• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:31
CET 13:31
KST 21:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
[D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Rollback Netcode in Brood War SC4ALL II Brood War Complete Invited Player Lineup
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [$1250] International ShieldBattery League KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Deus Ex 3!? Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 19682 users

[G] The Art Of ZvP 2 - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Kaz_Coaching
Profile Joined October 2010
United States83 Posts
November 19 2010 07:38 GMT
#41
Thank you for the guide. I've been having some problems vs Protoss lately, I'm sure this will help.

Your timing information was very helpful, I've never known the protoss timing for things, I just go by feel.
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-19 07:54:26
November 19 2010 07:54 GMT
#42
I am wondering what about going just mass roaches instead roach/hydra?

I know the dps will be lower but you can poke into his 3rd fast, snipe nexus or make fast run by. Also you can trade roaches a lot cause they are cheap and have low build time.

If you have hydras in your army they pretty much just sit or attack, you pretty much can't harass with them.

If he goes mass immortal you can mass mutas cause you should have plenty of gas if you didn't get T3 already.

Anyways excellent guide
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
Sholoshka
Profile Joined October 2010
United States60 Posts
November 19 2010 07:56 GMT
#43
My ZvP is absolutely terrible. I'm definitely going to study up with this guys. I appreciate all of the effort you put towards putting this together.
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
November 19 2010 09:18 GMT
#44
Wow, what an epic PvZ/ZvP-coverage lately - this is what guides must look like, everybody who wants to put a [G] into the title, better take a closer look at these two threads.
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
Sikozu
Profile Joined April 2010
Belgium10 Posts
November 19 2010 09:48 GMT
#45
Absolutely brilliant, thanks for the guide!
Legat0
Profile Joined October 2010
United States318 Posts
November 19 2010 10:34 GMT
#46
Wow thanks for the amazing guide!
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
November 19 2010 10:41 GMT
#47
On November 19 2010 10:13 ChickenLips wrote:
This is a great guide and I would totally give you a blowjob, should you decide to write one on ZvZ since pretty much everyone is clueless on that matchup.

However i don't agree with the speedling opener. It is only favorable on small maps. On big maps I can easily go 13 pool 16 hatch or 14 hatch 14 pool, 2 of the most economic builds that offer solid early defense if i scout early agression. With an early hatch like that i can drone until 30 off of 4 lings and then decide if i want to make units against a 4 gate. A good 4 gate hits at a time where the speedling opener's hatch is too weak for my taste. Since you invest in tech and units so early on the period of time where you can drone until the 1 base all in hits is significantly shorter than if you went for a economical build. Those extra few drones you can afford with f.e. a 14 hatch 14 pool are detrimental to be able to enter mid game with a solid drone count.


To deal with early stalker harass when you skip speedling openers do you just put down a sunk?
goldenwitch
Profile Joined August 2010
United States338 Posts
November 19 2010 10:48 GMT
#48
Very well posted, although I disagree with you on many points of the matchup. However that is to be expected since I'm playing from the toss perspective, and you from the zerg.
Yossy
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia6 Posts
November 19 2010 13:49 GMT
#49
great guide!
I'll be back!
Yossy
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia6 Posts
November 19 2010 13:51 GMT
#50
great guide!
I'll be back!
mskaa
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark155 Posts
November 19 2010 13:56 GMT
#51
on behalf of all protoss, shame on you!!

its a very nice guide though
ChickenLips
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2912 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-19 14:00:01
November 19 2010 13:58 GMT
#52
On November 19 2010 19:41 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2010 10:13 ChickenLips wrote:
This is a great guide and I would totally give you a blowjob, should you decide to write one on ZvZ since pretty much everyone is clueless on that matchup.

However i don't agree with the speedling opener. It is only favorable on small maps. On big maps I can easily go 13 pool 16 hatch or 14 hatch 14 pool, 2 of the most economic builds that offer solid early defense if i scout early agression. With an early hatch like that i can drone until 30 off of 4 lings and then decide if i want to make units against a 4 gate. A good 4 gate hits at a time where the speedling opener's hatch is too weak for my taste. Since you invest in tech and units so early on the period of time where you can drone until the 1 base all in hits is significantly shorter than if you went for a economical build. Those extra few drones you can afford with f.e. a 14 hatch 14 pool are detrimental to be able to enter mid game with a solid drone count.


