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[G] A Comprehensive Guide to Zerg Macro Efficiency

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-18 11:36:31
October 26 2010 19:02 GMT
#1
NOTE: I haven't forgotten about you all! I know i haven't been shoeing my face around this thread very much recently, but that doesn't mean i haven't been busy re-creating the guide. I've ended up deciding to turn it into a website which gives me much more room to organise and restructure everything the way i see fit. Allot of the guide has been or is in the process of being re-written, as per request by a few of you here. The guide is also going to be re-born in a much more beautiful and 'flashy' (pun intended) format when the site goes live. It is still going to take me a considerable amount of time to get it to a point i feel it is ready to go live, as i am also adding a hell of allot of new material, some of which is quite advanced strategy wise. I am also expanding on the original concept of it being purely about macro and am in the process of turning it into a guide about 'everything' regarding the nature of zerg and gameplay in general. A big ideal yes, but i've been planning allot, and making lots of mind maps and scribbles upon scribbles on paper and have plotted out a pretty nice flow to the whole thing. For a sneaky peak take a look at the screen shot in the spoiler.

Just an update to to let those of you wondering what the future of this guide is, it isn't slowly dissapearing into obscurity, its meerly, like all good zerg, in a cocoon stage, ready to pop into a whole other level of beast

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


A note about this guide:
Allot of this, if not all of it is not new material. I have written this (apart from the request for help from a bronze level player, i believe) as when watching low to mid level replays in general, i have noticed a regular trend in their play-styles. Specifically their lack of using one/two or a collection of the fundamentals i have listed in this guide, and/or a lack of understanding the relationships between these different concepts.

What this guide attempts to provide is a coherent and progressive system on developing an underlying cognitive structure at integrating each of the important elements of macro efficiency into a unified and communicating system of thought triggers and critical thinking.

The lack of this, in my opinion, is the defining reason allot of the players in the lower leagues are still in the lower leagues. They may be able to intellectualize and know about the concepts in question, but what they lack is an integration of these into their overall game awareness and reflex response while playing. Which is why this guide is written in a specific manner, as a progressive guide based on steps that build upon each other and rely on previous steps in increasingly complex relationships.

I simply want a more competitive and higher skilled community, and giving people a process through which they can transcend their current mental blocks in improvement, will make this gaming community a better and more interesting place for all of us.



I originally wrote this guide as a reply to someones request for help with Zerg, so when reading you will notice a few comments in relation to said persons position of skill. as it has grown into a pretty comprehensive guide for zerg macro i have decided to post it as a stand alone guide in its own thread. It is the first guide i have written for any game, and i am quite proud of it really

This guide is intended for low to mid level (bronze/silver/gold) zerg players who intend to improve their macro and meta-game efficiency, although i feel allot of the concepts explained in the guide may be seen by some people as being applicable to higher skilled level players aswell.

Please feel free to check out the guide and leave me some feedback as a reply as to what i could change, remove or add to it (as long as it is within my current level of understanding of the game mechanics and relevant to Macro/meta-gaming efficiency)

I will leave the majority of the guide in its original state, purely because its to long to go through and change certain bits.

I hope you enjoy it and find this helpful!

*********A comprehensive Guide to Becoming Macro Efficient with Zerg***********

Firstly and probably most importantly, you don't need to be 'fast' as such to be a good player, its not about having 100+ APM and physically quick and accurate movements in-order to win (yet...) Really really get this point into your head, that Starcraft 2 is much more predominantly a game of timing, not speed. So slow down!! (if you're scattering your clarity of mind by being 'pulled along' by the perspective you need to 'keep up' with the game, something I fall for sometimes.) The idea here is to develop a robust sense of when to do things, not how to do things quickly (that will come later).

The importance of 'good timing' will become more prominent to you as your knowledge of the underlying game mechanics improve. Arguably everything, and especially for zerg, essentially revolves through a repetitive rota, in which you need to apply manual input as close to the very beginning of each round of that rota for each element of game-play. Further to this, each 'rota' is mutually interdependent on other rotas, a good example of this is unit/drone production and Supply cap. Your supply will increase as you create drones/units, so as you make drones/units you need to also keep tabs on your supply cap, this is related to your larva production, which you have to administer manually at the right timing window, which is the most fundamentally important rota to become efficient at when playing zerg. You may be thinking 'why are you telling me this, i already know', but believe me when i say there is a difference between intellectualizing this point (to which you can already do) and having that aspect of the game mechanics ingrained into your play-style, to which you are currently lacking.

As you want to improve, you seriously need to become more consciously aware of the timings and relationships between the different macro fundamentals, and seriously tighten and improve your ability at implementing them into your play-style in a punctual, and ultimately a manner as efficient as the game mechanics allow. This is at present your biggest short fall. Before you begin to think about strategy and unit composition, hell, even build orders, you need to learn to walk before you learn to jog, let alone run.

Here i will break down each of the fundamental aspects of Macro, allot of these points can be translated over for any race, but it is written from and for the perspective of zerg. When you play, try your very hardest to follow these steps and act on the knowledge you will gain from reading this guide.

Larva
+ Show Spoiler +
At the very root of zerg is larva, focus almost purely on injecting as the larva drops, or as close to as possible, every time. (A tip here is to listen for a little 'splutch' noise when you are near your base, this is the sound of larva dropping). Just stick to that one fundamental every time, until you can inject literally as that 'rota' resets (the larva drops and you can inject again). You ideally need to be at a point of doing it so quickly that when u go to inject (and should be able to) that you cannot as your queen hasn't got enough energy for the first 1/2 second you try after the larva drops (this only happens for the first few injects as the energy reserves gradually build up over time naturally) This is keeping the rota fluent, it needs to be a constant motion, as missing the timing window for an inject is essentially 'staggering' the fluency at your ability to produce units, ergo increase your presence (and ultimately attempt at dominance) on the map and in the mind of your opponent.

When you reach a point where you are returning to the hatcheries to inject and hitting your timing mark accurately every-time almost without fail, you will notice how much more consistently you are thinking about your state of larva production (and amount of larva currently available). This is your aim and the reason for you focusing on larva production so much for the time being, as this specific element of 'game awareness' is a fundamental prerequisite to thinking in practical terms about your drone and unit capacity/production. I.E. Your awareness of larva production will (and in a practical context, when you know your larva has just dropped and it is time to inject) will (and should) motivate you to make units, right at that very point. Which has created for you the grounds on which you can practically and/or tactically think about 'which type of unit' you need to produce.

You need the former in-order to have clear direction and punctuality for the latter.

Further to this, this basic rota of queen injection and larva production is the fundamentally underlying concept to good zerg macro, it is the carnal beat maintaining the rhythm of zergs growth in the game, and which you must use as an anchor to time the rest of your macro-based responsibilities around, and use as a tool to place trigger events in game to force your mind to remember certain periodic responsibilities of developing and maintaining your macro. This point will become clearer to you as you read on.


Unit Production
+ Show Spoiler +
You next need to think about Unit Production, more importantly, as an extension of your prior development of play-style: Efficient Unit Production, the ability to produce units as your larva pop, every time. (or as close to as possible, again this will become more situational as your strategical play improves in higher leagues, for the moment learning the fundamental process in its pure state is your highest priority.) This can be most easily achieved by a wonderful technique coined by Day9. Its is the concept of following the rule: When > Then.

In this case it will be [when] i inject > [then] i make units. How you actually do this is to physically think at the point you inject "i'm injecting (when inject); I need to make units (then make units)" Every single time you inject. Until it is literally ingrained into your play-style as deeply as your awareness of larva production and injection. You should be developing these concepts to the degree that in amongst your other elements of gameplay, if you are missing a timing window to administer part of this fundamental, your mind should be screaming at you "I need to inject! I need to inject! [or]"I need to use my larva! "I need to create units!" (later, upon this base rota of triggered memory and action you will be placing decision making tasks in regards to the creation of assets tied to a resource cost based on the timings created by this system.)

Until you have reached this point in ability and awareness you should focus first and foremost on these fundamentals.

A prominent thought in your mind will also be "which units do i need to make". Aside from following a set pattern of build orders that instruct the type of unit you should make, it is important to develop an understanding of why these build orders/unit compositions exist as certain strategies in the first place. The obvious answer is that they counter your opponents strategy and/or have inherent strengths able to exploit weaknesses in your opponents strategy. again though, there is a major difference in being able to intellectualize this concept, and being educated in its intricacies. The latter allowing you a much more self empowering, reactive and emergent ability at strategical planning in matches, the former (simply following build orders) restricting you to an often rigid play style that (without the reflexive attributes of the latter) will not cater for emergent scenarios presented to you in real time while playing.

The heart of this concept lies in unit counters, this subject is simply too intricate and complex to go into in any great detail here, so i will link you to the resource you need to begin learning which units counter which units. refer to this page, scroll to the bottom zerg section and use the links to access the unit information pages for zerg units. On each unit page, pay close attention to the 'strong against' and 'weak against' listings in the info box to the right on each page in-order to learn which units to build and/or engage in response to your enemies units, and which units to avoid when controlling said units on the field/in battles. Also spend allot of time becoming familiar what is written in the 'Competitive Usage' section at the bottom of each unit page as these are a great resource on learning when specific units can be situationaly efficient. It is also advisable to spend arguably as much of your time researching into the strengths, weaknesses and 'Competitive Usage' of all of the units for each of the other races: "If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu" Knowing Thy Enemy, so to speak, is as important as knowing the intricacies of your own race.

This research, twinned with your practical practice in game of what to do when in regards to unit composition and build orders (tech/production building necessities) will almost solely dramatically improve your competency in matches, as this knowledge will instruct your direction in game and motivate your actions towards a coherent and unified aim, so rather than flitting about with moments of confusion as to what to do next and adding buildings, teching up or making units in slight contradiction to or simply not complimenting each-others strength (as is inevitable when in a state of naivety), lowering your APM and weakening your potentiality in the process. Once you take time to get really comfortable with this information, you will be much more fluent and reactive to your opponent, knowing immediately what to do and how to react, while building a focused force based on your pool of information about the game mechanics. Its a no-brainer.


Supply Cap
+ Show Spoiler +
Intimately related to your larva production (ergo unit production) is your supply cap. This point may seem obvious, but understanding it properly is easily equally important as the prior fundamental mechanics. Getting supply capped more than staggers the fluency of your unit production, it completely halts it. So it should be very close to the forefront of your mind to keep your supply cap comfortably above your current (and soon to be current!) unit population. This again can be developed using the technique of [when] > [then].

In this case, as an extension to your previously developed skills as stated above, you should begin to use the rule of: [when] I make units > [then] I check my supply cap. This means that at the point you are physically making your units, you need to train your eye to look at your supply cap. every single time you make units (further to this eventually you will ideally be looking at the state of your unit cap just after battles, as at this time you may not need to make overlords due to a drop in capacity use (essentially checking any time your unit capacity will change) and when any of your overlords are in danger or being attacked, eventually you should reflexively set 1 or 2 overlords to build any time a current overlord i being attacked and seems to be about to die).

To get good at this you need to develop the underlying awareness of how your unit production is related to your supply cap on a conscious and constant level in matches. This awareness is important to have your mind develop a motivation to produce Overlords in response to your unit capacity needs by constantly updating your awareness of the state of your unit capacity at the specific point that information is the most important, I.E. when you make units. I know that sounds a little complicated, what it essentially means is, along with your larva injection and use, and unit production, you also need to develop into your game awareness the constant checking of how these actions are effecting your supply cap and administering the production of Overlords in response to such.

You would be surprised how often this point is overlooked once our twice, even by top level players. This is because some of the time they have not put conscious energy into integrating their need for Overlords into a communicating system of lateral thinking tied to the underlying rhythm of zergs unit production. Whereas the idea i am explaining here is to develop a mental trigger you can rely on, so you don't have to worry about remembering to make overlords as this concept will ideally eventually be ingrained into your awareness. (which i have to point out is different than relying on memory)

Getting a little deeper into this, you need to be ideally pre-empting your unit capacity in relation to the capacity needs of the units currently, or soon to be, in production. This developed act of physically looking at your supply cap as you are making units should instruct you on how many overlords you need to put into production in this round of your larva production rota along with your army and/or economic units, remembering the rule that you need to pre-empt where your supply cap is roughly going to need to be around the time your next unit production burst/larva inject timing window arrives.

