EPTQuestion: how difficult do you find mid-game, late-game TvZ is when using 4OC compared to other Terran builds?
[G] TvZ Griffith's 4OC Pressure Push - Page 33
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Griffith`
714 Posts
Question: how difficult do you find mid-game, late-game TvZ is when using 4OC compared to other Terran builds? | ||
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Conrose
437 Posts
On January 14 2011 06:00 Griffith` wrote: Finally getting my computer back this weekend so I can run some more tests and get some more replays in. Question: how difficult do you find mid-game, late-game TvZ is when using 4OC compared to other Terran builds? If you are in the lower leagues because of macro or micro issues (60 APM or lower), this build is not very usable outside of 3v3 and 4v4 matches. As a transition rather than an opening build, I've found it useful, especially if I snipe a Zerg player's 3rd and 4th while I grab 2 more bases for gas where I can actually transition into Endless Thors off 3 Facts at which point I usually start an A-Move roflstomping after the first 9 are finished. Granted these first 9 have Marine support, but as the Marines die out and more Thors join them (Via Dropships I managed to keep alive), it becomes near unstoppable as you reach 20 Thors. LOADS of fun in 3v3 on maps where you can get away with it (Typhon in particular is a stand out example since it's such a macro oriented team map since the opponent attempting the back door usually results in the game pushing past the 7-9 minute vulnerability while initial pushes against the front door prior to 10 minutes usually results in them losing much of their army. Your mass Marines hard counter even a multiple mass air play. I've expanded to as much as 5 Base Gas on this map without trouble). I don't play much 4v4 since it pushes my computer to its limitations but I imagine it's even more fun on shared base 4v4 Maps. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
Gotta say, Tal'Darim Altar is a pretty awesome map for 4OC + PFs [url blocked] | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
Not sure what it the best anti-Zerg strategy though. Marine/SCV all in works great vs mid-Diamond and lower but not against better Zerg players. | ||
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TheRealDJ
United States124 Posts
Edit: lol and once again IMMvp vs oGsHyperdub, mass expands with OC, reducing the number of SCVs he uses, allowing him to constantly putting pressure with pure bio, wiping out a 3 base terran. | ||
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Crankenstein
Australia150 Posts
If you are in the lower leagues because of macro or micro issues (60 APM or lower), this build is not very usable outside of 3v3 and 4v4 matches. Disagree completely. I started using this build when I was in Bronze and snapped many-a-neck with it. Question: how difficult do you find mid-game, late-game TvZ is when using 4OC compared to other Terran builds? mid-game and late-game aren't the problem for me. Early game is. I struggle against 7RR and Baneling Bursts when using this build because I feel that getting 4OC's leaves me somewhat vulnerable early on in the game, particularly if the zerg is 1 basing. For this reason I have been only getting 3 CC's before getting gas + factories rather than 4 and I feel a lot safer that way having siege tech much faster. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
Mid Masters: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/130877-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns (3OC into SK Terran) Adding in some more replays | ||
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Meborg
Netherlands50 Posts
Tried it out quite a lot of variations with this build, but if you decide to open with 2rax, you have to commit to your agression. The gas before 3rd OC is to get stim out earlier and transition into upgrades + medivacs or/and siege tanks a little sooner if you're facing off against roaches or other stuff. The way I see this build is to just do marine pressure / bunker rush, and force out a lot of units. Once you're able to keep pressuring the zerg, you semi-retreat to your base to get bunkers @ your expand, and expansion running. Once this is the case, you will want to pressure again to finalize your economic advantage. Once your 3rd OC is up, you should be able to start working towards your 3rd base as a planetary fortress, while getting as much tech as you can. And by the way, I have tried the strike cannon thor drops :D They work awesome, but you should do multiple pronged harrass while doing it. It's best if the zerg sends all his bullshit gruond to deal with 3 hellions or something, and he misses the thor drop. If the thors manage to shoot before the zerg army is there, the zerg will be hard pressed to handle the thors with just mutalisks or backup units. The only critique on the thor drop is that once the zerg has enough air forces, its very hard to get through to his base. Dropping thors to save medivacs is very inefficient and very dangerous to your units, but if you manage to macro on par with the zerg, an unexpected thor drop wreaks havoc to the zergs mind. The few times the thor drops won me the game it wasnt because I killed a lair and a hatchery. The thordrops won me the game because the zerg tilted into full agression mode which left him very weakened :D | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
On January 27 2011 04:52 Griffith` wrote: High Diamond: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/130825-1v1-terran-zerg-delta-quadrant (3OC into Raven Tank) Mid Masters: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/130877-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns (3OC into SK Terran) Adding in some more replays More SK Terran, w00t :D Looking forward to these. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
The reactor factory is the biggest mineral sink Terran has and one of the faster things you can get up and running. Hellions also benefit greatly from the reduced creep spread from Ravens. They don't get taken out by speedlings and take advantage of bases that aren't creep linked. This can make sure Zerg can't ninja an expo. They kill lings and in large numbers counter nearly every zerg ground unit not an ultralisk due to massive splash overlap. | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
I'm having good success if I 2 rax FE before I put down 3rd rax, put 3rd OC in base to over sat 2 bases, and easily macro out a marine tank push that can at least attempt to draw mutas back. However, not playing too much 2 rax anymore, I'm wondering how to mix in a 3rd OC for creep scans/mules doing a 1-1 FE into 3-1-1 build... | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
Viking to clear some OLs to make drop less noticeable, run in snipe queen and any drones pick and run. Been workin half way decently, as drop hits before muta comes. I open with the 5 marine 1 hellion poke | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
What do you think about trying to get the 2nd CC by delaying the barracks and possibly cutting one barracks until after the port and relying on 2 rax with some sort of siege support instead? I think the general strategy for integrating extra OCs where bio is involved is to delay/reorder barracks so instead of having some early, you get the extra CCs. This boosts your income so you can put down more Rax a little later to achieve the same unit count sometime down the road. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
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Tailss
Sweden233 Posts
Im not at a very high level though, 2.6k diamond. What I usually do is, I put 2 more rax and 2 factories up after ive taken my 2 gas, its around approximately 40 food id guess. I put down 2 bunkers at my natural, and just pumping marines, marauders and siege tanks. When my third tank is finished, the opponent is trying to take a third, and most times i can quite easily just simply kill it. Then im adding more rax and factories and also getting some thors, hellions or other stuff, depending on what my opponent does. But after i successfully denied his third its really just a matter of time, I can easily contain him with my tanks and slow push him until a gg pops up and i can eventually claim the victory. | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/133049-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/133047-2v2-terran-zerg-metalopolis http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/133046-1v1-terran-zerg-xelnaga-caverns I am starting to think that 3OC may in fact be the sweetest spot. | ||
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education
Canada3 Posts
As a zerg, I have several notes on what zergs can do and what T needs to watch out for. I would say the most effective playstyle zerg should adopt is a mix of sling/bling with massive creep spread into overlord drops with baneling bombs/slings/ultras I believe I am on the losing side of several of the replays posted but on hindsight, I still don't think I played calmly. Speed roaches are also quite effective and less headachy on the micro side if you like a-moving | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
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Mali__Slon
Senegal163 Posts
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