EPTWatching the replays and VODs now.
I will try to get a sense of the build order and timings of the early game and post them as well if I get a chance.
[G] Adel's No Gas PvP - Page 3
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy |
|
Khaladas
United States223 Posts
Watching the replays and VODs now. I will try to get a sense of the build order and timings of the early game and post them as well if I get a chance. | ||
|
CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On December 15 2010 04:10 Wayem wrote: So, you'll agree that if you don't intend to attack IMMEDIATELY at the timing, you are at a loss in a few secondes/minute. Hence, this relies on doing HUGE damages with the push. And I mean... HUGE damages. Killing 4/5 probes is sometimes far from being enough and you'll die to a counter attack once you'll be happy in your base, sitting on your expansion with a bunch of stalkers. Oh, and by the way, you look like a fool (no, not with those buns) when you move out and face 3 stalkers. In open area, they can dance (3>2), kill yours and then focus down the zealots. Of course, you prevent that by retreating but loose maybe 1 zealot in the process. And it's basically gg. Well, if you pop into their base before warpgate finishes, they'll most likely be spending chronoboost on their gateways, thus not on their warpgate research -delaying warpgate even further. If you do kill kill four probes that's 200 minerals plus whatever amount those probes were to mine in the future. I'm going to need some more practice with this build in PvP so I can get some replays, but I believe if you delay their warpgate or kill some probes, then back off back to your natural you should have your four warpgates and a cannon building. In the game vs WhiteRa Adel slacked off on his macro and placed his two additional gateways late. Plus, once you have two nexus up you have double the amount of chronoboost, and have a greater income, thus being able to pump out of your four warpgates faster all the while having a cannon, and probes to pull just in case. Try to get some replays of why this build can't work, and I'll try to get better replays of me playing. Since SC2 is so unintuitive (as most RTS games), we'll need to actually go and test out what we're talking about. | ||
|
Wayem
France455 Posts
On December 15 2010 04:22 CecilSunkure wrote: Well, if you pop into their base before warpgate finishes, they'll most likely be spending chronoboost on their gateways, thus not on their warpgate research -delaying warpgate even further. If you do kill kill four probes that's 200 minerals plus whatever amount those probes were to mine in the future. I'm going to need some more practice with this build in PvP so I can get some replays, but I believe if you delay their warpgate or kill some probes, then back off back to your natural you should have your four warpgates and a cannon building. In the game vs WhiteRa Adel slacked off on his macro and placed his two additional gateways late. Plus, once you have two nexus up you have double the amount of chronoboost, and have a greater income, thus being able to pump out of your four warpgates faster all the while having a cannon, and probes to pull just in case. Try to get some replays of why this build can't work, and I'll try to get better replays of me playing. Since SC2 is so unintuitive (as most RTS games), we'll need to actually go and test out what we're talking about. Dude... I see you are full of good intentions there. And, please, go on. I just warn you that you may be... disappointed. I've been using that build for weeks/months now, let's say around your level (2200+ even if I don't ladder but only tournaments/leagues/customs with team mates). Everyone told me my build sucked. That it had a lot of flaws. I didn't listen to them and was so optimistic I wanted to go all the way with it, again and again. But today I full realise how flawed this really is. And I back off, as even the inventor of this build is doing. This said, have fun with it. You'll have amazing games of true macro and positionning, especially against colossi heavy players.  GL ! | ||
|
Hane
France210 Posts
where 4gates > adel's build. He loses all his games vs 4gates :/ With the actual meta game (4gates/3gate blink) this build is 70% auto lose. | ||
|
Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
| ||
|
painprophet
Romania33 Posts
On December 15 2010 04:52 Hane wrote: http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)Adelscott_vs_(P)mouzMaNa_scrap_station_sc2rep_com_20101202/3403 where 4gates > adel's build. He loses all his games vs 4gates :/ With the actual meta game (4gates/3gate blink) this build is 70% auto lose. this replay was posted by the thread creator in the initial post and from the contrary it proves that adel's opening works well. personally I wouldn't use this opening on a map like scrap station. | ||
|
Hane
France210 Posts
Didn't see if someone translate Adel's vod... So i wrote most importants comments with my bad english ^^' + Show Spoiler + 0:44 ~air close pose - he fears whitera's prism strat~ 1:02 This is his farouvite build (2gates) and it's safe vs proxy gate. 1:09 So he knows that he can't harass with the first zealot because of WR's BO with fast stalker+zeal. 1:23 But he know that he can make a good push with a 4z+2s, with a perfect timming. Then he can expo or (oO') 5gates stalkers. *sending 4 z + chrono 2 stalkers.* 1:56 While (before?) his push he makes warp upgrade+nexus push can prevent from 4gate/rush and scout for some proxy.Also, he must care about proxy pylone in base. *speaking about the fight - kill stalker, kill probes => he knows that he is ahead* *adding +3gates* *whitera's push* At this point he knows that he had a better eco, so he wants to "burie the game" with more probes => nexus gold he upgrade 1/0 then 2/0 little push, to 'scout withera's tech (colossus) so he makes council => blink when blink up, push with proxy pylone. | ||