This is often case sensitive as it will almost always depend on the supply needs of the specific units you are intending to make. This is simply something you will have to learn over time, please refer to this page, scroll to the zerg section at the bottom and use the various linked unit names to access the information page for each unit type then refer to the 'cost' listing on the info box to the right of each unit page. Look at the number beside the little overlord looking symbol, this is the supply cost for that unit. Get to learn these well as this is the source of information you need in mind when pre-empting the amount of overlords you will need to produce as part of the macro aspect we are currently working. on.


Resource and Economy.
+ Show Spoiler +
even when efficiently producing larva and maintaining your supply cap, you cannot build units if you do not have the economic integrity to do so. This is quite a fluent subject and often practically has a close mathematical relationship to the specific resource needs of the units you intend to make. This is a slightly more advanced aspect of economy that i will go into a little more later on, for now we need to focus on the fundamentals of developing and maintaining an economy.

As part of administering you unit (army and overlord) production that we have looked into previously, you also need to develop the ability to constantly add to your drone count on each round of larva production/injection. This is simply a matter of setting some of the larva created to produce drones.

How to do this is remembering to always (along with hitting 'V' a number of times as defined by the information you receive by looking at your unit cap), hit 'D' a number of times defined by the visual input you will receive from going round your hatcheries while injecting and while doing this looking at the state of the saturation at each of your bases (this also will in-turn trigger another decision based on the possibility of expanding, which is also essentially tied to other inputs based on your current strategical position in the match and wether or not it is viable for you to expand, this, again will be explained in more detail later). Each of these processes will supply you with the information you need to, with practice, make an informed decision as to the ratio of Drones, Overlords and army units you will need to make for this rota of larva production, translated eventually into an instinctual reflex with your hand at hitting D and V respectively a number of times connected to the visual input received.

This concept sounds amazingly simple and no-brainer, but you would be surprised how easily and often it is overlooked in the heat of matches! Especially with the common psychological pressure of possible imminent attack, an over production of army units and a failure to administer drones to economy is a surprisingly common occurrence, even through the obviously counter productive nature of this when looked at critically. Developing a really self reliant ability with this process will almost by itself sort out your economic problems. It has been said that it is better to loose a game to an overproduction of drones, than a lack of ability to produce units through a lack of economy because you are too busy focusing on making army units to protect yourself, as if this is the case your strategical development will be being dominated by fear, this is never a good thing. Learning how to intelligently apply a ratio to drone/army production based on your current strategical position in game is another major thing you need to be really focusing on in your play-style development.

There are strategically effective and ineffective times to create drones, for example, just after you have taken out a large portion of your enemies army is a good time to produce purely drones (not forgetting the 1 or 2 overlords) for the next round of your larva rota. Concurrently, it is also a good time to produce almost purely drones when you have scouted that your opponent is expanding. It is obviously not a good time to produce just drones if your enemy is about to push, in which case you need to produce the unit counter for his unit type, if applicable, which you hopefully should be able to, which is reliant on good scouting to set up the capabilities to counter the push enough in advance for it to be effective. As scouting is essentially a micro mechanic i will not be going into it as micro is mutually exclusive to macro and as you are trying to learn macro, learning micro will detract from your macro efficiency, by this i mean you only have a finite ability at doing things in game, microing units round the map is going to take up mental room and physical time, detracting from your development of macro integrity, which is the point of this post... phew!

Tangents aside, another good use of the [when]>[then] technique is to use the system of: [when] i hotkey to my hatchery (explained in more detail later) > [then] i look at my drone saturation. At that point ask yourself 'do i need to make more drones', if your drone saturation looks low then you have (some of the) the input needed to decide how many drones you may need to make in your next larva rota, the other input would be strategical elements based on intel (from scouting) and possible imminent threats or wether your opponent is expanding e.t.c.

The reason you should use the 'when i hotkey to my hatchery' trigger, and not the 'when i inject' trigger is you are already using that trigger and it may get confusing for you to cross reference triggers. I find it easier to get me to remind myself through the action of hitting the relevant hotkey for that hatchery (again explained later), to look at my drone saturation for 'that' base, then as i'm going round my hatcheries (which literally takes less than 2 seconds) As i know i'm about to make units ([when] make units > [then] check supply) i'm looking at my supply while thinking about the current strategical situation as an indicator of what units i need to make with the larva that has just popped. Part of that is how many drones i may need to make based on how saturated my bases are. This is the thinking process you should be using to maintain your economy

Gas is another important factor in maintaining your economy. Out of all the races ( i may be wrong on this point ) i believe Zerg can be the most gas heavy, so it is absolutely important you get gas running quickly. Gas is out of the three possible resources (including larva) the most situational, yet also the most important. The amount of gas you will need for a specific build, and how quickly you will need it will always be situational to that build. In regards to attaining a more accurate balance of the mineral gas ratio needed for your unit composition i would advise again to use liquipedia and look at the cost tab for each unit. Your aim here is to develop an ability to see the potential mineral/gas ratio (cost) for that unit composition, pre-emptively, ideally before you even begin the build. Here it is integral to develop an awareness of and become familiar with the potential mineral/gas and supply cost of the sum total of the specific unit composition in question and build the logistical capabilities of attaining and maintaining that, in advance. Obviously not forgetting to build an adequate defense while catering for your build. Your ultimate aim here is to find that perfect balance between defensive/offensive capabilities and economic sustainability.

For example if you are going for a muta heavy build, you should already know that the supply cost of mutas is 2, that they have a mineral cost of 100 and a gas cost of 100. As this is relatively gas heavy, as units go, you should add as part of your strategy 2 extractors early on, and begin to build the gas reserves in advance, ready for when a spire is up. You should also be making extra overlords in advance to prepare for the supply strain massing mutas will have on your supply cap. Setting up the grounds for builds is one of the most important aspects of good macro.

Anyway,there comes a point in your base saturation where you feel like its time to expand (amongst other reasons, another time that is stated as good to expand is when you are attacking, although this takes allot more competence at multitasking). You ideally want to set your expansion up slightly before your base is over saturated so you have a minimal window of resource collection deficiency due to over saturation. More than 3 drones will deliver exponentially diminishing returns the more over 3 drones you have on each mineral rock. To explain this concept further, i have pulled a quote from another thread on TL addressing the issue of drone over saturation.

+ Show Spoiler +
ctOph wrote

Have somewhere between 16-24 workers on minerals, 6 on gas.

<15? Make more workers

16-23? You can make more if you like, but beware that anything after the 16th worker is subject to diminishing returns, and will have less minerals mined per minute than the first 16 workers.

24? You've reached the cap. Any more workers after this would be stupid, unless you have an expo about to pop and you can move some off. Any more workers after 24 on minerals will be either subject to very very harsh diminishing returns, or even not increase your minerals per minute AT ALL, since once you have too many, there will always be a worker wandering around for an open patch of minerals that it will never find.

That's pretty much it. You will see an increase in minerals per minute by adding workers past 16, while still keeping them under 24. The only thing is, like I already said, any workers past 16 will be subject to diminishing returns, since they will be wandering part of the time looking for an open patch. When you have 16 workers, one will mine the patch, then return to the HQ, as its returning, a second worker will mine the same patch, by the time its done, the first worker will be returning, leaving a very short amount of time for a third worker to come in and mine that patch. That is why you should have at least 16, but no more than 24.

edit: Also, I'd like to point out that if you expand, take off workers from your main to your expo, but don't bring your main down to less than 16 workers. Having a main w/ 16 workers, and an expo w/ 16 workers is better than having 24 at your main and 8 at your expo. Kind of common sense but I thought I'd point it out. If you take a third, you should probably only have 16 workers on minerals per base, because having full saturation (30 per base, 24 on min and 6 on gas) cuts into your food supply hard. Creating workers into diminishing returns while having more than 2 bases seems pretty illogical to me. Then again, if you need the minerals, go for it, but at that point in the game you might want to have a bigger army to defend your economy.


In laymen terms, as stated, it is a much better idea to try to accurately assess when the best time to expand is based on your drone saturation (which should be steadily increasing all game) and expand then. Keep tabs on when your expansion is about to pop and Maynard (< link) over to your expansion, ideally so the drones get there as the hatchery pops, when you rally the drones to the new hatchery, while you have your drones selected and your POV over the new expansion, you should hit B > E and then shift click the two vespeine geisers, it is a good idea to do this now as you may forget to do this later, also never forget to set 3 drones on each extractor, developing a systematic approach to expanding, where you follow these basic rules will mean you become allot more self reliant on economic efficiency. I presume currently it is this lack of basic systematics that is causing you to forget to do simple things like this. It is also a good idea at this point to set a queen into production as soon as the hatchery pops.

A note on expanding: It is very important when deciding to expand to ensure you are able to geographically cater for the possible protection of your expansion. As you grow across the map, you should always be thinking about the layout of the map in regards to expanding, keeping tabs on strategical points. The idea is to gradually increase the amount of the map on your end you have secured, and not really expand until you know you can effectively defend that expansion. This is allot to do with map control and unit placement/rallying to ensure you have strategical dominance at certain points, securing areas of the map where you are wanting to expand. You should never try to over stretch yourself by expanding somewhere that will be too strategically un-realistic to defend. This concept should govern the geographical shape of your growth across the map, which is dependent and unique to each map. Therre is an exception to this rule, and that is hidden bases. Later on when you are a better player, it is sometimes on bigger maps an option to place a hidden expansion somewhere far away from your main growth of presence on the map, you can also use Nydus worms to aid this process, but beleive me when i state that this technique causes various control and unit rally problems that may give you more grief than its worth, so try and leave out this strategy until you are much more comfortable with unit control and game mechanics.

Another important pointer about expansions is that with Zerg, you need to ideally expand away from your opponent. Keep that in mind and always try to follow this rule.


Control Groups, Rally Points and Controlling Efficiency.
+ Show Spoiler +
As with getting to grips with in game mechanics is important, so is developing a meta-game system that is comfortable for you. By meta-game i mean how you are physically pressing buttons, setting control groups, rally points and so forth. Even if you have perfect timing and systematic thinking, if you have bad meta-game mechanics, you will always fail, hard. As units will be running off across the map, you will be loosing units all over the place, you may have drones sat at hatcheries as you forgot to set rally points for them, so on and so forth. Not to mention the dramatic increase in APM and the massive cut down of complex thinking needed when your trying to collect units from all over the map. If you have everything structured and ordered smoothly and you follow set routines of meta-game mechanics, you are freeing up allot of that much needed mental space to think about things that should have conscious priority in the heat of a match.


This is what works for me, it is i believe the current 'standard' control group system for zerg. It works. Because it is simple and catered to the nature of play-style needed with Zerg.

When using control groups (and you should always, always always use control groups) it is important to get used to developing a robust and familiar system for yourself. It is also very important to bind the relevant buildings/units e.t.c.to its control group at the soonest possible opportunity, then get used to flicking between control groups on the fly, accurately. This will dramatically increase your APM and ability to be in multiple places at once. It is possible,by using a combination of control groups, hotkeys and the shift+click function, to efficiently multitask any number of elements in your play style. For example: scouting, harassing, injecting, expanding, building units and microing your army at the same time. This is obviously pro level gameplay, but the concept is essentially the same. It is the intelligent and organized use of meta-game mechanics that allows the pro's tho do this so well.

control groups 1 > 2 > 3 : this is your basic army control groups. I always have lings/primary 'upfront' units on 1, roaches/banelings (never at the same time), basically slightly more situational units on 2, and mutas/flying/harass units on 3. This isn't set in stone (i sometimes have lings on 1 roaches on 2 and banelings on 3, or lings and mutas on 1, roaches and hydras on 2 and infestors on 3... you get the idea) . The idea here is to develop a vague 'tactical vibe' for a hotkey, and stick units on that hotkey that are relevent to that 'vibe', which units you actually put on that hotkey is dependent on your unit composition. Experiment with this concept and get used to hitting the first 3 hotkeys to jump between and control individual unit compositions in your army. This is also essentially the beginnings of micro. (I will go into more detail about control strategies and fundamentals in a moment but first i will finish the hotkey list)

Control Group 4 > All Hatcheries : This is an important one for quick production of all of your units, and also the ability to set a rally point for all of your hatcheries by right clicking with this control group selected. It is a good idea to remember to do this to somewhere relevant at the very least every time you add a hatchery to your all hatcheries control group.

As soon as you have set a new hatchery to be built and it begins its embryonic phase, follow these steps:
Click Hatchery > SHIFT+4 ... its that simple!

Please note that the SHIFT+# technique only works for adding new elements to an already created control group. In the beginning of the game, you will need to select your hatchery and hit CTRL+4 (then 5 as you will be adding the queen to this control group later).

