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If you missed it Day9 analyzed a sweet match yesterday where QXC made nothing but reapers vs a toss player who went blink stalkers. Amazingly QXC won and it got me motivated to try this myself. I also had great success. I went 8 wins 2 losses in my last 10 ladder games doing a mass reaper opening (1600 diamond).
As day9 was saying this build flows really well. Since reapers are only 50mins you can get lots of barracks and expand quick while pumping our reapers none stop. I do the basic OC start, 4 rax with tech labs who produce reapers none stop, then I expand and put up bunkers.
The beauty of going mass reapers is you can contain your opponent early because if he leaves his base you can easily punish him with your reapers, and you can easily transition into mass MMM.
Definitely check out the Day9 daily from November 14th if u missed it.
My Replays:
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-166172.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-166175.jpg)
And I will also include a replay of a game in which I lost:
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-166176.jpg)
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if there's a replay from some of the games can you post it I'd like to give this a whirl myself
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QXC was playing a game handicapped.
Mass Reaper doesn't work if Toss gets off gateways.
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It's a very map dependant build though. On smaller maps with a different geometry, this might not work at all as not everywhere is so much space to swing around, manouver and such a long rush distance. On God's Garden it does indeed work perfectly well, but on other maps the pin will be far less effective and you might just get rolled with a timing push that includes a few robo units.
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I liked his build because it force a lot of stalkers, but then he should have transitionned to marauders.
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Yeah played against this earlier today on ladder. Not sure how to counter it yet since I've only encountered it once. Did an early expo on LT and he went 4 rax reaper. Was hard to leave the base at all because 10 reapers beat 2-3 stalkers and cannons get demolished as all buildings do. Bunkering his front stopped my gateway unit immortal combo. Probes get raped obviously.
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When reapers had the speed upgrade at barracks tech, this was viable. I used to do it quite a bit too, but now it's complete trash. Never do it versus protoss.
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On November 16 2010 07:55 avilo wrote:
When reapers had the speed upgrade at barracks tech, this was viable. I used to do it quite a bit too, but now it's complete trash. Never do it versus protoss.
Thank god the expert came to tell us not to do it! Seriously, if you're going to make a post like this, at least provide a replay or something other than "this strategy sucks"
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reapers stand no chance against stalkers lol... and u cant contain toss since they can just warp in stalkers to their mineral line, idk what ur talking about here...
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Haters going to hate.
Obviously mass reapers won't work once the game progresses and higher tech units come out, but how about early reapers to get map control and expand (maybe twice) and what not then transition into a better unit mix.
User was warned for this post
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On November 16 2010 08:00 Steelflight-Rx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 07:55 avilo wrote:
When reapers had the speed upgrade at barracks tech, this was viable. I used to do it quite a bit too, but now it's complete trash. Never do it versus protoss.
Thank god the expert came to tell us not to do it! Seriously, if you're going to make a post like this, at least provide a replay or something other than "this strategy sucks"
I'm going to second Avilo on this - tried it for that one funday monday challenge, lost a few games, came to the conclusion that it sucks. You can't really skirmish with a race that has shields, and you can't really outmuscle them in a straight up fight. If they ever manage to tech up, you're screwed, and if they don't you're still trying to ski uphill.
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I dunno, I did have a TvP Build that used reaper marine/marauder with some timing attacks but it sucks after 6/7 minutes.
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Hmm... Stalkers seem like they ought to be the answer, along with good vision and some aggression. I'd guess the best way to deal with this would be like dealing with mass Mutas: punish him for ever leaving his base. Run a Probe along with your Stalkers and build a Pylon in his base before killing all his buildings. Might have some problems with him lifting off, but the aggression will essentially force him to return home or lose straight-up. Maybe a 50-50 army split could do it, as your Stalkers are more powerful than his Reapers and so could make him lose both offense and defense. Perhaps a 40-60 split would be even better, as you could reinforce back home much easier. The most important response, of course, would be an emphasis on armor (and shield) upgrades. The Reapers lose literally 33% of their damage output with the first upgrade, making them nearly worthless. A couple of Sentries would have a somewhat similar effect, but could be easily sniped (although the Reapers would take fire getting into position). Colossi would, of course, be excellent, but their high tech location and cost make that proposition less attractive.