|
Shlowpoke
United States102 Posts
On December 15 2010 04:52 Hane wrote: http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)Adelscott_vs_(P)mouzMaNa_scrap_station_sc2rep_com_20101202/3403 where 4gates > adel's build. He loses all his games vs 4gates :/ With the actual meta game (4gates/3gate blink) this build is 70% auto lose. Adel could have actually won this game. He made a few key errors: 1) He did not attack immediately with his Zealots. Mana was powering really hard and the Zealots would have forced him to make more units or suffer heavy damage, either of which delays the 4 gate. 2) He chrono'd and double-pumped probes after his expansion got up. He already had slightly more income with just a few probes at the expansion. All he had to do was chrono his gateways and spend his money, which he did not. 3) He didn't spend his freaking money. He just had to make a ton of units and delay for another minute or 2 and Mana wouldn't be able to do anything. He could have even pulled probes and still been ahead, probably. | ||
|
Jayrod
1820 Posts
This is a good post, thank you for it, but delaying gas is a playstyle preference for a high micro player so this isn't revolutionary. I expect to see void rays alot PvP next patch so this will have to stand up to that test to prove its viability. | ||
|
EpicLord
United States18 Posts
(Although I do want to main random ultimately) Some more ideas on transitioning would be good too. | ||
|
CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On December 15 2010 05:24 Hane wrote: sry for posting so, but you can find same loses on SoW, Metalo... ^^' Didn't see if someone translate Adel's vod... So i wrote most importants comments with my bad english ^^' + Show Spoiler + 0:44 ~air close pose - he fears whitera's prism strat~ 1:02 This is his farouvite build (2gates) and it's safe vs proxy gate. 1:09 So he knows that he can't harass with the first zealot because of WR's BO with fast stalker+zeal. 1:23 But he know that he can make a good push with a 4z+2s, with a perfect timming. Then he can expo or (oO') 5gates stalkers. *sending 4 z + chrono 2 stalkers.* 1:56 While (before?) his push he makes warp upgrade+nexus push can prevent from 4gate/rush and scout for some proxy.Also, he must care about proxy pylone in base. *speaking about the fight - kill stalker, kill probes => he knows that he is ahead* *adding +3gates* *whitera's push* At this point he knows that he had a better eco, so he wants to "burie the game" with more probes => nexus gold he upgrade 1/0 then 2/0 little push, to 'scout withera's tech (colossus) so he makes council => blink when blink up, push with proxy pylone. Thanks a ton for the translation! I'll add this to the OP, and tidy up the sentences a little. Thanks! I'm still trying to get some really good replays of me playing. I'm a bit busy, but I'll get them soon Edit: Done! Added translation with a couple mistakes corrected! Thanks again Hane! | ||
|
[MLG]GCA
United States90 Posts
I do a quick 2 Zealot, 1 Stalker push, expanding at 28 food and immidiately getting to 4 Gates after the Nexus goes down. Agasint a quick double gas or skipped Zealot, this push usually does enough damage for me to hold the expansion. If I kill about 4-5 Probes, delay mining and kill the initial unit waiting at their ramp, I feel pretty comfortable holding, and from there its my game to lose. Like above posters have said, this style all comes down to the first push doing alot of damage. It's good agasint people that can't figure out whats coming, but it is very easily scouted. | ||
|
MegaPerle
France53 Posts
On December 15 2010 03:57 CecilSunkure wrote: That would be so awesome! Please do it! Ok, I'll do it tonight (france time, in about 3-4h). | ||
|
Parj
France55 Posts
http://www.fileplay.net/channels/glhftv/dreamhack/12060/dreamhack-ro16-adelscott-vs-whitera-game-3?page=1 | ||
|
MegaPerle
France53 Posts
On December 15 2010 23:55 MegaPerle wrote: Ok, I'll do it tonight (france time, in about 3-4h). Hum, reread the first post, seems it's already done | ||
|
Renar
13 Posts
) so i was looking for some kinda of build that could provide me some kind of pressure and "fast" expanding, it seems that this opening could work on some maps but it's just theorycrafting.I will try it, but do someone had tried this against zerg ? | ||
|
Hane
France210 Posts
| ||
|
CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
| ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
I don't think this is a build you would want to run every game but it's certainly a nice build to have stashed away in your arsenal - in particular I find 2gate builds stronger on maps like Steppes and terrible on maps like Shakuras. And there's always the fun zealot/cannon push that you can do, abusing your superior army to get cannons in hahah (replay)Anyway. People are right in saying a conventional 4gate blows this out of the water - so long as they are capable of micro they won't die and then they will be able to quickly overwhelm you with warped in units. Those first 4 zealots need to do some damage for this build to work against that. Similarly, a hard tech build will crush this as well since he will have more Colossus than you earlier than you. So again, first 4 zealots need to do something for the build to work. Fortunately, on the right map this is usually possible (i.e. set one zealot to attack one stalker, 2 zealots per zealot and the rest hunting probes). Definitely a valid build, but just gotta pick the right map and make sure it's somewhat unexpected. | ||
|
PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
| ||
| ||