With all of your hatcheries set to one hotkey you can simply hit 4>S>[DDDDD : VV : [unit hotkey however many times applicable] (for example). Which will begin building units from all hatcheries, while accessing the sum total of all larva produced by your queen injects. Remember to hit 4 once as hitting it twice will set your POV at the last added hatchery to that control group. Simply hitting 4 once and then administering your unit production will send those units to the rally point you have set, meaning you don't have to worry about where they are going or having to find those units later on.

Remember the rule: that this process of unit creation should ideally be done as your larva drops and just after you have injected (by which time you should have ideally taken in the relevant information about base saturation and supply cap and have hotkeyed back to your army/scout/harass units, then followed with 4>[unit hotkeys]), and the specific drone/unit/overlord ratio should be an informed decision based on the various input parameters explained through the duration of this guide.

Control Groups 5 > 6 > 7 > 8 (>9&0 if needed) : These are your individual hatchery + Queen control groups. This setup gives you optimal coverage for injecting all your hatcheries extremely quickly, it also gives you the advantage of being able to check the state of your bases, looking at building production times, the state of drone saturation e.t.c.

These hotkeys are your meta-game mechanics used to administer your inject rounds. This is the mechanical core of managing your macro efficiency! These control groups are what you will have ideally ingrained into your reflex response based on your mental triggers to administer your larva inject at the exact point it is efficient to do so.

In relation to the control group 4 comment about adding a new hatchery to it, an extention of that rule applies to this control group. As soon as you place a hatchery follow these steps:

click hatchery > SHIFT+4 (adding to your all hatcheries control group > CTRL+#[5/6/7/8] > right click minerals > Hit 4 > right click somewhere to set rally point for the newly updated 'all hatcheries' [ > ? > PROFIT! ].
you must also remember to return periodically to catch it as it pops and set a queen into production, as this queen pops [hit spacebar as you hear the screech] then: select Queen > shift+#[5/6/7/8] You should do this as soon as possible (as with any control group binding).

My general rule is i have my main on 5, my natural on 6, my third on 7 and my 4th on 8, it is very rare i am running off more than 4 bases, and if i move to a 5th, by that time in the game i am usually mined out from my main anyway, so i have never really needed any more than 4 hotkeys for all of my hatcheries.

It is also worth noting here that setting your drone rally point now is the best time to do it, as you are setting up the control groups for your new hatchery. Also, depending on the state of the saturation at your other bases, it may be a good idea to (after adding this hatchery to your control group 4) first hit 4 and then place the drone rally from ALL of your hatcheries to the new expansion, this is also of course situational based on wether you are capable of defending the traveling drones from your other bases.

Now you have this control group - Hatchery&Queen setup when you need to inject, it takes you literally 2 seconds to position your mouse pointer in the middle of the screen and go 55vClick>66vClick.77vClick e.t.c.

Remember earlier on where i was explaining the visual input you will be receiving from checking your overlord count and state of drone saturation. This is the physical action that triggers your need to look at your drone saturation and supply cap ready for you to make your unit composition decision in a few moments when you use the larva that has just been created, remembering that the army unit choices should be strategically chosen based on the various points raised in the unit production section of this guide, keeping in mind the potential relative resource use of said unit production that we looked at in the resource and economy section of this guide. Furthermore all of this in turn should be attached intimately to the rhythm created by your developed systematic approach to punctual Queen injection and larva production.


Control groups 9 & 0 : I personally use 9 for Nydus Worm and 0 for Creep Tumours, these are optional of course.

Allot of Zerg use these hotkeys on a very situational basis, think of them as your reserve hotkeys for things like creep tumors, extra Queens, Nydus worm, tech buildings e.t.c. A good strategy to use with one of these extra hotkeys is to bind an overlord and an extra queen to one of them and use that overlord to spread creep especially for that queen to drop tumors, this is an amazingly quick and effective way of spreading creep!

Another element of meta-game mechanics is adding units to control groups already established, if you are controlling units and, for instance you see just hatched units running on the minimap to your rally, it is sometimes an idea to click the mini map to center POV over where they are running, hit the relevant control group ONCE (as hitting it twice centers the POV over the control group) then follow these steps:
box select the units on screen > SHIFT+relevant control group number. This is only really effective if one unit type is running and you are adding it to the control group you are using for that unit type.

+ Show Spoiler +
Another way of doing this is simply to CTRL+SHIFT+Click one of the units (as it will select all units of that type on screen) > ctrl+relevant control group number. holding CTRL+SHIFT selects all of that unit type and adds it to the currently selected group, you then need to 'set' that group by hitting CTRL+the C-group #

(I have sectioned this part out as i believe there is a better way of doing this although i need to clarify what the exact steps are, hence this little bit is due to be altered and put back into the guide proper.)


You May find an issue with units being 'lost' or hard to click under or in amongst overlords if you have recently massed them for supply reasons, to solve this always get into the habit of remembering that you have just set overlords to spawn and as you hear them popping from your hatcheries select them at your base/rally point and send them around the map (and if you have lair tech, spread creep very quickly) by following these steps:

CTRL+Click an overlord to select all on screen > (if you have lair tech hit g to begin generating creep) > right click somewhere on mini map > SHIFT+Click the wireframe box at the bottom of the screen (the thing with the little unit icons you have selected) this de-selects an overlord from the selection > right click another point on the minimap > Shift Click Wireframe > repeat steps as many times as applicable.

This will very quickly spreads your overlords. Find time to do this, (and ideally place them in optimally strategical positions, obviously) it clears the air over your rally point and spreads creep not to mention gives you eyes all over the map.

A similar process can be used for appending individual units from a defined control group for strategical/scouting reasons. A good example of this is sending 2 of your first 4 zerglings to each of the Xel-Naga towers (obviously this example is for a map with only 2 towers) after you have bound them to control group 1 right as they initially pop (which you should get into the practice of doing), I will use said example of towers and lings to explain the process, which is as follows:

Hit 1 (or the relevant C-group number) > right click eye on minimap to send all lings to the tower > SHIFT+click an icon in the wireframe box > click second eye on minimap > shift click wireframe box > hit CTRL+1 (or relevant C-group number) to re-define the control group. If you do not do this last step, the next time you issue a move command the two lings at the towers will run to your move command point. keep that in mind and remember in any case like this you have to re-define the control group after you have appended units from it.

This technique can be very powerful when used with scouting parties e.t.c. You should practice to get comfortable with adding and appending individual units or groups of units from defined control groups. It will increase your ability to multitask and add to your overall unit organization.

Another important point is as you are making units from larva (after hitting 4 and then administering your units into production) and while you have the eggs selected, by right clicking you can set a rally point that is separate from your hatcheries rally point. Be very careful with this as you can often get quite messy with where you're sending units through forgetting where you set their rally point. A general rule is unless you are rallying units into your enemies base and have a clear tactical advantage, or are rallying units to an outpost where you are pushing with your army further forward than the rally point you just set, only use your hatcheries base rally point, the one you set by right clicking while you have the 4th control group selected. This stops you placing manual rally points for the eggs and forgetting where you placed them. It is generally also quite a messy technique to rally units to another unit, as ( i may be wrong with this but it seems to happen to me) If that unit dies, any units traveling to it stop in a random point of the map! this is obviously a bad mechanic so try to avoid it as much as possible. Be clever about rally points, try to predominantly use the rally point u can set with control group 4 selected, set them somewhere strategically advantageous in an obvious point mid way between your bases, or in the middle of the map if applicable, basically be intelligent about it. You get the idea.

Using control groups should be second nature to you, practice with hopping from one thing to another, from your Army unit control groups to your hatcheries and back again, practice using this in conjunction with the shift+click function with your army units to keep them on the move (or attacking) while you fly round your hatcheries injecting or placing buildings, spreading creep or using other units to harass/scout. As important as using control groups is accurately and punctually setting, altering and maintaining them. Which in turn is as important as setting your rally points every time you build a new hatchery or secure a new strategical point on the map.

Practice the various SHIFT+Click/CTRL+click/CTRL+SHIFT+click/box select e.t.c. techniques i have mentioned and get used to using control groups, rally points and hotkeys in general. Using these in conjunction with the techniques you have been developing through the duration of this guide will enable you to effectively and eventually easily manage the many overlapping responsibilities in maintaining your macro efficiency and intelligently developing your army and presence on the map while simultaneously keeping yourself on the front line of battle, microing your units around the map.

It is also highly important to develop the ability to use the already hard-coded hotkeys for units and buildings in the game. Refer to this page as a reference for developing your understanding and ability at hotkeys.


Everything that i have written here should be taken as a system of mutually interdependent elements that when used together will dramatically improve your gameplay. Use this guide as a resource, work from the top and work on each element down the list.

I hope this guide is of use to you.

Peace out. Xios.
Heart of the Swarm
GinNtoniC
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Sweden2945 Posts
October 26 2010 19:05 GMT
#2
A lot of known stuff. Some new stuff.
But all in all - wow! Dude! Seriously! A great contribution to all the people (most new to starcraft) struggling to understand zerg!

I'm sure there are people better at zerg than me who could help you tweak this to perfection, and we'll have ourselves a [Featured].
Huge fan of JulyZerg, HonestTea and that guy Kim Taek Yong.
Bowdy
Profile Joined April 2010
United States232 Posts
October 26 2010 19:10 GMT
#3
Best 13th post ever. I skimmed through it and none of it's new to me but it's still a great compilation of how to macro as zerg, awesome job.
bowdy.smiteam.net
Afrocious
Profile Joined August 2010
United States81 Posts
October 26 2010 19:45 GMT
#4
I'd appreciate this more if you didn't copy and paste it in that other thread three times.
"ZvZ is like fighting a guy on the street and both of you have a knife." - TheMonkeyMon
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-26 20:52:19
October 26 2010 19:52 GMT
#5
Indeed

Allot of this, if not all of it is not new material. I have written this (apart from the request for help from a bronze level player, i believe) as when watching low to mid level replays in general, i have noticed a regular trend in their play-styles. Specifically their lack of using one/two or a collection of the fundamentals i have listed in this guide, and/or a lack of understanding the relationships between these different concepts.

What this guide attempts to provide is a coherent and progressive structure on developing an underlying cognitive structure at integrating each of the important elements of macro efficiency into a unified and communicating system of thought triggers and critical thinking.

The lack of this, in my opinion, is the defining reason allot of players are still in the lower leagues. They may be able to intellectualize and know about the concepts in question, but what they lack is an integration of these into their overall game awareness and reflex response while playing. Which is why this guide is written in a specific manner, as a progressive guide based on steps that build upon each other and rely on previous steps in increasingly complex relationships.

I simply want a more competitive and higher skilled community, and giving people a process through which they can transcend their current mental blocks in improvement, will make this gaming community a better and more interesting place for all of us.

(Infact i'm going to add this to the beggining of the guide)

- Xios
Heart of the Swarm
KrSuma
Profile Joined September 2010
Korea (South)148 Posts
October 26 2010 19:53 GMT
#6
Im not even zerg and I found this thread epic.
Great Job!

thanks man now Im gonna lose more to Zergs
+ Show Spoiler +
joking nice job really
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
October 26 2010 19:55 GMT
#7
On October 27 2010 04:45 Afrocious wrote:
I'd appreciate this more if you didn't copy and paste it in that other thread three times.


Wow did I?! i have an issue with being signed out from this site periodically, sometimes when i hit 'update' on my edit, it tells me i need to sign in, so i do so, hit back and resend the information to update the post, it may be to do with this, i seriously apologize for that! It was not intentional. In future i will back up my edits to a text file and cleanly overwrite any updates with that if i get signed out mid edit.

Heart of the Swarm
UncleOwnage
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark36 Posts
October 26 2010 20:08 GMT
#8
Nice guide, this will most certainly improve my off-race mechanics.

On October 27 2010 04:02 -Xios wrote:
As soon as you have set a new hatchery to be built and it begins its embryonic phase, follow these steps: hit 4 > CTRL+SHIFT Click the Hatchery > CTRL+4


I notice you use this technique for adding things to control groups quite a bit.

I've got a little trick for you that might make a good addition to your guide.
When wanting to add something to a control group, simply press shift+#, where # is the number of the control group. So for your example with the hatchery;

click the hatchery > SHIFT+4

and you've accomplished the same thing.

This mechanic is present in some other modern RTS games as well.

