EPTMass Reapers - Page 2
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crueknight
United States21 Posts
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
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Ganondorf
Italy600 Posts
On November 16 2010 08:30 crueknight wrote: Question: Do you guys build reapers with that factory req speed upgrade? I hardly even think about reapers because of that. But I'm really starting to think if it is actually wise to go back to reapers? In my experimentation with this build, i would get the upgrade very late but it's not important, since i'm transitioning into something different than reapers. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On November 16 2010 08:00 Steelflight-Rx wrote: Thank god the expert came to tell us not to do it! Seriously, if you're going to make a post like this, at least provide a replay or something other than "this strategy sucks" There is not much else to say about it honestly. It was great when the speed upgrade was at barracks. Now it never will work. Why would I provide replays for this when it's common sense? No one has to provide a replay for this type of thing. It's not a simple "oh, the strategy may not be as effective now." It's a matter of, "oh, blizzard completely altered the tech path to get the reaper upgrade, which makes it not viable." The reason you could reaper versus P before was because of the speed upgrade, which allowed you to semi-contain them, and keep P at home and at bay. That's completely gone now, which is the only reason it worked in the first place. Otherwise, like anyone will tell you here, a simple 4 gate or any stalker build will just kill you. The game is much more fleshed out now. So yes, I can confidently advise you (just like any good T would) that you should never do this versus protoss. Let me put it this way - any good T here or myself encouraging you to go reapers versus protoss in this patch would be like encouraging you to open stargate in PvT in SC1. Yes, versus some bad players it might look like "wow that might have a chance of working!" but versus anyone that is even D+ iccup level you're actually hurting yourself by simply using a bad build/inefficient build order. Is that a good enough explanation for you? By all means go ahead and do it, but it would only work up to around gold/platinum level...which yeah...doesn't say much for it's viability. | ||
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Frosti
United States8 Posts
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Ganondorf
Italy600 Posts
On November 16 2010 08:38 Frosti wrote: I really think after the first 8 or so reapers QXC could have switched to marauders and won the game much much earlier. Sure he had him pinned but he also forced the tosses unit comp in such a way that straight marauders would own. No, it's way later in the game that the transition should occur. You need a scary high number of reapers. capable of harassing and running around, to keep the toss pinned. They should be able to kill 3-4 stalkers easily (8 reapers won't cut it, more like 20 reapers). Warpin won't work, he has to keep the main army in his base. | ||
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tchan
Australia121 Posts
And you're forgetting that you dont just make reapers. Does Zerg just make mutas? Does protoss just make dt's/pheonix's/voidrays? just make reapers and you die, doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Yeah, you also have to throw in a few marawders dude. | ||
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tehbesterest
4 Posts
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SC2Real
Germany184 Posts
On November 16 2010 08:35 avilo wrote: There is not much else to say about it honestly. It was great when the speed upgrade was at barracks. Now it never will work. Why would I provide replays for this when it's common sense? No one has to provide a replay for this type of thing. It's not a simple "oh, the strategy may not be as effective now." It's a matter of, "oh, blizzard completely altered the tech path to get the reaper upgrade, which makes it not viable." The reason you could reaper versus P before was because of the speed upgrade, which allowed you to semi-contain them, and keep P at home and at bay. That's completely gone now, which is the only reason it worked in the first place. Otherwise, like anyone will tell you here, a simple 4 gate or any stalker build will just kill you. The game is much more fleshed out now. So yes, I can confidently advise you (just like any good T would) that you should never do this versus protoss. Let me put it this way - any good T here or myself encouraging you to go reapers versus protoss in this patch would be like encouraging you to open stargate in PvT in SC1. Yes, versus some bad players it might look like "wow that might have a chance of working!" but versus anyone that is even D+ iccup level you're actually hurting yourself by simply using a bad build/inefficient build order. Is that a good enough explanation for you? By all means go ahead and do it, but it would only work up to around gold/platinum level...which yeah...doesn't say much for it's viability. of course it's non-sense to make a reaper-build on steppes against an one-base-4-gate-toss and of course it's (normally :S)only an early-game build which transitiones very well into a bio-build with early-ish expand. the point is that it is quite effective on larger maps againt early expanding P where P has to spread his units out to defend so that you can largely outnumber the defenders on one point. also reapers are not for containing, they are for punishing your opponent if he tries to move out. if he does so he is basically all-in and you have good chances to hold it with bunkers and pulling workers, note: just like any muta-attack you shouldn't attack frontal against the giant protoss-ball with your reapers or else they will get raped. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