NEVER GET +1 ATTACK VERSUS MASS REAPER. It won't increase your kill time by anything.
The strength of this strategy lies mostly in its unorthodoxy. I'm not saying it's a bad strategy, just not quite strong enough to stand on its own.
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This right here is about as bad as the blizzard forums guys....
Please use your brains. This is not saying "Lols I make only reapers and beat Toss all the time lawls"
This is a very good post using thinking that more people should use. The post describes the USE of reapers to keep the protoss easily contained while you get production up and your expansion.
This is a beautiful idea because it's just the opener, make 8 reapers and never make another again, or maybe 15 is more your style and instead of a straight contain you do multi pronged harass or some shit.
One person above me mentions how reapers are useless after toss gets off of gateways. and yes this is a fact. Thats why after you see something like that you don't say to yourself "well shit, I just saw a stargate finish and a void ray start making. Better make more reapers"
^^That is pretty much what the "Mass Reaper doesn't work if toss gets off gateways" guy's mindset would be. QXC can show off and play pure reaper with a ghost or two because he's fucking QXC. Most normal people with a "Mass reaper" strategy would simply make a bunch of reapers. Use them effectively to pin back his opponent and expand. Fuck dude you could transition into anything, maybe even mass mech/thors from this reaper opening. We simply don't know cause it's not "normal"
fuck normal, reapers kick ass.
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On November 16 2010 08:04 PanzerKing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 08:00 Steelflight-Rx wrote:On November 16 2010 07:55 avilo wrote:
When reapers had the speed upgrade at barracks tech, this was viable. I used to do it quite a bit too, but now it's complete trash. Never do it versus protoss.
Thank god the expert came to tell us not to do it! Seriously, if you're going to make a post like this, at least provide a replay or something other than "this strategy sucks" I'm going to second Avilo on this - tried it for that one funday monday challenge, lost a few games, came to the conclusion that it sucks. You can't really skirmish with a race that has shields, and you can't really outmuscle them in a straight up fight. If they ever manage to tech up, you're screwed, and if they don't you're still trying to ski uphill.
Clearly you must be missing something, the OP had a lot of success with it. You can't engage stalkers head on, but you can damn sure engage probes. If he warps in a round of units to defend, you will have enough reapers there to take them out no problem.
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As someone mentioned in the above posts I can see this build being very map dependent, as in Scrap station, blistering sands, jungle basin and maybe delta quadrant.
I will test this build out cause it seems quite promising but I really wouldn't think about doing this on small maps as a quick transition into losing your whole fucking base as protoss seem inevitable, as long as your prepared for the inevitable push out your good to go, definitely needs more exploring then just pushing it aside as crap.
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On November 16 2010 08:12 Wrathgarr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 08:04 PanzerKing wrote:On November 16 2010 08:00 Steelflight-Rx wrote:On November 16 2010 07:55 avilo wrote:
When reapers had the speed upgrade at barracks tech, this was viable. I used to do it quite a bit too, but now it's complete trash. Never do it versus protoss.
Thank god the expert came to tell us not to do it! Seriously, if you're going to make a post like this, at least provide a replay or something other than "this strategy sucks" I'm going to second Avilo on this - tried it for that one funday monday challenge, lost a few games, came to the conclusion that it sucks. You can't really skirmish with a race that has shields, and you can't really outmuscle them in a straight up fight. If they ever manage to tech up, you're screwed, and if they don't you're still trying to ski uphill. Clearly you must be missing something, the OP had a lot of success with it. You can't engage stalkers head on, but you can damn sure engage probes. If he warps in a round of units to defend, you will have enough reapers there to take them out no problem.