NB. I'm pretty sure it's shift, but it's so ingrained in my own play that I unconsciously use it, and might have misremembered the hotkey.
Awful
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
October 26 2010 20:21 GMT
#9
I'm still relatively new to the game and didn't know about that mechanic. Thats brilliant! I'll update the guide pretty soon with that (removing the old style i was using). Right now i'm a little busy. Thanks for the tip!
Heart of the Swarm
HardCorey
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States709 Posts
October 26 2010 21:05 GMT
#10
what a wall of text, phew. Its exhausting.

But really yah thanks for this I hope it helps some people out especially considering the major role Macro plays for Zerg.
Don't Worry, Be Happy.
nanoscorp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1237 Posts
October 26 2010 22:12 GMT
#11
Thanks for putting this together. It is good to see most of the elements of macro assembled in a guide. I feel there's room for more detailed information about larva economy, stuff like when to get a 2nd and 3rd hatch, when to squeeze out a creep tumor or two if you're going 1:1 hatch:queen. Overall though, good stuff.

Here's something I took issue with though:

Anyway,there comes a point in your base saturation where you feel like its time to expand (amongst other reasons, another time that is stated as good to expand is when you are attacking, although this takes allot more competence at multitasking). You ideally want to set your expansion up slightly before your base is over saturated so you have a minimal window of resource collection deficiency due to over saturation, more than 3 drones will deliver exponentially diminishing returns the more over 3 drones you have on each mineral rock, and as each unit of mineral is permanently removed from the mineral reserves in the rock by your drone, if that unit of resource has a diminished return, you have permanently lost the overhead not received by that drone due to deficiency, and as minerals are the life blood of production in starcraft 2, it should be within your best interest to minimize mineral loss as much as possible.


As I understand it, the diminished resource is effective mining time, not the minerals themselves. As you reach and pass oversaturation, your drones spend more and more time darting diagonally from patch to patch, waiting for their neighbors to leave. You still pull in the same amount of resources per trip, the trips just take longer, on average.
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-26 23:25:27
October 26 2010 22:34 GMT
#12
Interesting response, could you go into a little more detail about what you mean with 'larva economy' please? i kind of know what you mean but its a little vague at best.

And the point you raised about over saturation i will be sure to alter as soon as i'm not so tipsy (my girl niped to the shop and bought back a few beers )

i originally came to the conclusion of oversaturation after reading this:

+ Show Spoiler +
According to the income tool in the replay on a 8 mineral field 8 drones gather around 300-350 minerals. 16 drones will gathers around 2x 300-350 =600-700. The soft cap of mining per base is close to 8x3 drones, after this each drone mine 50% less (highlight not in original post) until you reach 8x4 which is the hard cap where additional worker won't make more resources.

Once you have reached 8x2 drones each new drone you produce after that will gather roughly half the minerals of a drone, if you make 4 additional drones after the 8x2 you will in reality only get minerals from 2 drones. If you make 8 additional drones after the 8x2 you will only be getting minerals from 4 drones. any more drones after 2x8 plus 8 is a waste of resources and supplies.
on this thread




It was essentially my presumption that the mineral loss was a hard-coded deficiency as an in-built game mechanic, my bad really. I will revise that aspect of the Guide.

Edit - fixed the oversaturation info issue in the guide
Heart of the Swarm
Wartortle
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia504 Posts
October 26 2010 22:45 GMT
#13
very nice, i wish someone would do this for terran, although zerg seems like the most complicated race to me macro wise (non zerg player, so may be 100% wrong).

nice post!
nanoscorp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1237 Posts
October 26 2010 23:42 GMT
#14
One key to proper zerg macro is having a good larva economy. The basics:

Your initial hatchery starts with 3 larva.
1 hatchery generates 1 larva every 15s, provided there are less than 3 larva present.
Inject Larva produces 4 larva after 40s, up to a maximum of 19 larva present on a hatchery.

Already we start to see a few ways to maximize larva economy: 1, keep your larva count low, so you don't miss out on any larva generation from the hatchery itself. 2, inject larva more than doubles your larva generation rate, from 4/minute to almost 10/minute, so use it! Almost, because the injection pop will put you over the 3 larva limit for hatchery larva generation. 9 and change larva/minute is a good estimate with diligent queen use, and it slips down from there as you let your queen sit idle.

Let's look at a few different setups and their respective larva incomes:
1 hatch, no queen: 4 larva/minute
2 hatch, no queen: 8 larva/minute
1 hatch, queen on injections: ~9 larva/minute
2 hatch, one queen: ~13 larva/minute, more tolerant of missed injections
2 hatch, 2 queen on injections: ~19 larva/minute

Now if you multiply the larva income by the cost of the units you want to make, you can figure out what kind of mineral income you need. If your mineral income is more than sufficient, say, pure lings on one hatch, no queen with 16 drones, your larva income is going to be the limiting factor in production. If your mineral income is insufficient, say, roaches and drones from 2 hatch 2 queen with 16 harvesters, you can skip an injection or two without larva-capping your growth.

With matched larva income and resource collection, you get a smooth buildup, keeping larva count low and resources down as well. If your larva production capacity exceeds your mineral and gas income, you have a couple options. 1) Bank larva: Just keep using inject and pile up larva at your hatchery. Effective larva income drops to 6 larva/minute with good queen use, but you can accumulate a bunch of larva for a big army when you need it. 2) Creep tumors: Instead of injecting, use the queen's energy for a creep tumor. Larva income drops to 4 larva/minute until a queen can inject again, but you get creep spread. Since there's such a sharp jump in larva income when your queens hit the field, and since creep provides many advantages, good players elect to spawn a creep tumor or two early with 2 hatch 2 queen openings.
ShaperofDreams
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2492 Posts
October 26 2010 23:57 GMT
#15
thanks, i will read this whenever i have time!
Bitches don't know about my overlord. FUCK OFF ALDARIS I HAVE ENOUGH PYLONS. My Balls are as smooth as Eggs.
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-27 00:04:26
October 27 2010 00:03 GMT
#16
@nanoscorp

Brilliant! I almost feel like pulling that post in its entirety and adding it into the guide with reference to your post!

I'll definitely have to add a section of larva economy to the larva section of the guide. If you don't mind me using your information written above as a basis, or if you would like to write something ( if not let me use that bit above) that would be brilliant.

As stated, i am still relatively new to Starcraft, and have written that guide based purely on the information i have picked up since getting into the starcraft community. Some of the more statistically sensitive information (like the figures you have posted) are still a little to deep into the mechanics for me to understand to a degree i feel comfortable passing on to others as part of a guide. so any help on the deeper aspects of the mechanics will be of great help, and obviously due commendation will be stated readily within the guide. I am happy for it to turn into a compilation of information from other members of the community, the guide as it is now is structured enough to be added to in that nature as far as i can tell.

Thank you again for explaining a little about larva economy to me, i will be sure to look deeper into that aspect and add it into the guide, possibly with a little help from you and others.

- Xios.
Heart of the Swarm
Calmwinds
Profile Joined July 2010
57 Posts
October 27 2010 01:28 GMT
#17
This is just a wonderful OP, the quoted below is really what I try to tell my sub diamond league friends.


The lack of this, in my opinion, is the defining reason allot of players are still in the lower leagues. They may be able to intellectualize and know about the concepts in question, but what they lack is an integration of these into their overall game awareness and reflex response while playing. Which is why this guide is written in a specific manner, as a progressive guide based on steps that build upon each other and rely on previous steps in increasingly complex relationships.
johanngrunt
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Hong Kong1555 Posts
October 27 2010 02:27 GMT
#18
Very well written, but one thing I have found effective in terms of hotkeys for Hatches in particular.

Just press Shift + 4. This will add the hatch to the control group without having to Ctrl Shift Click then Ctrl 4.

Just a small way to free up one of your actions.

All in all, I've learnt a lot. Very good job OP.
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
October 27 2010 03:50 GMT
#19
I have just updated the control groups section to account for the shift+# technique a few of you have mentioned, thanks to all of you that have replied so far. Keep in mind the guide can be looked at as a work in progress and if you ever think of anything worth going into it, feel free to mention it here and we can sort out getting it into the guide.

- Xios
Heart of the Swarm
azn_dude1
Profile Joined October 2010
162 Posts
October 27 2010 03:55 GMT
#20
For queens, I personally hotkey them all to 5 and hold shift, press v, and left click on all the hatcheries on the minimap (you can inject larvae using the minimap). You need good mouse precision and it's pretty fast once you get the hang of it.
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
October 27 2010 04:14 GMT
#21
@ azn_dude1

Of course its down to preference, but i find it better, and in regards to techniques being taught in the guide, to be able to physically 'see' your bases as you inject, mainly as you can see the state of your drone saturation as an aid in assessing what sort of drone/unit/OV ratio you need to be producing soon.

Of course once people are more comfortable with certain timing and mechanics, they can devise and settle for a play style they find more comfortable, but i personally believe this set up allows for the fastest root in developing said good timing as being able to 'see' the input needed to make a decision every time you inject really helps in developing an ability to asses the amount of drones u need to pump into ur economy.
Heart of the Swarm
denzelz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States604 Posts
October 27 2010 05:54 GMT
#22
I found the hotkey section to be the most helpful. The rest you can get better on as you play, but learning good hotkey habits is pretty critical.
JasperGrimm
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada100 Posts
October 27 2010 06:21 GMT
#23
this is excellent. Macro is easily the worst part of my game, thanks so much
Malhavoc
Profile Joined October 2010
Italy308 Posts
October 27 2010 08:37 GMT
#24
Excellent guide! I'll just get the chance to ask a question regarding unit creation (and drone in particular) from larva: you suggest to rally all the drone production to the same base, but as you notice too, this isn't always feasible (hidden expansion, unsafe path, etc), so you actually need to create some workers on each of the hatcheries to keep on saturating all of them.

As protoss, this is easy since when you have a control group with X Nexus, X clicks will just add a single probe production on each of the bases. As terran, this is somewhat tricky since morphed bases don't work exactly this way and aren't considered "same building", so you may end up queueing X SCVs on the same single Planetary Fortress.

As Zerg, this is even more tricky, as it seems the default behaviour is consuming ALL larva on one hatchery before using larva of a different one. So for instance if you make X drones, you get X drones on the same base. ... actually, now that I think about it, this may really be the same issue I have with different terran bases, since my first hatchery is probably a lair at least.

If that was the case, I would really like a patch which fixes this, as it really messes things up!
anathema
Profile Joined September 2010
Poland20 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-27 13:32:37
October 27 2010 08:43 GMT
#25
This is by far the best macro related guide I've seen.
Gotta write myself a note with things to check: Supply/Injection/Scout/Tech/Drone/Upgrades/Tumors xD
and keep doing all this at all times.

On October 27 2010 15:21 JasperGrimm wrote:
this is excellent. Macro is easily the worst part of my game, thanks so much

it was for me as well but recently I got obliterated in PvZ while having 4 Expo's, 10k minerals and average of 3k gas. It only took few Colossi and a shitload of Stalkers supported by by a handfull of DT's... T
Crackensan
Profile Joined August 2010
United States479 Posts
October 27 2010 12:21 GMT
#26
I quickly scanned over it, and will look at it deeper later, but it's really well written! Great Guide!
Tasteless: "Well this strategy is made of balls"--Concerning Fruitdealer Vs. BoXeR
thesideshow
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
930 Posts
October 27 2010 12:31 GMT
#27
wow. I'm going to have to set aside a block of time to read this. Thanks OP!
OGS:levelchange
ddog22
Profile Joined September 2010
11 Posts
October 27 2010 14:45 GMT
#28
Good stuff, OP.
I have a suggestion: it would be helpful if you could make some kind of step by step plan to help people implement this stuff. It's a ton of info to try to take in at once. My main problem(and maybe others?) is that I find myself constrained by my sloppy mechanics, so a lot of the 'higher levels' of gameplay/thinking suffer because I have to consciously focus on the mechanics.

So I'm curious if you have any techniques regarding efficiency of movement or training your hands to respond without so much conscious effort. Did you do anything specific besides just focus to get your mechanics down?
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
October 27 2010 15:57 GMT
#29
Well written and lots of new stuff for me, thanks! The idea to have an "all-hatchery" control group never came up to me, but it seems like an awesome idea to improve multitasking which is one of my main issues atm.
ziggurat
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada847 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-27 16:39:04
October 27 2010 16:27 GMT
#30
Edit: never mind, you answered my question in your guide, I just missed it.

Here is another question though. If you have all your hatches in one control group, aren't you worried that your units won't be made where you want them?

