in the mineral war, I am waging upon my enemy. Here is my adapted build order for a bit superior economy: 9 Pylon-scout --> chrono as soon as pylon is finished 12 Gate --> chrono workers 15 Pylon --> chrono workers (save chronoes from now on) 17 Zealot 20 Gateway 20 Gas 21 Zealot 24 Pylon 25 Core 26 Zealot x2 (chrono out the one zealot you started latest) (when these zealots finish move out on the map so your faster stalkers can catch up) 30 Pylon 30 Stalker x2 --> chrono (these should line up near perfectly with core finishing 250 minerals and 100 gas) (attack as soon as the stalkers finish) @ 50 gas start warpgate, cant really remember that timing right now 34 Probe 35 Zealot 37 Probe 38 Stalker 40 Nexus + Pylon near nexus This is usually when the battle goes down, continue to pump units and workers off of one nexus DO NOT rally units, you are not all in with a nexus in the making. You should prioritize killing enemy units, and if they retreat try to pick off pylons to supply block him, you want to greatly delay the counter push. Do not engage workers, this might seem counterintuitive, but if he brings workers just dance around his base, you will delay his mining for free! When he pulls workers back to mineral line, re engage any unit and pylons again. Remember, these are sacrificial units, you do not want to keep them, because you WILL get supply blocked if you dont start losing them soon You should have been able to see everything your opponent made in his base during this attack, so no need to overreact to possible dts or voidrays or whatnot. add gates, gas and other production structures as you see fit from now on. I usually go with 2 extra gates and a robo and then adding a stargate later on, bringing me to a total of four gates, plus a robo and a stargate off of 2base3gas. Sorry for the wall of text, but just thought i would give my 2 cents! | ||
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Rubix314
54 Posts
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HvidTiger
Denmark7 Posts
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Hurkyl
304 Posts
On December 14 2010 08:59 CecilSunkure wrote:Honestly, I've never played anyone that's gone with some sort of robo opening. This is because when players see your intial two gateways, they are expecting mass zealots, and they rush to match your gateway count. Once they realize you aren't zealot alling they switch to 4 gate. I can just imagine an early push of 3 zealots and two stalkers destroying a robo build since only one immortal should be able to get out in time, which is a huge investment at this point in the game. I think you underestimate just how tough the micro is going to be for you. One Immortal is better in every way than two Stalkers, except for one less range and slightly slower movement speed. It hurts Zealots just as quickly, and will obliterate the Stalkers if they don't stay out of range. (Okay, that's not quite true -- the Immortal will die one Zealot strike sooner than a pair of Stalkers. But that's compensated for in the fact that the Immortal's DPS isn't cut in half when it's at half health) | ||
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Promises
Netherlands1821 Posts
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On December 29 2010 18:55 Promises wrote: How would this do against the pure-zealot 4/5 gate warp-in? I'm talking about the 10pylon10gate, 50 gass for warpgate and then everything onto minerals-pylon at the enemy ramp build. It gets the warpgate research done at roughly 4.50 or something, which is hella-fast, but in the stages before that it only has 1 zeal going around. I've actually used this build and survived against the Korean 4 Warpgate allin. You use your initial army from your 2 warpgates to kill off proxy pylons. If you can't in time, then what I did was I just added on two more gateways and researched warpgates while microing probes away from the zealots, and microing my army to kill his without taking losses. I actually use my first buildings to form a wall next to my minerals every game, so it was hard for him to get the zealots into my mineral line. I wish I had the replay... People watching my stream saw me defend it ^_^ | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On December 17 2010 12:01 drgonzhere wrote: It would be totally sick if you could work on a liquipedia page for this. The protoss strategy section is starting to look minuscule in comparison to the other races. But this is a sick build that should be accessible to everyone :D Yes sir! http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Adel's_No_Gas_PvP | ||
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Shillen
United States3 Posts
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SaJa
France84 Posts
On December 29 2010 19:20 CecilSunkure wrote: I've actually used this build and survived against the Korean 4 Warpgate allin. You use your initial army from your 2 warpgates to kill off proxy pylons. If you can't in time, then what I did was I just added on two more gateways and researched warpgates while microing probes away from the zealots, and microing my army to kill his without taking losses. I actually use my first buildings to form a wall next to my minerals every game, so it was hard for him to get the zealots into my mineral line. I wish I had the replay... People watching my stream saw me defend it ^_^ So you actually won to a 4 fast warpgate+proxy pylons with only 2 gates + very late 2 more gates and a delayed warp upgrade ?.. Oo; And in anyways, if you can counter it doin' this you'll probably not be ahead, but behind ~~ if you don't use this Bo to fast expand but making 4g it doesn't give you any advantage because you just doin' the same build than your opponent (you just making it in a different and later way) :\ I dunno if this Bo is still good since, in ladder, every single protoss is doin' this shit 4g kor rush (I'll probably ask to Adel himself :\). If you have differents replays where i