I've beaten 1600 players with all sorts of whacky builds, because I played better than they did. That doesn't mean that those builds are any good. I would expect to see replays from the OP before placing any faith in a strategy that is awful both on paper and in my personal experience.
Everyone talking about "penning P up in his base" is forgetting that at some point he'll have enough stalkers, probably off of one base, that he can just walk over and kill you, and killing all his probes won't be much consolation when your base is a smoking crater.
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I've been trying it out, mass reaper is a good start but you need to transition into mass bio (mostly marauders) with some air support. Works pretty well as an opening, the toss can't push because he will lose any base trade action. I need to find a good time/trigger for transitioning into a more standard army. I will be using this opening in some ladder games vs toss as well.
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On November 16 2010 08:22 PanzerKing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 08:12 Wrathgarr wrote:On November 16 2010 08:04 PanzerKing wrote:On November 16 2010 08:00 Steelflight-Rx wrote:On November 16 2010 07:55 avilo wrote:
When reapers had the speed upgrade at barracks tech, this was viable. I used to do it quite a bit too, but now it's complete trash. Never do it versus protoss.
Thank god the expert came to tell us not to do it! Seriously, if you're going to make a post like this, at least provide a replay or something other than "this strategy sucks" I'm going to second Avilo on this - tried it for that one funday monday challenge, lost a few games, came to the conclusion that it sucks. You can't really skirmish with a race that has shields, and you can't really outmuscle them in a straight up fight. If they ever manage to tech up, you're screwed, and if they don't you're still trying to ski uphill. Clearly you must be missing something, the OP had a lot of success with it. You can't engage stalkers head on, but you can damn sure engage probes. If he warps in a round of units to defend, you will have enough reapers there to take them out no problem. I've beaten 1600 players with all sorts of whacky builds, because I played better than they did. That doesn't mean that those builds are any good. I would expect to see replays from the OP before placing any faith in a strategy that is awful both on paper and in my personal experience. Everyone talking about "penning P up in his base" is forgetting that at some point he'll have enough stalkers, probably off of one base, that he can just walk over and kill you, and killing all his probes won't be much consolation when your base is a smoking crater.
you can head over to the day9's VODs daily from yesterday to see QXC do it to it's extreme but I can post some replays if u like. I have never done this though, any suggestions on the best way to post them?
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On November 16 2010 08:22 PanzerKing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2010 08:12 Wrathgarr wrote:On November 16 2010 08:04 PanzerKing wrote:On November 16 2010 08:00 Steelflight-Rx wrote:On November 16 2010 07:55 avilo wrote:
When reapers had the speed upgrade at barracks tech, this was viable. I used to do it quite a bit too, but now it's complete trash. Never do it versus protoss.
Thank god the expert came to tell us not to do it! Seriously, if you're going to make a post like this, at least provide a replay or something other than "this strategy sucks" I'm going to second Avilo on this - tried it for that one funday monday challenge, lost a few games, came to the conclusion that it sucks. You can't really skirmish with a race that has shields, and you can't really outmuscle them in a straight up fight. If they ever manage to tech up, you're screwed, and if they don't you're still trying to ski uphill. Clearly you must be missing something, the OP had a lot of success with it. You can't engage stalkers head on, but you can damn sure engage probes. If he warps in a round of units to defend, you will have enough reapers there to take them out no problem. I've beaten 1600 players with all sorts of whacky builds, because I played better than they did. That doesn't mean that those builds are any good. I would expect to see replays from the OP before placing any faith in a strategy that is awful both on paper and in my personal experience. Everyone talking about "penning P up in his base" is forgetting that at some point he'll have enough stalkers, probably off of one base, that he can just walk over and kill you, and killing all his probes won't be much consolation when your base is a smoking crater.
And you're forgetting that you dont just make reapers. Does Zerg just make mutas? Does protoss just make dt's/pheonix's/voidrays? just make reapers and you die, doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
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EPT