All terrans will get the factory for their starport tech anyway so why not get the speed upgrade if you still have the reaper ball. Just like any banshee/hellion harass (you dont mass them either) the goal is to get ahead, not win outright. | ||
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Srule
Canada181 Posts
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inFeZa
Australia556 Posts
First off - It was a handicap, he was only using specialized units like reaper ghost Second off - it worked damn well for the map. as there was 2 huge gaps to my base which was forcing me to split my army and as day9 anayzised things like stalkers can easily get picked off, thats why i stuck with gateway units and blink, giving me mobility to move between the harass. Thirdly - Transitioning would be different, but it forces me to be on low count of bases while you have free minerals to expand. After playing this game i feel that i've learned the most from this game, how such a good offense, even if it is weak can pin you down to your base, especially on such a large map and with good mobile units. Feel free to ask any questions about the game | ||
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shakenbake
United States207 Posts
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frantic.cactus
New Zealand164 Posts
I'm just lazily theory crafting because i'm at work and have nothing better to do, but: you could get ahead in expansions you need a factory for the speed upgrade you need a factory for mech how about rax->CC-> rax rax -> fac -> speed -> tanks and third (meh i'll try it out and see if something like this can be done) hmmmm sounds quite gas heavy speed reapers seem to let you impose yourself on the map giving mech play the mobility it needs (vulture replacement anyone). you don't need to constantly make reapers throughout the game just replenish your raiding force. This also means you can have 4 rax worth of marine production to help stop any pesky air transition that toss love to do against a meching player. Mass reaper all game is obviously stupid but just because you have the producrion facilitys does not mean you need to use them all the time. Back in BW days it wasn't uncommon to see a Terran player make MM against Zerg and then transition into straight up Mech. This could just be an effective opening. | ||
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Kammalleri
Canada613 Posts
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Enervate
United States1769 Posts
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Sabre80
United States8 Posts
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SC2Real
Germany184 Posts
On November 16 2010 10:54 frantic.cactus wrote: This is some cool early game action. Possibly making mech play more viable? I'm just lazily theory crafting because i'm at work and have nothing better to do, but: you could get ahead in expansions you need a factory for the speed upgrade you need a factory for mech how about rax->CC-> rax rax -> fac -> speed -> tanks and third (meh i'll try it out and see if something like this can be done) hmmmm sounds quite gas heavy speed reapers seem to let you impose yourself on the map giving mech play the mobility it needs (vulture replacement anyone). you don't need to constantly make reapers throughout the game just replenish your raiding force. This also means you can have 4 rax worth of marine production to help stop any pesky air transition that toss love to do against a meching player. Mass reaper all game is obviously stupid but just because you have the producrion facilitys does not mean you need to use them all the time. Back in BW days it wasn't uncommon to see a Terran player make MM against Zerg and then transition into straight up Mech. This could just be an effective opening. you won't have enough reapers to do anything if you go 1 rax expand. MM will be the better choice for this style. the point is to outnumber the enemy (3-4 rax) and expand as soon as you can afford it with constant reaper/scv/depot-production. | ||
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SC2Real
Germany184 Posts
On November 16 2010 11:08 Sabre80 wrote: So what would be the ideal maps to try this mass reaper opening? shakuras plateau, i guess. ideally on cross positions. long rush distance, easy defendable natural and decent amount of cliffs. | ||
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frantic.cactus
New Zealand164 Posts
On November 16 2010 11:09 SC2Real wrote: you won't have enough reapers to do anything if you go 1 rax expand. MM will be the better choice for this style. the point is to outnumber the enemy (3-4 rax) and expand as soon as you can afford it with constant reaper/scv/depot-production. Aw but I love FEing so much ^__^ Well then i'll try it the way you said. 4 rax -> expand. Why fix what aint broke right? I just really like expanding.... But what about after the expo goes down. You're into the midgame, Hopefully with an advantage and a deadly/mobile counter attack force. Stifle expand attempts and proxy tech with reapers while expanding yourself and massing tanks etc etc etc. (good for scouting tech switches too) (I don't mean to derail the thread just to look at the reapers viability in a game long plan) | ||
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