can see how really counter it with Adel's Bo I'm aware :> @HvidTiger : Don't give a build order without any replays pls ;D | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On December 30 2010 07:16 SaJa wrote: So you actually won to a 4 fast warpgate+proxy pylons with only 2 gates + very late 2 more gates and a delayed warp upgrade ?.. Oo; And in anyways, if you can counter it doin' this you'll probably not be ahead, but behind ~~ if you don't use this Bo to fast expand but making 4g it doesn't give you any advantage because you just doin' the same build than your opponent (you just making it in a different and later way) :\ I dunno if this Bo is still good since, in ladder, every single protoss is doin' this shit 4g kor rush (I'll probably ask to Adel himself :\). If you have differents replays where i can see how really counter it with Adel's Bo I'm aware :> @HvidTiger : Don't give a build order without any replays pls ;D Well you have a lot of probes. I also had really good sim city with my buildings that most players don't use. If you do survive you should definitely be ahead since the allin leaves the enemy protoss with only 18 probes mining. Stalkers help a lot as well. I'm not saying it's easy, but I definitely won and there isn't really anything else for the enemy protoss pulling the k4warp to improve, except laying a pylon within my mineral line -however I would have just targetted it down first. You could also easily go with 2 gate forge and place cannons in your mineral line. If you have 2 stalkers and two cannons, and are chronoing out zealots it's very easy to hold of warpins of 4 zealots. I'm willing to play custom games with anyone that wants to try to k4warp me while I try to use Adel's build, just to provide some replays for people to see. But like I said I'm away from my computer for a couple days, and currently can't. | ||
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SaJa
France84 Posts
Well you have a lot of probes. I also had really good sim city with my buildings that most players don't use. If you do survive you should definitely be ahead since the allin leaves the enemy protoss with only 18 probes mining. Many protoss can make k4warp push without doin' an all-in just making constant probes and fast warp upgrade I guess :\ You could also easily go with 2 gate forge and place cannons in your mineral line. If you have 2 stalkers and two cannons, and are chronoing out zealots it's very easy to hold of warpins of 4 zealots. I'm agree with that, but it doesn't seem to be an Adel's Bo after all :p I'm willing to play custom games with anyone that wants to try to k4warp me while I try to use Adel's build, just to provide some replays for people to see. But like I said I'm away from my computer for a couple days, and currently can't. I really would like to try with you but we aren't in the same server Y_Y | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Adel's_No_Gas_PvP I've also added in a new replay, of me playing on ladder, to the OP: http://www.mediafire.com/?6j5p8tlj6lcq8f4 | ||
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Avanar1
Australia44 Posts
and everytime it has been used against me i have lost good build ty for making the guide. | ||
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SaJa
France84 Posts
I did it here vs 3g robo aswell : http://www.mediafire.com/?lwqgd7bqr979uob Here against a 4g but I was pretty lucky : http://www.mediafire.com/?0yaibtc8n0ikrya | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
My apm was low and game a tiny bit off because it was like my second game after a two week vacation  http://www.mediafire.com/?96m0k3889av17ft | ||
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SaJa
France84 Posts
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
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burninglegionx
Canada22 Posts
standard PvP start: send 9 pyl scout -> kinda necessary to spot cheese and to scout out opponent's base on 4p map 12 gate 14 gas 15 pyl (on 2 player map, if you want more econ, do a 12gate scout or 13gate scout. Late scout = riskier, but you end up with more minerals, so your choice) at this point, the probe scout should've spotted the opponent's build (even on 4p map, the probe will get to the last starting pos by 17 food at the latest). If you see no gas, lots of probes/chrono on nexus (meaning it wasn't a early double gate zealot push), and a 2 gateway, you know this is Adel's build. just drop a 2nd gate instead of core, then make zealots. Keep the probe scout circling in enemy base to see if he's changing build or not and to see when his zealots are moving out. build cyb core around the time he does and get the 2nd gas. Constantly make zealots and stalkers. Adel's build will attack by now. If he attacks, just defend from above your ramp (you have equal army size but you have the defender's advantage), and if he tries to pull back, just chase his army with yours and pick as many units off as possible. He can't fight you at this point because your stalkers took a few free shots when he tried to move up the ramp and the fight is taking place close to your base and you will win the battle with faster reinforcements. If he commits to the fight, you'll win the battle, and then you can just straight up push with a 4-gate follow up. If his army managed to retreat back onto his ramp without suffering a high casualty, just camp his nat and delay the expo from going up. Get robo up and fast colossi it. You have the gas advantage so you can spare the gas to warp in a few sentries if he went 4gates to push you back. Your colossi will come out much faster than his. If Adel's build got the nexus up and has cannons by the time you pushed his army back to the nat, you have the gas advantage with the 14 gas so just do a 3gate colossus push. Your colossus will be out before his 2-base econ can kick in and his colossus will be out much later than yours. | ||
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