EPT[D] *SPOILERS* GSL Discussion of Tank Play - Page 3
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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noD
2230 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On December 08 2010 04:07 captainwaffles wrote: Mech is alright, contrary to popular belief, once you get a critical mass of tanks (supported with Blue hellions and marines) nothing on the ground from- not even immortals- can attack it. The real problem is lack of anti-air. So a gateway army with Immortal/Phenoix support into Voids/Carriers (Carriers, WAY better) late game is pretty deadly against a meching T. I've been practicing with some 2800~ toss players (allej, Time, etc.) and Its not impossible for Mech against Toss, but it goddamn hard if they respond properly by taking a fast third and using stargate units. So it really comes down to when to get starports/marines with upgrades to fight the stargate tech. I'm thinking (very general, haven't practiced this yet) getting 3 facts (1 reactor, 2 techlab) and 2 rax (1 techlab (just for upgrades, the amount of anti-ground you're getting makes marauders irrelevant, 1 reactor) and a reactored starport off two base may be the way to push out, take your third behind the push and then throw down more rax and get ghosts as well as another starport. Weird. I've been slaughtered in 200vs200 battles. Me: 2 thors, mass tanks and some hellions + a raven. He: collossus, immortal, HT, stalker, zealot. He lost 50 supply. | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172190 I'm sure it's something Koreans haven't quite seen yet, and since Jinro is an avid TL browser and advocater...maybe he can use that to his advantage? Wink wink xD | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On December 08 2010 07:17 Dente wrote: Weird. I've been slaughtered in 200vs200 battles. Me: 2 thors, mass tanks and some hellions + a raven. He: collossus, immortal, HT, stalker, zealot. He lost 50 supply. Its all about positioning, Tanks are wastes of space if they can't get at least 3/4 shots off before dying :-\ On December 08 2010 07:12 FabledIntegral wrote: New patch - Siege tanks deal +15 vs massive! I'm going to quote this when it comes true. | ||
bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
On December 08 2010 07:34 Synystyr wrote: All Jinro really needs is some 4 Port Banshee action :D http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=172190 I'm sure it's something Koreans haven't quite seen yet, and since Jinro is an avid TL browser and advocater...maybe he can use that to his advantage? Wink wink xD Shameless plug of BO haha. But i agree - something different would help him a long way; MC probably knows him inside and out.. I think tanks are to much of a risky investment vP due to immobility and the resilience of zealots/immortals; this isn't to say mech in general is a no-no and even some tanks in the back to provide some extra DPS isn't a bad idea - but they cost a shitload of gas. I would be worried if he went tank heavy EDIT: if he could pull some crazy Thor/banshee/viking build that pain.user beat Nony with at MLG it would be pretty damn sweet | ||
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Synystyr
United States1446 Posts
On December 08 2010 07:40 bkrow wrote: Shameless plug of BO haha. But i agree - something different would help him a long way; MC probably knows him inside and out.. I think tanks are to much of a risky investment vP due to immobility and the resilience of zealots/immortals; this isn't to say mech in general is a no-no and even some tanks in the back to provide some extra DPS isn't a bad idea - but they cost a shitload of gas. I would be worried if he went tank heavy EDIT: if he could pull some crazy Thor/banshee/viking build that pain.user beat Nony with at MLG it would be pretty damn sweet Extremely shameless  Nothing would give me a bigger hard-on than seeing Jinro use my build successfully He'd execute it better anyways with superior harass and macro Pleeeeease? :D | ||
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positron.
634 Posts
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Jombozeus
China1014 Posts
It may cause an overcommitment towards stargate play, which will cut down on collosus and/or HT teching. If the T can hold until mid/late game before the collo/HT tech comes, there may be a timing. This may be hard, however, due to phoenix and void rays play locking Terran from expanding to get the necessary income. What is the viability of: Opening tank to force stargate play, then preemptively transitioning to 3x reactor rax? If the protoss went immortal -> collosus instead, mass marines will hold off immortals while a swapon 2x reactor viking will deal with the collosus? The idea is that it may favor P, but it forces an aggressive gateway toss to play out of his comfort zone. | ||
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Nadagast
United States245 Posts
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Srule
Canada181 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On December 08 2010 11:28 Srule wrote: If going mech what about thors instead of tanks? Add like 3 or 4 thors into your MMM ball and CC some colossus , brake forcefields, and tank dmg. You forget the part where everything dies to Carriers and Storm. | ||
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pirates
United States701 Posts
Jinro needs to utilize the mobility and harass potential of the Terran force a BIT more to be able to consistently take games off MC. In a lot of these PvT games, the Protoss is the one who controls the pace of the game and when the battles are fought. I don't feel like this SHOULD be the case. I feel like the Siege-Tank positioning near expos and constant banshee/drop harass would be more effective vs MC in longer games. Who knows what we will see, though. Maybe MC will opt for fairly early rushes, Warpgate timing attacks or fast Stargate + high ground warp ins and not let Jinro establish control. I love watching Jinro win but MC is very solid and Jinro said himself he CURRENTLY is not confidant beating him. Maybe he will practice something new or cheese him, hehe. I am looking forward to this series, no doubt. | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
Blue Flame Hellions are really nasty... | ||
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tournamentnow
Australia111 Posts
really terran needs to be able to fight and crush protoss in build order win, but that's not possible atm due to imba. there's a massive 10 % win advantage protoss have right now over terran. | ||
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Jombozeus
China1014 Posts
On December 08 2010 18:56 tournamentnow wrote: harassing with hellions is difficult, any strategy relying on your opponent to have slow reaction times is just... not solid as artosis says. really terran needs to be able to fight and crush protoss in build order win, but that's not possible atm due to imba. there's a massive 10 % win advantage protoss have right now over terran. Really, you're gonna go there? However it is possible to induce slow reaction times by multipronged dropping. Dropping requires much less micro than the defender, the tradeoff is the possibility you lose the medivac. We have seen STC pretty much destroy every, well, everything, with mass drops. Probably unrealistic in 2 days for Jinro, but I think it may be where TvP may be heading. Mech is for a better turtling so you can drop without just being counterattacked and ran over regardless of drops. Or, you can just be like STC and go pure MMM and beat every race with superior-everythingness. | ||
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Rammstorm
Germany1434 Posts
[QUOTE]On December 08 2010 18:56 tournamentnow wrote: Mech is for a better turtling so you can drop without just being counterattacked and ran over regardless of drops. Or, you can just be like STC and go pure MMM and beat every race with superior-everythingness.[/QUOTE] True but reaaaally hard to achieve in say few days. Terran can't win vs Maxed out Toss army with proper combo-> need to harras pretty much like zergs have to do vs terran. Multi-pronged attack requires A LOT of APM and awareness, something Jinro have shown to be lacking in his games. All his drops denied or just badly timed/executed). | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
On December 08 2010 07:12 FabledIntegral wrote: New patch - Siege tanks deal +15 vs massive! Still won't be good enough for how immobile they are. If anything that's just going to make ultras worse TvZ and nothing else. Viking/Banshee still the premier choice vs Colo. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
I wonder if adding bfhelions could be good for that, and use ghost to emp the zealots, they are the biggest threat imo. | ||
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