Say for example I want to make drones at my expansion and zerglings at my main. Isn't that a bit harder to do with your proposed setup?

Or say a big force is on its way to my natural and I want to scramble to build some units to defend. I want the units to come from the main and the natural, not from other hatches that are further away. Can you do this if you build your units using one control group for all hatches?
shuurajou
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom6 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-27 17:12:17
October 27 2010 17:10 GMT
#31
Minor suggestion to include in the guide around rallying new units to your army (not for everyone it's quite fiddly). Let's say I have a group of lings in group 1, already in the field. If I click my hatch hot key, and build some more lings (s, zzz) (let's say leaving 3 unused larva) I will CTRL+click the now morphing egg wireframes, then shift-1 it, so the 'in production' lings are now already in the correct control group before they have hatched. Advantage to this is as I move my lings around the map, the morphing eggs are following the same move instructions so will go to their 'brothers' in the field when they hatch. This avoids the issue of random secondary rally points which you've already rightly highlighted.

Also, thanks for the top on hotkeying creep tumors! Never thought of that before - I think it'll be really useful.

Question - why hotkey queen + hatch together, and not just solo queens in each group? This means you can utilise queens individually where necessary without breaking established rally points.
Talkerst
Profile Joined October 2010
124 Posts
October 27 2010 17:42 GMT
#32
A very excellent guide. I keep floating between silver and gold and advice like this will hopefully help me continue in a more positive direction.

There is one mental techinque that I use that I think could possibly fit in well with yours. You can add evolving larva to a control group. As an example, when I make new zerglings at a base I CTRL+click the morphing larva then do a SHFT+1 to add them to my first group. I do this pretty much every time I create something. This way I don't loose track of them and they are already bound to the group when they pop. This does require you to be at the hatchery when creating them but this often will be the case, at least for me. It also requires you to start all the units in one control group > assign to group before you start the next ones. It may sound complicated but like a lot of your control group advice a little practice and it becomes second nature.
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
October 27 2010 18:16 GMT
#33
On October 27 2010 17:37 Malhavoc wrote:
Excellent guide! I'll just get the chance to ask a question regarding unit creation (and drone in particular) from larva: you suggest to rally all the drone production to the same base, but as you notice too, this isn't always feasible (hidden expansion, unsafe path, etc), so you actually need to create some workers on each of the hatcheries to keep on saturating all of them.

As protoss, this is easy since when you have a control group with X Nexus, X clicks will just add a single probe production on each of the bases. As terran, this is somewhat tricky since morphed bases don't work exactly this way and aren't considered "same building", so you may end up queueing X SCVs on the same single Planetary Fortress.

As Zerg, this is even more tricky, as it seems the default behaviour is consuming ALL larva on one hatchery before using larva of a different one. So for instance if you make X drones, you get X drones on the same base. ... actually, now that I think about it, this may really be the same issue I have with different terran bases, since my first hatchery is probably a lair at least.

If that was the case, I would really like a patch which fixes this, as it really messes things up!



A patch to address that issue would be nice.

In regards to your comment about my suggestion you set your drone rally points from all hatcheries to the new expansion. I should have highlighted allot more that this is always very situational and depends on how saturated your other bases are. I personally only set the 'all drone rally' to my new expo if i am 'sure' all of my other hatcheries have at least more than 16 workers on each (and also as close to saturation as possible).

keeping tabs on each individual base, you should keep looking at the state of saturation of each. You do keep the individual drone rally points on each of their respective bases while keeping a close eye on the state of saturation of each. At the point any one of the bases becomes saturated (which usually follows the general trend of the order in which you created the bases), As my POV is generally over the base when i'm looking for saturation, i click that hatch then use the mini map to send my POV to my newest expo (or expo with least drones) and click the mins there. This keeps the individual rally for say expo 2 at itself while the saturated base will then begin sending drones to the base needing the most.

The state of drone saturation is always dependent on how well balanced you have maynarded to expansions, though. So if you intelligently maynarded to each base (so you keep roughly the same amount of drones on each base), keeping each of the individual drone rally points at each one is much more viable, as your state of drone saturation will raise much more balanced for each base.

It is in this scenario that then, once you have noticed all of your bases have roughly reached a state of saturation (for example 1st, 2nd, 3rd) as you create your 4th, it is 'then' possibly a good idea to rally all your 'all drones' rally point to the 4th.

To address the issue of larva the engines choice in how to use larva, you can also use the individual hotkey for each hatch (5/6/7/8 e.t.c.) and then TAB > S > DDD e.t.c. which will use larva from that individual base.
Heart of the Swarm
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
October 27 2010 18:25 GMT
#34
On October 28 2010 01:27 ziggurat wrote:
Edit: never mind, you answered my question in your guide, I just missed it.

Here is another question though. If you have all your hatches in one control group, aren't you worried that your units won't be made where you want them?

Say for example I want to make drones at my expansion and zerglings at my main. Isn't that a bit harder to do with your proposed setup?

Or say a big force is on its way to my natural and I want to scramble to build some units to defend. I want the units to come from the main and the natural, not from other hatches that are further away. Can you do this if you build your units using one control group for all hatches?


you can simply address this issue by pressing the individual hotkey for a hatchery then TAB > S > [unit hotkey]

Hitting tab moves the selected object from the Queen to the Hatchery., in which you can then use the larva from 'that' hatchery to make units. Remember though that the units will be issued a 'move to' move command and once hatched begin moving to the rally you have set for all hatcheries anyway,

I generally find it easier to use the 4 hotkey and build units from all hatcheries and set the rally to next to the base in question, that way you will have a defense hatch from that base, while also having the other units you made running 'to' that base as backup for the defensive force that has just hatched there. As you will be wanting to defend that base anyway, i would imagine you'd want as many units there as possible. So using this technique to me seems the easiest and least fiddly way of doing this.
Heart of the Swarm
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
October 27 2010 18:40 GMT
#35
On October 28 2010 02:42 Talkerst wrote:
A very excellent guide. I keep floating between silver and gold and advice like this will hopefully help me continue in a more positive direction.

There is one mental techinque that I use that I think could possibly fit in well with yours. You can add evolving larva to a control group. As an example, when I make new zerglings at a base I CTRL+click the morphing larva then do a SHFT+1 to add them to my first group. I do this pretty much every time I create something. This way I don't loose track of them and they are already bound to the group when they pop. This does require you to be at the hatchery when creating them but this often will be the case, at least for me. It also requires you to start all the units in one control group > assign to group before you start the next ones. It may sound complicated but like a lot of your control group advice a little practice and it becomes second nature.


You are referring to the E2A technique. I had a bit of a debate with myself about adding this into the guide.

There are some fiddly problems with doing this you see, which has been a constant problem with using this technique since early on in the beta. Blizzard decided to change the command issued to units that hatch from a hatchery with a rally set from it, from an 'attack move' command to a simple 'move' command.

This means that by using this technique can only be effective in very situational circumstances. For example it is easy to in early game rally some lings to your lings control group. But problems arise later in game when, for example you E2A rally some mutas to your harass group, if you are at the same time harassing the enemies mineral line, and by the time you have gone back to ur mutas and had to micro away from the base slightly, the mutas being rallied will often simply fly across the base and get shot down in the process.

A similar situation happens in situational circumstances when u are E2A rallying units to a force quite a way away from your base, especially if you have multiple bases spawning said units, as they are only issued a 'move to' command, it is often the case that they will inadvertently run into an enemy force or harass group and simply get shot to pieces as you are elsewhere, and due to the move to command, they will not take care of themselves.

Due to all of this, i find it only really a very situational thing to use the E2A technique, and eventually decided to leave it out of the guide due to the possible complications using this technique could cause for the people trying it out in games. I class that technique you see, a slightly more advanced one, as essentially, once people are more comfortable with meta-gaming, it can be a very powerful bit of controlling mechanic.

I may have to add a section about E2a as it happens, as it has been raised by you and a few other people.

Thanks everyone for your input so far, the guide is due to be updated, revised and altered in many little ways as new content is provided e.t.c.

I will say again, if any of you reading this feel there is anything worth going in there or gone into in more depth, please feel free to state it in a reply and it will be worked into the guide proper in due time.

Peace out,

- Xios
Heart of the Swarm
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
October 27 2010 19:26 GMT
#36
On October 27 2010 23:45 ddog22 wrote:
Good stuff, OP.
I have a suggestion: it would be helpful if you could make some kind of step by step plan to help people implement this stuff. It's a ton of info to try to take in at once. My main problem(and maybe others?) is that I find myself constrained by my sloppy mechanics, so a lot of the 'higher levels' of gameplay/thinking suffer because I have to consciously focus on the mechanics.

So I'm curious if you have any techniques regarding efficiency of movement or training your hands to respond without so much conscious effort. Did you do anything specific besides just focus to get your mechanics down?


I have been really thinking about adding a 'tie-ing it all together' section at the bottom of the guide explaining the overall thought processes and how they relate to physical button presses and clicks e.t.c., also providing certain example situations and explaining the thought processes going on in them.

As the guide is essentially a modulated guide, going into each of the elements in turn while building on the previous, what it still lacks is a clear explanation (or as clear as it could be) of 'tie-ing it all up' as it were. Part of that section will definitely be some form of 'to do' lists with step by step guides/things to practice in the map editor e.t.c. to help people develop the techniques on a more robust level. The guide 'does' have these elements within it already, but they are disparate at best, i have it in mind to create a section (as stated) with this information existing in a much more condensed and referable state. This will probably take time for me to do though, so patience is a virtue in that respect

In regards to your request for any tips on tightening your meta-game mechanics. The only thing that comes to mind is repetitive practice, at first it does take allot of conscious thought and physically looking at the keyboard and stuff like that.

But think about your ability at typing, it exists as a state of subconscious muscle reflex, typing the word 'concussion' for example happens very quickly and you shouldn't actually have to look at the keyboard when typing most of the word, as your hand 'knows' the minute and very specific differences in relative muscle contraction in relation to the distances between individual keys.

This is because through repetitive muscle use, you are developing the neurological connections, and by that i mean literally growing a part of your brain, specifically designed to carry out that sole task, which in this case is the tiny differences in distance between keys. To a point you do not have to think about it consciously, or look at where you fingers are falling.

This same concept works for you learning the key presses when playing Starcraft. Repetitive practice and sticking to the same system will help you eventually ingrain the muscle reflex of hitting the right keys at the right time accurately.

It may help you to really try and think about the shapes your hand makes and parts of your hand you are flexing when pressing certain buttons, as when you are making a conscious effort to be aware of the feelings, with an intent of developing it into your memory, your subconscious will act on this directive and it should speed up your development of muscle reflex somewhat.

Beyond that i would advise a few more things, firstly, go into the map editor, download a practice map or build order tester or something and simply practice hitting different hotkeys in relevant combinations, build things, practice certain elements of your mechanics, over and over and over again, untill you have that single thing really tight and acurate.

By this i mean literally build 100/200 hydralisk dens untill your hand 'knows' the pattern without you having to think about it.

Get 200 roaches on the map and practice adding and removing then from groups in the many different ways, stick to one way until you can do it without fail acurately every time, then try a different style leading to a different outcome (appending, removing - via the wireframe, by on screen, shift click, ctrl click e.t.c.)

Do there one at a time untill you are comfortable with 'that one' then move onto another, gradually do this through all of them, each time adding 'that' aspect, once practiced to perfection (or to a state you are happy with) into your collection of meta-game techniques.

Also do the same with adding hatcheries to hotkeys, changing rally points, issuing shift click commands in the various scenarios applicable, so on and so forth, basically do it with every element of your meta-game mechanics until it is muscle reflex.

You won't do this over night, but this is the best way for you to develop your control mechanics.

This is why using the same system of control groups is so important, as it is only this way you can truly develop muscle reflex, imagine a keyboard where the letters constantly changed keys, how long would it take you to type even 1 word?

Tis all about muscle reflex my friend, in regards to using the keyboard at least, and also with using the mouse, which is why it is important to find a sensitivity that is good for you and sticking to that.

Hope this helped.
Heart of the Swarm
Crackensan
Profile Joined August 2010
United States479 Posts
October 27 2010 21:32 GMT
#37
ya know, because Teamliquid doesn;t have stickies, this should be on liquidpedia2..... just sayin'. :D

Very helpful, and can be an eternal reference for Zerg players new and old.
Tasteless: "Well this strategy is made of balls"--Concerning Fruitdealer Vs. BoXeR
Morik
Profile Joined August 2010
65 Posts
October 27 2010 22:33 GMT
#38
A few other tricks:

You can add eggs to a control group. (I usually do this with mutas, my scouting drone, etc.)

for scouting drone:
4sd shift-1 or control-1 (the OP is incorrect--you can shift-# into an empty control group and it works fine), and rally to first scout point (or shift rally to multiple). When it hatches it will run off, and already be in a control group.


