• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:05
CET 10:05
KST 18:05
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Tenacious Turtle Tussle StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night
Brood War
General
[BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest Foreign Brood War Let's talk about Metropolis BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1192 users

[G] The Art Of ZvP 2 - Page 8

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 Next All
PaPoolee
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Netherlands660 Posts
December 28 2010 11:01 GMT
#141
Amazing job on the guide mate, I'm sure you spent a lot of time on it and i appreciate that! coming from a Protoss player! thanks!.
RoarMan
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada745 Posts
December 28 2010 12:11 GMT
#142
Seriously thanks for this, this is what we need, more elaborate and comprehensive guides to match ups, this is the stuff we're missing from BW :D.
All the pros got dat Ichie.
Froob
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom342 Posts
December 28 2010 13:35 GMT
#143
thanks

protoss are still the bane of my existance however
イア
Communism
Profile Joined November 2010
United States176 Posts
December 28 2010 13:49 GMT
#144
Hey great guide, thanks for spending the time to put all of this information out there. I was wondering about one thing though, I recently have been watching Machine's coaching lessons on ZvP vs 4-6 gate and I was wondering why you dont have anything on the guide about speed/burrow roaches. They absolutely dominate gateway units without robo, although they might be a little late for the 4 gate, but I've seen a lot of P doing FE into 6 gate. What do you think about all of that?
ProtossGirl
Profile Joined December 2010
England123 Posts
December 28 2010 16:17 GMT
#145
This is the amazing thing about Zerg players, although they have uch a reputation for whining and moaning due to the emotional investment in every game they play... The Zerg community comes together and does this sort of thing. Its so nice to see .

Keep it up, one per match-up :D.. This sort of thing + the Lessons on MrBitters Stream can do an awful lot of good for a lot of people.

Great post.

Fucking fantastic :D
Phwar Gate
ChickenLips
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2912 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-28 16:49:19
December 28 2010 16:48 GMT
#146
On December 29 2010 01:17 ProtossGirl wrote:
This is the amazing thing about Zerg players, although they have uch a reputation for whining and moaning due to the emotional investment in every game they play... The Zerg community comes together and does this sort of thing. Its so nice to see .

Keep it up, one per match-up :D.. This sort of thing + the Lessons on MrBitters Stream can do an awful lot of good for a lot of people.

Great post.

Fucking fantastic :D


Well if you get raped in the ass pretty much 24/7 you gotta stick together.

+ Show Spoiler +
It's a fantasic guide though, I agree.
❤Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿
decaf
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria1797 Posts
December 29 2010 22:13 GMT
#147
Most Protoss tech buildings are started around 4:30, sacrifice an Overlord at 4:45

This is the most awesome part about this whole thread.
This is why I win way more ZvPs than I did before.
Zeon0
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria2995 Posts
December 31 2010 13:46 GMT
#148
do you scout before your lings? i just had a game where my 13 drone scouted a 2gate in close positions at metalopolis and i dont think i could hold it off if i didnt scout it.
Hater of MKP since GSL Open Season 2 | Fanboy of: NesTea Stephano IdrA DIMAGA MorroW ret DongRaeGu Snute SaSe Mvp ThorZaIN DeMusliM
iamke55
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States2806 Posts
January 01 2011 07:46 GMT
#149
On December 22 2010 23:00 ZerG~LegenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2010 01:54 nariga wrote:
Do you have any thoughts on this "unbeatable Speedray PvZ?" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174903

The first thing you need to do is notice that he is doing the build. When combining an expansion with Stargate tech they will have less units that normally and thus you won't really be able to do much pushing (which allows you to Drone and tech hard), they will also be more inclined to get Cannons and perhaps most importantly they will get their Assimilators much earlier in their natural.

With a normal Warpgate/Robo based build they normally delay their Assimilators for a while. I don't know exactly when you normally take them but I don't think it's before 10 minutes, on the other hand the Void Ray/Colossi build requires you to take them right of the bat when the Nexus completes. So sacrifice Zerglings into his natural to keep tabs on his army count and his Assimilator timing do learn that he's up to some tech heavy build.

Now, when you know he's going to be teching rather than pushing, get a Spire right away and also try to scout what tech he's getting with an Overseer. If it's Stargate, get +1 Air Attack and an Infestation Pit and Mutalisks and expand as much as you possibly can. Get ~2 Infestors, if he goes out to harass you'll Fungal his army and smash it. When you have Infestors he pretty much cannot leave his base with an air based army so he will turtle and throw everything on one limit fight.

