ZvP Phoenix into double robo on Scrap

smwatkin

Canada399 Posts

November 29 2010 23:25 GMT

Am I the only one who cringes when I get this matchup? It seems at the level I'm at (1600 diamond NA) all the protoss like to go 6 phoenix into double robo bay and pound out immortal, stalker, colossus and a couple of zlots. I've watched this replay a few times and I can't put my finger on where I'm going wrong, but this destroys me every time. Here's what I'm thinking

1. Pound out hydras faster?
2. Go corruptor faster?
3. Is this just a problem where I'm leaving my OL's too scattered and forgetting about them?
4. I think I blindly went roaches in this game for too long

Either way, can anybody provide some insight?

Thanks Gents,

-NuVo
ZvP NuVo vs chy

ryc

Canada29 Posts

November 29 2010 23:29 GMT

Just go fucking kill him.

(before he has robos. scout dilgently)

snazbaz

40 Posts

November 29 2010 23:42 GMT

I think infestors would have really helped you in this game but you didn't make any at all.

Alzadar

Canada5009 Posts

November 29 2010 23:46 GMT

If you're certain of the Robo transition then pumping out Corruptors seems like a good choice, they dominate Phoenix and will obviously help with Colossus.

orotoss

United States298 Posts

November 29 2010 23:51 GMT

On this map you can easily get away with sticking to air units almost all game. While you wait for your spire, just mass spine crawlers outside your main/nat. Throw a hydra den with your spire so he thinks he is forcing you to go ground, and then just pump muta/corruptor. The bases are pretty easy to dual harass with groups of mutas and then just try to rush for broodlords. Seriously, they do amazing with all the cliffs and edges. The third is really hard to hold so you might even consider staying on 2 base until the broodlords come out. As long as you keep your broodlords out of range of his stalkers, the main will be easy to take out. And corruptors absolutely wreck phoenixes. Back at your base you will have a nice spine crawler wall and a ton of speedlings (mineral dump) for defense.

Talin

Montenegro10532 Posts

November 30 2010 01:05 GMT

On November 30 2010 08:25 smwatkin wrote:
Am I the only one who cringes when I get this matchup? It seems at the level I'm at (1600 diamond NA) all the protoss like to go 6 phoenix into double robo bay and pound out immortal, stalker, colossus and a couple of zlots. I've watched this replay a few times and I can't put my finger on where I'm going wrong, but this destroys me every time. Here's what I'm thinking

1. Pound out hydras faster?
2. Go corruptor faster?
3. Is this just a problem where I'm leaving my OL's too scattered and forgetting about them?
4. I think I blindly went roaches in this game for too long

Either way, can anybody provide some insight?

Thanks Gents,

-NuVo
ZvP NuVo vs chy

As a Protoss who uses 4 to 7 Phoenix openers a lot, there are three things that I fear the most - Queens, Creep spread and my own concentration / multitasking not being up to the task.

You had a healthy amount of Queens, your positioning of Queens and Overlords and anticipation of Phoenix movement wasn't always the best but it was fine. But mostly everything else you did wasn't really necessary - 2 Spine Crawlers were definitely unnecessary with the kind of opener he went for, and even the Roach count was a bit high imo. And while 2 Spore Crawlers were reasonable on Scrap, 4 really weren't.

Also Creep spread needs to skyrocket in these ZvP scenarios. You already have a lot of Queens which automatically gives you faster creep spreading - Creep gives you intel on Phoenix movement, option of using the extra Queens offensively, and makes your Hydras actually useful and worth their cost if you decide to go for them.

Finally, the general problem was that 6 Phoenix kept you on 2 bases with all the extra defenses you made. You were actually behind on worker count / economy for most of the game, even significantly so when you chose to attack, and you pushed far too late to exploit the weaknesses of his build.

Tl;dr, there are two things you can do after Phoenix openers -
1) Get minimal sufficient defense and power your economy through the Phoenix harassment, and you'll soon end up with a massive advantage.
2) Go for a strong mid-game push, usually Roach-based, and hit the timing while he's still weak from teching/expanding.

I lose more to #2 than I do to #1, probably because there aren't so many good macro Zergs on the ladder though.

Allred

United States352 Posts

November 30 2010 01:23 GMT

i like to often open with a stargate and transition into robo and usually the zerg player does not know how to counter it, but there is a timing window for the zerg to attack right before my first collosi/range is completed.

HardCorey

United States709 Posts

November 30 2010 02:00 GMT

Hi Nuvo, I'm HardCorey and ive just started trying to do a video series of answering questions on various threads that provide replays. I took a look at your replay and I just uploaded the video. I only read the first post but it looks like some of things I bring up were discussed a bit.

http://www.hardcorey.blip.tv/file/4446385/

My Main Thread

Hope this helps,
-HardCorey

smwatkin

Canada399 Posts

November 30 2010 02:21 GMT

On November 30 2010 11:00 HardCorey wrote:
Hi Nuvo, I'm HardCorey and ive just started trying to do a video series of answering questions on various threads that provide replays. I took a look at your replay and I just uploaded the video. I only read the first post but it looks like some of things I bring up were discussed a bit.

http://www.hardcorey.blip.tv/file/4446385/

Hope this helps,
-HardCorey

Thanks a lot man that's great! I've never had anybody analyze my replay. It's buffering right now but I'll take a look and PM you.

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ZvP Phoenix into double robo on Scrap

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