4bstttttttttttttt shift-3 for mutas

Control your already-hatched mutas as normal. Your new ones will come join the group (assuming you are issuing move commands/attack commands) as soon as they hatch.

One thing to be careful of is if your newly hatched mutas try to fly over your opponents army, or over their base. You may not want to add newly morphing mutas to a group right away if you are harassing in a situation like that, or think you may be once they hatch.
mDuo13
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States307 Posts
October 27 2010 22:40 GMT
#39
Predominantly Terran player here, but I like this guide quite a bit. I especially appreciate what seems to be your core message, that the key to good macro is developing habits and mental connections ("I hear the sound of larvae popping, so I make units, so I check my supply count, so I make overlords as necessary"). In future revisions, consider emphasizing even more that, unlike the other races, Larvae are essentially another resource that Z players need to manage and optimize.

One little nitpick that I can't help but point out, as an English major - you're using "allot" wrong here. That's a verb meaning "to divvy up" -- you want to use the phrase "a lot" (2 words) meaning "many" instead. (It's distracting from your otherwise very clear writing.)
SkyDiDeLY
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands51 Posts
October 27 2010 23:25 GMT
#40
On October 28 2010 04:26 -Xios wrote:
I have been really thinking about adding a 'tie-ing it all together' section at the bottom of the guide explaining the overall thought processes and how they relate to physical button presses and clicks e.t.c., also providing certain example situations and explaining the thought processes going on in them.

It would be even more awesome if you could do this. I already have this thread bookmarked Excellent quality. This should be an article on the frontpage or liquipedia or something.

Thanks.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
October 27 2010 23:34 GMT
#41
On October 27 2010 12:55 azn_dude1 wrote:
For queens, I personally hotkey them all to 5 and hold shift, press v, and left click on all the hatcheries on the minimap (you can inject larvae using the minimap). You need good mouse precision and it's pretty fast once you get the hang of it.

As long as you have a queen next to each hatchery, no you don't need good mouse precision.
:)
BadWolf0
Profile Joined September 2010
United States300 Posts
October 28 2010 00:02 GMT
#42
A suggestion based on the simple summary post earlier:

I'm a complete noob zerg. I switched from terran pre-patch, I was starting to be decent (gold) and am now bronze but havin shittons more fun :-) Anyways I had been looking for something akin to day9's "big 3" for terran and protoss as that gave me something solid to focus on. This guide (plus day 9) has been AWESOMELY helpful. A kind-of translation ive been using after reading your guide is the little mental heartbeat IUS:

Inject -> Units -> Supply/Saturation

I'm starting to actually have an OK (50/50) ratio as zerg up from basically none since switching thanks to just mentally always cycling through those 3, allowing me to mess around more in confidence of actually having a rythm. Not really that major, but it helps me to have 3 simple words to focus on so I figured Id pass it on.

All hail the Queen!!!
BadWolf0
Profile Joined September 2010
United States300 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-28 00:36:01
October 28 2010 00:18 GMT
#43
All hail the Queen!!!
Crackensan
Profile Joined August 2010
United States479 Posts
October 28 2010 00:30 GMT
#44
Ah, the dreaded double post.

Honestly, for Zerg, I would say Supply/Saturation>Units. I can only assume when you say units you mean fighting units, I.E: your swarm of kickass+10.

So, at least in my opinion, it should be:
Inject->Supply/Saturation->Units
Tasteless: "Well this strategy is made of balls"--Concerning Fruitdealer Vs. BoXeR
Botchu
Profile Joined October 2010
United States26 Posts
October 28 2010 04:52 GMT
#45
I'm a top level platinum zerg player trying to get into diamond
This guide helps me understand the basic concepts I already knew, but compiles it in a very logical way which makes macro a lot easier to understand

what helped me the most was putting all hatches on 4, and then each individual hatch+queen on 5,6,7,8 etc
I generally am very good about spawning larva, but i always used to click to do it because having all my queens on 4 and all hatches on 5 just wasn't efficient

I wish i would have read this guide when i was starting up :D
Never give up hope, trust your instincts!
KweefSpray
Profile Joined September 2010
4 Posts
October 28 2010 15:07 GMT
#46
This is a great guide for beginner zergs, and it proposes a good system for linking actions together as to not forget any one aspect.

However, I have to say the guide is QUITE poorly written.

It seems like this would be a lot more useful to beginners if you trimmed the fat a little bit. 40% of your paragraphs contain a run-on sentence (or just a needlessly long fluffed up sentence), and a lot of those run-on sentences are caused by you just stuffing in extra fluff words and phrases that really serve no purpose.

Here's one example: "What this guide attempts to provide is a coherent and progressive system on developing an underlying cognitive structure at integrating each of the important elements of macro efficiency into a unified and communicating system of thought triggers and critical thinking."

This sentence (like almost every one) is unnecessarily long, and could easily be reduced. Watch this: "This guide attempts to provide a structure for linking thought triggers and critical thinking". Bam, 1/3 the length and it gets exactly the same point across.

The post is chock-full of things just like that, and while I'm no English major, it just seems to me that your target audience (beginner Zerg) are going to be extremely discouraged from reading this, as you make it almost triple the length that it actually needs to be.

This isn't going to be graded, you don't have to fluff it up with all the unnecessary synonyms and adjectives! Someone who comes here at bronze level is just starting to poke and prod his way into actually "researching" the game, and if they see this as the typical structure for informational guides, they will immediately turn away.

Great guide otherwise! Just cut out the fat!
Shucklak
Profile Joined October 2010
2 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-28 15:22:11
October 28 2010 15:17 GMT
#47
I'd like to reiterate Kweefspray's note about the writing, only less tactfully. It's diction like this that gives the verbose a bad name.
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
October 28 2010 16:52 GMT
#48
On October 29 2010 00:07 KweefSpray wrote:
This is a great guide for beginner zergs, and it proposes a good system for linking actions together as to not forget any one aspect.

However, I have to say the guide is QUITE poorly written.

It seems like this would be a lot more useful to beginners if you trimmed the fat a little bit. 40% of your paragraphs contain a run-on sentence (or just a needlessly long fluffed up sentence), and a lot of those run-on sentences are caused by you just stuffing in extra fluff words and phrases that really serve no purpose.

Here's one example: "What this guide attempts to provide is a coherent and progressive system on developing an underlying cognitive structure at integrating each of the important elements of macro efficiency into a unified and communicating system of thought triggers and critical thinking."

This sentence (like almost every one) is unnecessarily long, and could easily be reduced. Watch this: "This guide attempts to provide a structure for linking thought triggers and critical thinking". Bam, 1/3 the length and it gets exactly the same point across.

The post is chock-full of things just like that, and while I'm no English major, it just seems to me that your target audience (beginner Zerg) are going to be extremely discouraged from reading this, as you make it almost triple the length that it actually needs to be.

This isn't going to be graded, you don't have to fluff it up with all the unnecessary synonyms and adjectives! Someone who comes here at bronze level is just starting to poke and prod his way into actually "researching" the game, and if they see this as the typical structure for informational guides, they will immediately turn away.

Great guide otherwise! Just cut out the fat!


Haha i was wondering how long it would take for someone to say something like this. Its an issue I've had for quite a long while. I write what i'm thinking and i think the way i do because its just the way i think, I've been moaned at by quite a few people in the past for saying things in overly complicated ways, sometimes missing that there is a much easier way of saying things. Its an inherent problem with the way my mind words thing, to myself.

The problem here is your condensed sentence doesn't provide (at least to me) the full picture. It is this point why i most probably write things in long ways, as the added prose describes the point in more detail, in as much detail as my mind is thinking about the point in question i am trying to bring across, and at least to me, describing things in explicit detail, in guides, seems to be a priority. I have the fear when writing sets of instructions, or things explaining things in general that i will be being to vague about explaining a point and the person won't 'get' what it is im trying to say, or be confused as to what i am referring to. Which is why i add allot of the time an explaining sentence after the prior sentence. ( e.g. stick to making rallies with your base rally point. The one you make with Control group 4 selected).

Yes there may be an inherent problem as allot of the, as you put, 'fluffed' content (although i personally wouldn't use that term as that implies a deliberate intent) may be bulking up the length of the guide overall and putting people off from reading it. What you are asking me to do to address this issue is essentially *cough* re-write the whole thing *cough*, and in a way not natural to me, which if done, will more than likely turn out awkward and strangely 'chopped up' at best.

This is down then i suppose to the opinion of the majority of people reading/using the guide. If it comes to a point where people are turning away from the guide because the wording is putting them off too much, then i will have to try to re-write it in a more condensed fashion. hmmm
Heart of the Swarm
Shucklak
Profile Joined October 2010
2 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-28 17:59:18
October 28 2010 17:40 GMT
#49
Redundant adj.: able to be omitted without loss of meaning or function.

A frighteningly small part of the para-sentence in question: "...a coherent and progressive system on developing an underlying cognitive structure..."

This system you've got in your head is "coherent" and "progressive." So without these critical, specific words, we wouldn't be unable to determine that this system of yours is well, a system, and therefore is cohesive. I can't imagine why someone would care to describe an incoherent system. This system is also progressive. Oh so, you follow it over a course of time, and one part of the system leads to another? That's great, because without that word, I'd have thought you might have come up with a plan that maybe unfolds backwards in time, or through a few new dimensions or something. But thanks to 'progressive,' I know that this system of yours PROGRESSES from one step to the next. I'd have been totally lost if you just called your system a system.
KweefSpray
Profile Joined September 2010
4 Posts
October 28 2010 17:53 GMT
#50
hahah, well... He definitely put it better than I could. The words aren't actually improving your description or detail, they are just mostly redundant / self-explanatory.

You're statement where you say "whew", and your comment stating "I was wondering how long it would take for someone to say something like this" implies that you already understand that your writing style is ineffective to the reader.

I know it's hard to change the way YOU think it should read, but you need to keep in mind your target demographic. This is an informational guide; it's not a short story. it needs to be extremely succinct and to the point.
MrKill
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada11 Posts
October 28 2010 18:04 GMT
#51
Thanks for this guide. I think some sort of functional amendment to the guide would be nice, you don't really go too much into detail on the practical of getting around efficiently and doing macro. I think were I struggle the most is the hotkey side of things. I tend to have my hatchery at 6 and I have been experimenting with queens at 5 now, but my speed has decreased as I'm getting used to that change. I usually group all my hatcheries in one hotkey unless there is an outlying hatch somewhere where I don't have map control between it and my main rally point.

Zerg macro seems particularly micro-intensive compared to terran and protoss. What I have a hard time with is when you have multiple bases and you have to go back and spit larva on every one, make sure your saturation is good, make units and make sure you don't supply block yourself. You have a different wp for workers on each base and If I'm feeling lazy instead of maynarding I'll set my worker waypoint to a new hatch and saturate it that way. (only when more than 2 bases)

I get a feeling that I 1) spend too much time spitting larva, 2) supply block myself too often, 3) run into situations where I have not enough larva past 3 bases from slacking in spitting and sometimes need an in base hatch.

Do you have any tips for efficient use of the hotkeys to remedy these problems?

If I have the hatches on different hotkeys I can tap the hotkey twice and go to them right away to spit, but then making units from all of them is a lot harder....of course hotkey on all hatches makes it harder to spit since double tapping the hotkey only brings you to the first hatch, but easier to make units.

Interested to hear what you all think!
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
October 28 2010 19:01 GMT
#52
On October 29 2010 02:40 Shucklak wrote:
Redundant adj.: able to be omitted without loss of meaning or function.

A frighteningly small part of the para-sentence in question: "...a coherent and progressive system on developing an underlying cognitive structure..."

This system you've got in your head is "coherent" and "progressive." So without these critical, specific words, we wouldn't be unable to determine that this system of yours is well, a system, and therefore is cohesive. I can't imagine why someone would care to describe an incoherent system. This system is also progressive. Oh so, you follow it over a course of time, and one part of the system leads to another? That's great, because without that word, I'd have thought you might have come up with a plan that maybe unfolds backwards in time, or through a few new dimensions or something. But thanks to 'progressive,' I know that this system of yours PROGRESSES from one step to the next. I'd have been totally lost if you just called your system a system.