Here's some pointers for winning the last battle:
  • Get dual Spires as soon as possible and upgrade both Air Attack and Air Armor.
  • Remove all Observers from your army and try to keep your Mutalisk/Corruptor ratio hidden while sacrificing Mutalisks or Overlords or Zerglings to find out his Phoenix/Void Ray ratio.
  • Suicide all ground units to free up supply.
  • Build a lot of Spore Crawlers in locations you cannot afford to lose, like your main and expansions with a lot of Minerals/Gas remainin.
  • Use the "Extractor Trick" with Spine Crawlers to go beyond the 200 supply limit without sacrificing your Drones.
  • Try to separate his army into two halves with Fungal Growth and fight them one at a time.
  • Use Corruption.
  • If he uses Vortex, run your whole army into it so that he won't get to fight one half at a time.
  • Get an extra hidden Spire somewhere on the map so you can keep making units even if he wins the first battle and snipes your initial Spires.


Here's a replay against ZeeRaX, he's a 3.1k Diamond Protoss from an S-class division and has been using that playstyle since September, at least, and I think he's the original inventor of the playstyle. So he should be pretty good with it.

Some notes though, I upgraded my ground units too so that I would be able to remake a Hydralisk army should I lose my air one. I don't think that is necessary though and will probably only slow you down. Also, I think high level Protosses are blind countering the Roach opening too heavily nowadays so I've started opening Muta/Ling on all maps which means I was prepared for this tech path right from the start.


Hey, thanks for making this post. It's pretty cool that you found a way to beat my strat, so I'll make sure to update my guide to say that sniping any upgrading spires is essential.
During practice session, I discovered very good build against zerg. -Bisu[Shield]
ChiknAdobo
Profile Joined November 2010
United States208 Posts
January 05 2011 19:57 GMT
#150
Very nice thanks! I really like the flow chart.
ZERg
JeanLuc
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada377 Posts
January 05 2011 20:18 GMT
#151
gotta say, I love that flow chart
If you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth-- you don't deserve to wear that uniform
reservegud
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway13 Posts
January 05 2011 20:25 GMT
#152
nice!
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraawwwrrrrr
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
January 06 2011 01:31 GMT
#153
This is bloody brilliant! Been having a lot of trouble with this mu lately, lots of good info to help me stay on top of things!
Administrator
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
January 06 2011 02:00 GMT
#154
Wish there was someone that did this but reversed like PvZ...

Nontheless absolute brilliant guide!
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
JTouche
Profile Joined August 2010
United States239 Posts
January 06 2011 04:23 GMT
#155
Very nice ^_^ Thankyou for the information
Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. ~Eric Fromm
Trinz
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia72 Posts
January 06 2011 06:39 GMT
#156
Switched from terran to zerg recently. This has been so much help. Ty ty
warblob004
Profile Joined January 2011
United States198 Posts
January 06 2011 06:53 GMT
#157
Very Well done, I really appreciate how you incorporated all the approximate timings, as well as how they fare relative to the zerg/protoss point of view.
"I have not failed; I've simply found 10,000 ways it won't work." ~Thomas Edison
AimlessAmoeba
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada704 Posts
January 07 2011 08:18 GMT
#158
Such an unbelievable amount of help. This is far and away my hardest matchup, and you made it that much easier. Thanks!
Sockpuppet
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
119 Posts
January 21 2011 03:06 GMT
#159
Great guide +1
Zeon0
Profile Joined September 2010
Austria2995 Posts
January 27 2011 01:00 GMT
#160
lately i saw a few replays of ZvP with non gas fastexpansion openings. Is this a good idea? Or do you stick to the speedling expand in every match?
Hater of MKP since GSL Open Season 2 | Fanboy of: NesTea Stephano IdrA DIMAGA MorroW ret DongRaeGu Snute SaSe Mvp ThorZaIN DeMusliM
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 55m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft623
SortOf 165
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 1186
Hyuk 639
Rush 233
Sharp 136
ggaemo 128
Killer 90
Leta 83
ToSsGirL 64
Bale 55
Shine 28
[ Show more ]
soO 21
sorry 19
Sacsri 18
NaDa 17
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm64
League of Legends
JimRising 455
C9.Mang0396
Reynor94
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss614
olofmeister146
Other Games
summit1g10188
singsing717
Happy245
XaKoH 216
B2W.Neo116
Mew2King81
ToD25
Dewaltoss19
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick671
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH219
• Light_VIP 3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• iopq 0
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota229
League of Legends
• Jankos533
• HappyZerGling165
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
55m
WardiTV 2025
2h 55m
StarCraft2.fi
7h 55m
WardiTV 2025
1d 2h
RSL Revival
1d 19h
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Sziky vs JDConan
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs TBD
herO vs Zoun
WardiTV 2025
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Tarson vs DragOn
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Revival: Season 3
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
RSL Offline Finals
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.