EPT[G] The Art Of ZvP 2 - Page 5
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sick_transit
United States195 Posts
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nesf
Ireland20 Posts
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Slurgi
United States117 Posts
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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Slurgi
United States117 Posts
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
 One thing i noticed immidiately though: in your 2-3 gate -> Expand branch, against the 6 gate low econ push i think it is definitely better to get burrow immidiately once lair is done, and then get roach speed next, skipping the +1 ranged attack completly, as this will probably not get done before the push arrives at your natural. Also, burrow is very good for saving your roaches if they get split by forcefields - and this kind of push has alot of forcefields, because the P usually expand and gets like 7-8 sentries which will have almost all full energy when he pushes out. I will read the whole guide tomorrow and maybe ill find some more things with which i can help, but on the first glance most of it seems very solid. edit: One thing im missing on the second look is any kind of muta/ling play. going purely roach hydra every game does get absolutely stomped by collossi pushes :/ | ||
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ChickenLips
2912 Posts
On November 21 2010 08:22 kcdc wrote: As a P player, I don't see the purpose of hydras in the hydra-roach composition. The only units that can give realistically give a pure roach force trouble are void rays, immortals, and a critical mass of collosi. Against any of those units, you'd be better off with mutas (+queens if voids) than hydras. When I see hydra-roach, I think, "Phew, he's making hydras. If I can just get collosi or storm, I can win with a much smaller army." I know hydras have great DPS, but they kill your mobility and make you incredibly vulnerable if P has the right composition. Pure roach with a threat of mutas is far scarier. Hm. I actually had to think about that post for a minute before formulating my response, something that doesn't happen too often as there's unfortunately mostly idiots wandering these forums. As a Z player, I love Mutas. I love their mobility and that they can move anywhere and shoot anything. However since Blizzard didn't want to make Z win 100% of their games they gave it absolutely shitty DPS for their 100 gas cost. Which is ok from a balance standpoint but seeing mutas actually fight other GtA units makes me cringe every single timesince it's always a highly cost-inefficient battle for the Z. I think that a stalker/sentry/immortal composition has absolutely no trouble against pure roach and even less against roach/muta since the muta production cuts heavily into much-needed upgrades (2/2 roaches are actually good lol) and further tech. For mutas to actually do something in battle you need critical mass, which is around 16 mutas. No way in hell a Z is gonna be able to get out 16 mutas + roaches to defend constant pressure. It might be possible on 6-8 geysers but on 4 it strikes me as incredibly weak and flimsy. One game comes to mind where Z wanted to go Roach Muta which was NexGenius vs NesTea. You can see NesTea putting down a spire (not wanting to counter colossus) but then due to immense gateway pressure from Genius he decides to opt for pure roach instead since mutas don't fare too well in low numbers. | ||
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hellblau
Germany13 Posts
(your usage of "ain't" annoyed me a little bit though) | ||
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kinkosky
United States73 Posts
edit i guess the answer is macro up and just rebuild army after stomrs? | ||
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MorsCerta
United States234 Posts
On November 21 2010 13:36 kinkosky wrote: great post. im wondering how should i transition when i scout high temp tech at around 10 minutes? still go roach hydra or tech to t3?? Muta to snipe works well. Or just go super roach heavy + burrow, they tank storm pretty well. At least this is what I like to do. | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
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DaemonX
545 Posts
All your builds badly die to this, and you haven't provided a good discussion or answer to this very common opening. | ||
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rockslave
Brazil318 Posts
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OrcaMOrciM
4 Posts
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Exawn
Netherlands13 Posts
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ZerG~LegenD
Sweden1179 Posts
On November 21 2010 15:24 DaemonX wrote: Um, seems nice, but I immediately checked for the most obvious response timing and it wasn't there - that is 4WG rush all-in, attacking before 6 mins (warp finishing ~5:25 - 5:40). All your builds badly die to this, and you haven't provided a good discussion or answer to this very common opening. That's a typo actually, thanks for catching it. The Hallucination timing was also way off. | ||
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Fistdantilus
United States136 Posts
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
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MobiusOne
United States106 Posts
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
On November 22 2010 00:46 MobiusOne wrote: I would absolutely love it if you included some info on how to handle 2 gates effectively! you mean 2 gate opening with delayed cyber? as soon as u scout those going down start your own roach warren. when the zealots arrive your roaches will be seconds away from popping. 2 gate is ridiculously awful if scouted. i like to research ling speed and attack with my roaches i build for defense and rallied slings after driving him away. | ||
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