I don't see why you have to be so aggressive with your point. It took a long time and allot of effort for me to write and it was not originally intended as a guide but a response to someone asking for help which grew over time and turned into what it is. It is also the first guide i have ever written to anywhere near this much of a degree. Keep That in mind when you respond with your opinions.

Making your point is one thing but offending me by explaining your point in such a brutish and offensive manner isn't adding anything constructive to anything really is it. I feel less inclined to take the time and effort to revise it when you verbally beat on me like that.

It has turned into something much bigger than what i had ever expected or intended, I have not been part of this community for long at all, and seriously did not expect 9400+ views in 3 days. Of course the guide would not cater for the grammatical scrutiny of everyone in such a wide audience, so i apologize for not catering for this possibility when writing it. I'm obviously going to have to re-write the whole thing using this version as a template, and make a much much better, clearer and finished product the second time round. This will take time, please don't expect anything over night. As the first time i winged it at best, writing as i thought and going back to restructure stuff into a better order, not intending on it turning into what it seems to have become, a naive error of mine as i'm not familiar with how active this community is and how readily a thread with a name like this would be snapped up by the attention of so many here.

But please in future, if you have any qualms about the work of others, be amicable about expressing your views.
Heart of the Swarm
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
October 28 2010 19:10 GMT
#53
Using the all hatches on 4 and all queens on 0, using minimap to inject, I feel it's quite effective (though a bit hard getting used to, I get supply blocked constantly and build too many of some units since I simply press 4 and spam what I need).

I have some questions though:
* How do you sync hatcheries? Should I simply ignore injecting in a hatch if another hatch is halfway done so that I can inject them all at once?
* Should I only build units after injected larva releases or is it good to build of the hatches 3 larva inbetween? Reason I'm asking is because I obviously realize that building inbetween is superior since you get units faster, but I'm wondering if the benefit from syncing and timing the unit creation is helpful? I'm thinking that if one gets used to always building a huge batch of units with each injection cycle, one can time expansions, tech etc more easily, and do techswitch etc with more efficiency.
Ishq
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway16 Posts
October 29 2010 00:39 GMT
#54
Thank you OP for this fantastic guide!

I play Zerg, and I know my macro is my weakness, and reading your guide has helped me realize how the rest of my play suffers from it.

When I play, my mind is mostly focused on what to build next, where to micro my forces, where to scout, what to look for, what units I need in case the enemy pushes (I often find myself supply blocked when he does). So I really need a more structured way of thinking about my macro.

If I can train my brain to instinctively remember to always check my supply and morph additional overlords right after injecting larvae, I only need to practice to get my injections on time =)
BadWolf0
Profile Joined September 2010
United States300 Posts
October 29 2010 02:53 GMT
#55
Hey just wanted to reiterate my thanks and appreciation for putting together something like this after seeing some of the writing criticisms. I definately agree with the people saying it should be condensed, or even just an extra very simple extra section focused on pulling all the information together could be added. However, as someone who thinks the way you write (who frequently gets told while talking to slow down) I LOVED having a huge wall of text to sit down too :-) so thanks again. If you want help editing, I am an English minor with a lot of free time. My forum posts tend to be pretty badly written due to me writing them while half asleep but I'll happily help "concisify" if you want the help.
All hail the Queen!!!
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
October 29 2010 09:33 GMT
#56
On October 29 2010 11:53 twstdletz wrote:
Hey just wanted to reiterate my thanks and appreciation for putting together something like this after seeing some of the writing criticisms. I definately agree with the people saying it should be condensed, or even just an extra very simple extra section focused on pulling all the information together could be added. However, as someone who thinks the way you write (who frequently gets told while talking to slow down) I LOVED having a huge wall of text to sit down too :-) so thanks again. If you want help editing, I am an English minor with a lot of free time. My forum posts tend to be pretty badly written due to me writing them while half asleep but I'll happily help "concisify" if you want the help.


That would be amazingly helpful!! I have allot of Uni work going on at the moment and cut into allot of time writing that guide in the first place. As it began as a simple reply to someone, and i kept going and going and going, to the point my girlfriend was going "wtf... your STILL writing that reply?!?!??" i had been doing work besides browsing TL, which took a dint as this guide seems to have appeared from circumstance which i'm now actually quite keen on turning into something substantial, help squishing it down would be ace!!

I'm feeling gathering a load of stats and whatnot and developing more of a structure for it, going in deeper into a few points and providing examples e.t.c. Basically i'm intending on turning it into an 'actual' comprehensive covers all areas guide for zerg macro and general game mechanics.

Gonna take a bit of effort mind you, but i'm all for it really. Yeh im definitely interested in a bit of help, you can give a hand with as much or as little as you want. Cheers
Heart of the Swarm
Evilruler
Profile Joined May 2010
Brazil116 Posts
November 05 2010 17:25 GMT
#57
Thanks, thanks, thanks ALOT. Don't bother with ppl saying it's difficult to read, I know you're working in a better version and I'm happy for it but as it is the guide already did a lot for me, a gold zerg trying to get better. It's just so much better to play having something to focus on in order to improve. Now I can finnaly try and master the macro system and the hotkeys problem is also solved. Thanks a lot, looking foward for the 2nd version. \o
MeedleyMee
Profile Joined September 2010
United States14 Posts
November 05 2010 19:47 GMT
#58
This is a great, great post man, something that's missing from these forums too often. I think you've inspired me to come up with a similar Protoss guide; I'd love to use some of your ideas if you don't mind. Particularly the crawl before you walk, walk before you run, and the separation of memory and awareness parts.

You touched on all the important things that new players need to focus on, and nothing they didn't. There's way too much "well I went roaches but he beat me so should I have gone muta-ling" thought processes going around, and everybody assumes they are ready to have that kind of mindset just because they know what they should be doing, but aren't executing it well enough.

Again, great post. I'm going to include some of it in my guide if you don't mind, I'll make sure to link to this guide for sure.
InThayne
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2 Posts
November 05 2010 21:22 GMT
#59
Condensed version of original post: Finish your beer and focus!

-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
November 06 2010 05:19 GMT
#60
On November 06 2010 04:47 MeedleyMee wrote:
This is a great, great post man, something that's missing from these forums too often. I think you've inspired me to come up with a similar Protoss guide; I'd love to use some of your ideas if you don't mind. Particularly the crawl before you walk, walk before you run, and the separation of memory and awareness parts.

You touched on all the important things that new players need to focus on, and nothing they didn't. There's way too much "well I went roaches but he beat me so should I have gone muta-ling" thought processes going around, and everybody assumes they are ready to have that kind of mindset just because they know what they should be doing, but aren't executing it well enough.

Again, great post. I'm going to include some of it in my guide if you don't mind, I'll make sure to link to this guide for sure.


go for it man! I'de be happy for you to take any of this you wish and add it into your guide. I am piecing together a mark 2, i know i haven't posted in this thread for a while but tings be happenin in the dark...

I'm happy its helping people out too, as was intended. I know a few people have pointed out that some of the way its written can be difficult to understand, so i'm kinda going through it and thinking about what i'm trying to say and condensing down stuff and clarifying it all out, i've also been thinking aobut adding other bits that have come to mind when playing/watching day 9/streams e.t.c. so tis all good. Its my birthday today!! so i'm not gonna be doing any of the guide today, but i'll be on it again some times very soon.

Peace out!
Heart of the Swarm
Pax
Profile Joined August 2010
United States175 Posts
November 09 2010 02:14 GMT
#61
Do not be overwhelmed by the vocal minority. This guide was very well written. Not once did a sentence derail itself, forcing me to go back and start it over. If the so called "target audience" can't deal with long sentences and complex ideas filled with nuance, I'm not sure Zerg, with all its complex and nuanced mechanics, is the correct race for them. (Perhaps they should stick to terran, where they can go, "Whoops, 200 energy on my CCs. 8 MULEs on the the gold!"? ;P) As far as I'm concerned, content should NEVER be dumbed down for the lowest common denominator; specificity and exactness are always to be desired, no matter the writing style.

Let's take the oft quoted example:
"What this guide attempts to provide is a coherent and progressive system on developing an underlying cognitive structure at integrating each of the important elements of macro efficiency into a unified and communicating system of thought triggers and critical thinking."
While this sentence could have better choice of prepositions, redundancy is not an issue. Your more antagonistic critic (Shucklak) erroneously implied that a system is inherently coherent. A system is just the relationship or dynamics between two or more things, be they physical or abstract- coherence is not a necessity. The word "system" also does not necessarily imply progression, though I will not expound on this point, as I've just spent a good deal of space on nitpicking.

Regardless of the validity of these people's arguments, it is my opinion that simplifying (or "condensing" as someone called it) content is an insult to the intelligence of beginners, as well as encouraging a trend which I believe is unhealthy. The argument that the way this guide is written is discouraging to beginners is by far the most demeaning thing in these unjustified, patronizing criticisms. Just because someone has not been doing something for as long as another person does not meant that they have the mental capacity of an eight year old. Furthermore, removing the nuance and complexity of this guide just encourages the mindset of mere mimicry in order to get some quick and easy wins, instead of attempting to arrive at true understanding, and in so doing distracts beginners from the things which actually make them better Zerg users and gamers in general.

In case it wasn't obvious, I love this guide. It was very well written, even before the original circumstances are taken into account, and opens the window into the depth of Zerg play to those who are struggling to establish a solid understanding of the fundamental mechanics. I would love to help out with the editing for the revised version. Shoot me a PM.
"Mankind censure injustice fearing that they may be the victims of it, and not because they shrink from committing it." -Plato
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
November 09 2010 21:48 GMT
#62
On November 09 2010 11:14 Pax wrote:
Do not be overwhelmed by the vocal minority. This guide was very well written. Not once did a sentence derail itself, forcing me to go back and start it over. If the so called "target audience" can't deal with long sentences and complex ideas filled with nuance, I'm not sure Zerg, with all its complex and nuanced mechanics, is the correct race for them. (Perhaps they should stick to terran, where they can go, "Whoops, 200 energy on my CCs. 8 MULEs on the the gold!"? ;P) As far as I'm concerned, content should NEVER be dumbed down for the lowest common denominator; specificity and exactness are always to be desired, no matter the writing style.

Let's take the oft quoted example:
Show nested quote +
"What this guide attempts to provide is a coherent and progressive system on developing an underlying cognitive structure at integrating each of the important elements of macro efficiency into a unified and communicating system of thought triggers and critical thinking."
While this sentence could have better choice of prepositions, redundancy is not an issue. Your more antagonistic critic (Shucklak) erroneously implied that a system is inherently coherent. A system is just the relationship or dynamics between two or more things, be they physical or abstract- coherence is not a necessity. The word "system" also does not necessarily imply progression, though I will not expound on this point, as I've just spent a good deal of space on nitpicking.

Regardless of the validity of these people's arguments, it is my opinion that simplifying (or "condensing" as someone called it) content is an insult to the intelligence of beginners, as well as encouraging a trend which I believe is unhealthy. The argument that the way this guide is written is discouraging to beginners is by far the most demeaning thing in these unjustified, patronizing criticisms. Just because someone has not been doing something for as long as another person does not meant that they have the mental capacity of an eight year old. Furthermore, removing the nuance and complexity of this guide just encourages the mindset of mere mimicry in order to get some quick and easy wins, instead of attempting to arrive at true understanding, and in so doing distracts beginners from the things which actually make them better Zerg users and gamers in general.

In case it wasn't obvious, I love this guide. It was very well written, even before the original circumstances are taken into account, and opens the window into the depth of Zerg play to those who are struggling to establish a solid understanding of the fundamental mechanics. I would love to help out with the editing for the revised version. Shoot me a PM.



You sir, have my genuine respect!

Your argument is extremely well written and you have made points that parallel my own feelings about the nature of how the guide is written.

I believe the majority of the guide is written in a way that taking any part of certain sentences away will detract from the clarity of the point being made.

Be that as it may, the overall structure of the guide follows more often than not a 'wall of text' nature with certain very important points camouflaged in amongst more remedial prose. My central aim in the revision is not to re-write the entire thing (i began to try and gave up before i had got very far at all due to simple not being able to think of a better way to say the things i had without detracting from the clarity already inherent in the prose... ironic huh) but to restructure the guide somewhat and create more sections/sub-sections. Also going into more detail with certain things, larva economy for example, as requested by a reply; and really putting allot of effort into clarifying the important 'instructional' elements in the guide by separating and organizing them in various ways through the duration of the guide.