To deal with early stalker harass when you skip speedling openers do you just put down a sunk?


Depending on when I scout the early aggression and how far the creep spread at my natural hatch is (hatch or pool first) I immediately put down a spine crawler while delaying my 2nd queen and then if it was planted in my main walk it down when the creep is ready. This is also more favorable if he just chronoes his first zealot + 2 stalkers at you since the zealot + probe will start attacking your morphing spine if it is in the natural.

With these early pressure builds it's just delaying them with spines and queens until you can get enough lings to chase them away (or kill them if they're stupid) while not forgetting to macro. DO NOT LOSE LINGS OR DRONES. Those are essential. Making too many lings is also equal to losing them since they will be worthless (Counter attacking this early doesnt work unless you go all in with it)
❤Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿
Shootex
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1 Post
November 19 2010 14:11 GMT
#53
tyvm for that awesome guide!

that helps my ZvP alot

JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
November 19 2010 14:30 GMT
#54
Very nice guide. There are some great tricks in there for zerg and some timings as protoss which I can consider and use now. Thanks for the work.
BlueChipKiwi
Profile Joined July 2010
United States46 Posts
November 19 2010 14:30 GMT
#55
Awesome guide. People might not be saying it explcitly, but I think the flow chart is the key bit of goodness here. The flow chart is a great way to visualize the strategic path. I think every guide is going to look incomplete without a flow chart from now on
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
November 19 2010 15:01 GMT
#56
This is amazing, thanks for the big effort that was obviously put in this!
Kokos
Profile Joined February 2010
15 Posts
November 19 2010 15:02 GMT
#57
Cheers, my ZvP is definitely the weakest atm and as an 1800 rating zerg this still helped me
Competent
Profile Joined April 2010
United States406 Posts
November 19 2010 15:12 GMT
#58
Very nice guide, I will definately bookmark this.
Nurrrhhh, I'm gonna be A+ by Wendsday! -Day[9] "I'm going to spread out my lings so it looks like there is more. Lots of animals do that." -CatZ
SONofaGUN
Profile Joined August 2010
20 Posts
November 19 2010 15:17 GMT
#59
I jizzed when i saw the flowchart. FLOWCHARTS FTW!!!!!!!!!

and i need new pants... and the rest of the guide was great. Awesome timing info
ShadowWolf
Profile Joined March 2010
United States197 Posts
November 19 2010 16:05 GMT
#60
I don't know that I agree gas/pool is really a great opener for this, but the guide itself is awesome If anything, people being successful at a reasonably high level demonstrates that the opener is probably not as big a deal right now.

Do you ever choose to go with Muta/Ling routes in situations where you're not facing Blink Stalkers?
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 22h 30m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EnDerr 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34344
Calm 5200
Rain 2219
Shuttle 1321
Horang2 1194
Bisu 751
BeSt 455
Mini 402
firebathero 355
Rush 337
[ Show more ]
Stork 269
Soulkey 221
ZerO 164
Mong 141
Snow 139
hero 107
Soma 91
Hyun 80
Barracks 73
Pusan 73
Sea.KH 59
Shinee 52
Zeus 50
Sharp 45
Noble 40
Killer 31
Shine 29
Aegong 27
soO 25
Yoon 24
Terrorterran 23
Hm[arnc] 22
Movie 21
sorry 19
JYJ 16
HiyA 16
Sacsri 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 7
League of Legends
Reynor115
Counter-Strike
fl0m4035
olofmeister751
jkaem91
edward46
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes260
Other Games
B2W.Neo867
Lowko413
syndereN226
DeMusliM219
Fuzer 206
NeuroSwarm74
QueenE53
ArmadaUGS24
Railgan19
ZerO(Twitch)11
Chillindude5
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 872
Other Games
ComeBackTV 225
Counter-Strike
PGL102
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3012
• WagamamaTV481
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
22h 30m
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
IPSL
1d 4h
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
AI Arena Tournament
1d 6h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 22h
IPSL
2 days
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-05
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.