I'm about to give it another big haul in a little while, need to help my girl cook some food first (rolls eyes...lol) but yes, been thinking about bits im about to add today.

so Pax, i am interested in you helping out, we could meet minds and try set out a definite structure if you like, or if you are more interested in the prose end of things tell me what you would like to take a look at and revise. In fact I'll PM you.

Peace!
Heart of the Swarm
nanoscorp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1237 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-09 23:29:46
November 09 2010 23:29 GMT
#63
You're welcome to use any or all of the larva econ section from my reply earlier. I'm now trying to get my head around combining larva economy with tech investments. Basically, if you're getting close to larva-capped, you can dump excess resources into tech (upgrades, tech structures) if you don't want to over-invest in larva production. For example: baneling nest and evo chamber instead of an extra hatchery for zergling production. Later on, the tech investments should let you make more efficient use of the larva, easing the earlier limits it placed on production.
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-10 22:23:47
November 10 2010 22:22 GMT
#64
Nanoscorp. Since your post I have thought quite a bit into larva economy and its definitely an area of zerg macro i've not thought into as much as i should have previously. I've noticed just how sensitive larva economy can be to different strategies, for instance it should have an effect onwether you are going to 1 base 2 hatch/2 base 3 hatch/FE/quick 3rd e.t.c. and also how many queens you get to cover your unit comp Vs income from said bases.

I've also thought about how this is related to the 'flow' of growth up until mid/late game where you're maxed food. In so much that as your expansions increase, therefor queens increase, therefor larva production increases exponentially your need for pre-emptive Overlord production needs to step up progressively to keep your self from getting supply capped as your 'en-mass' unit producing capabilities double/triple at certain points. This relationship seems quite obvious but what i'm talking about is the specific mathematical relationship between how 'much' this overlord production needs to increase per rota Vs which specific expansion strategy you're going for this game (2 base 1 queen/1 base 2 hatch 1 queen/1 base 2 hatch 2 queen/... e.t.c.)

Obviously this also needs to be related to the resource cost of the build (units) you're going for which follows through into developing your econ to support this, which inturn! lol, is related back to larva production, how much you are making per rota, and how much of that should go to develop 'enough' of an econ to support your build, while leaving enough for OVs to keep ur supply up, while leaving enough for units to defend/attack.

I can see that it's obviously a VERY important aspect of a much more advanced level of zerg macro, where if one wished they could break down the math and figure out the optimum situational ratio for bases/queens[larva]/Ov/drones in regards to their army comp/build.

I'm only really just dawning on the intricacies of this whole complex aspect. I would really appreciate it if we could go through this aspect a bit together and get down some form of robust bit to add into the guide.

In regards to that actually, i big plan of mine is to extend the original guide with 'advanced' sections within each category that goes into much more depth and advanced techniques. Larva economy would obviously fit perfectly in the 'larva' category at the top.

Xios.

edit: Pax! i know i haven't PMed you yet, got pulled away by RL issues. Bout to send you one in a minute.
Heart of the Swarm
FortuneSyn
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1826 Posts
November 11 2010 00:50 GMT
#65
Great guide. However, it was very hard for me to read it because your english is overcomplicated. Quick example:

"A note on expanding: It is very important when deciding to expand to ensure you are able to geographically cater for the possible protection of your expansion."

this means: dont expo if you cant defend it.


Since sc2 is a global community, some people dont have english as their first language, and even those that do its just unnecessary to overcomplicate the grammar.

KISS principle (keep it simple stupid)

Other than that, some of this stuff has helped me out so thanks!
Pax
Profile Joined August 2010
United States175 Posts
November 11 2010 09:26 GMT
#66
On November 11 2010 09:50 FortuneSyn wrote:
Great guide. However, it was very hard for me to read it because your english is overcomplicated. Quick example:

"A note on expanding: It is very important when deciding to expand to ensure you are able to geographically cater for the possible protection of your expansion."

this means: dont expo if you cant defend it.


Since sc2 is a global community, some people dont have english as their first language, and even those that do its just unnecessary to overcomplicate the grammar.

KISS principle (keep it simple stupid)

Other than that, some of this stuff has helped me out so thanks!

Ok, maybe THAT sentence had a little too much fluff.
"Mankind censure injustice fearing that they may be the victims of it, and not because they shrink from committing it." -Plato
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
November 11 2010 10:20 GMT
#67
I'm with FortuneSyn. Simplifying the guide is definitely not an insult to the intelligence of beginners, it's rather a way of showing tolerance to the non-native speakers of English in this community. The vast majority of people here will read the guide hoping for advice and direction when playing the Zerg race, they are not looking for an academic document.
Ctuchik
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden91 Posts
November 11 2010 12:36 GMT
#68
On October 28 2010 02:10 shuurajou wrote:
Minor suggestion to include in the guide around rallying new units to your army (not for everyone it's quite fiddly). Let's say I have a group of lings in group 1, already in the field. If I click my hatch hot key, and build some more lings (s, zzz) (let's say leaving 3 unused larva) I will CTRL+click the now morphing egg wireframes, then shift-1 it, so the 'in production' lings are now already in the correct control group before they have hatched. Advantage to this is as I move my lings around the map, the morphing eggs are following the same move instructions so will go to their 'brothers' in the field when they hatch. This avoids the issue of random secondary rally points which you've already rightly highlighted.


I do this all the time and it helps me immensely. I can get away with doing so much more with (relatively) low apm when I don't have to constantly update my control groups. The only units I build that I don't hokey this way are drones and overlords.

Makes playing off-race really difficult though.
http://twitter.com/sc2statistics
Pax
Profile Joined August 2010
United States175 Posts
November 12 2010 08:45 GMT
#69
On November 11 2010 19:20 Tobberoth wrote:
I'm with FortuneSyn. Simplifying the guide is definitely not an insult to the intelligence of beginners, it's rather a way of showing tolerance to the non-native speakers of English in this community. The vast majority of people here will read the guide hoping for advice and direction when playing the Zerg race, they are not looking for an academic document.

My point really is that we shouldn't OMIT anything. When I said that "simplification is an insult to the intelligence of the beginner", I meant the sorts of simplifications that detract from the overall meaning. We can all agree that the editing process is a good thing. However, over-editing and over-simplification that removes important information is just as bad as unnecessary complexity. As such, a balance needs to be struck, which I try to do whenever I'm editing anything.

On that note, the guide is now available as a wiki at http://zerg-101.wikia.com/. If anyone sees anything that they feel needs help, just go ahead and post it in its respective discussion page, here in this thread, or PM me or -Xios. I'll have -Xios put the url in the OP.
"Mankind censure injustice fearing that they may be the victims of it, and not because they shrink from committing it." -Plato
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
November 12 2010 10:47 GMT
#70
Use it and you can multi-inject very fast

[image loading]
Hectic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia159 Posts
November 12 2010 13:37 GMT
#71
Is there any reason why posts like these are not stickied in some sort of 'reccomended threads' post at the top of the forum?
Only if you beleive.
TempestMaker
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada37 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-14 00:31:55
November 14 2010 00:15 GMT
#72
Another option if you don't want to tie up separate hotkeys for each hatch/queen but still want to 'see' each base as you inject (to evaluate saturation etc) is the little-used camera hotkeys. You can use CTRL-F5-F8 to hotkey camera locations to your bases, then inject with your queens still all on one hotkey. ie: if queens are on 4, F5,4,v,click,F6,4,v,click, etc. Saves up unit hotkeys to be used for tech buildings, extra queens, scouts, creep tumors, etc.

Only thing with the above method is the default F5-F8 camera keys are pretty far from your hand's normal position. So I'd be inclined to decouple it a bit. Say, always use the minimap to inject, but after each inject, do a quick F5,F6,F7 to check the status of your bases. Should be really fast and you can still use the when->then to remind you. (But if you're in the middle of a pitched battle you don't have to go look at your bases.

On a tangent, was there ever consensus on whether changing the default shortcut keys is verbotten? It would be nice to remap those camera keys to F2-F5.

Edit: Backspace works too, but is further away, and I like the ability to have a key associated with each base. I do like the suggestion of binding spawn larva, cycle bases, etc, to mouse buttons though.
michaelhasanalias
Profile Joined May 2010
Korea (South)1231 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-14 03:14:21
November 14 2010 03:12 GMT
#73
just rebind your ~ (voice chat) key to town camera, and you can easily manage all larva injections with 1 hotkey for everything (or 2 if you prefer to keep queens and hatches separate).

It seems funny to me that people come up with these elaborate hand mechanics to use backspace efficiently when it's far across the keyboard from everything else.

Just move it next to everything else you click and don't worry about it.

Also, if you put all your queens together, they'll self-optimize when you spew a list of commands, and so binding each queen and hatch together is a terribly inefficient way to use your queens and hotkeys (and hatches, since you can't produce out of all hatches at once.


for me, 3 queens, 4 hatches (i use grid, so V if you're standard)

3 --> [~x(click)] repeat ad nauseum.... and you'll inject all hatches in like .25 sec.

I challenge you to find a more efficient way.
KR NsPMichael.805 | AM Michael.2640 | SEA Michael.523 | 엔에스피 New Star Players
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
November 14 2010 03:44 GMT
#74
Sorry to be a party pooper, but there was way too much fluff and not enough substance.
I'll summarize the majority of your guide for you:
1. Try to get your injections exact and on time
2. Right after you inject larvae, start building units
3. Make sure you build the correct units given the situation (refer to Liquipedia)
4. While you build units, make sure to mix in overlords and drones
5. Take gas quickly
6. Expand once you start to get saturated
7. Try to take easily defendable expansions
8. Control groups section

Notice how vague everything is. Some things are flat-out suboptimal (namely 4 and 5). When do you take your gas? When do you stop droning and start building units? What are expo timings for certain builds? Do you have any tips for getting injections exact besides just plain repetition? (For example, if you start building your 2nd queen while your first inject is almost done, your 2nd queen will finish with your 2nd inject, meaning you can start injecting synchronously with your 2 queens). What about extra hatcheries for certain unit compositions? You say this is a game of exact timings, yet you don't give any. Zerg macro is more complex than just getting things down mechanically. It's more complicated than knowing when to build drones and build units. It's more complicated than not getting supply blocked and not over-building overlords. It's more complicated than timing your tech structures, knowing defensive tech timings, opponent attack timings, expansion timings, gas timings, etc. Everything you've written (that's correct) will of course be helpful to your target audience (bronze/silver/gold). But if you really want to tackle Zerg macro, you're going to have to be more specific and more comprehensive. This "comprehensive" guide doesn't even scratch the surface.
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
November 14 2010 17:59 GMT
#75
I'm sorry you feel this way Saracen, I believe you are a high plat/diamond level player. This guide was not intended for you. Neither was it written by someone that is comfortable with the much more complex, deeper mechanics of zerg macro, as i am myself fairly new to Starcraft, I tried my best to put together the fundemental mechanics of good zerg macro, not zerg macro strategy, which i believe is what you are refering to.

As stated at the begining of the guide, the way it is written, 'fluffed' as you put it, is written in what someone like you may deem as 'un-necessary' because what the guide is more focused on helping the reader develop 'are' those basic underlying mechanics that is in my humble opinion the most fundamental issue stopping lower leveled players.

Amongst other reasons, why i had not gone into the deeper aspects of zerg macro is that the people who this guide is intended for should not be learning about that until they can actually efficiently do the basics stated, which is the aim of the guide.

The list you placed is essentially a VERY condensed version of the guide, but all you did was say 'this is what you do'. The big difference here, and the reason for the length of the guide is that in that little list there is absolutely no explanation of how to 'think', what steps to take, or what to physically press or where to look at things when. This is what the guide is for. A process people will benefit from that need help developing a system through which they can take steps to integrate all the points raised your fantastically short and to the point list (actually offering little to no help on how to get there practically) into their game awareness and reflex response while playing.

Obviously i needed to be a little more clear at the beginning of the guide, aside from writing who this guide was for, and explaining that it is a guide about the 'fundamental mechanics', so people do not get upset that it was not written to a degree of detail some people may be expecting.

I'm sorry i wasted your time by unintentionally pulling you into reading the length of such a long guide by possibly falsely advertising to you that there may have been something of use to higher level players. In the revision of the guide, i will have to make that point clearer.

In my defense i don't work for blizzard, nor am i a l33t gamer or any of that fishy jazz. I did what i could, and it seems to have helped enough people so far for me to be happy with. I will be trying my best to add more complicated aspects to a later version, but i am learning as well, so don't expect anything mind blowing.
Heart of the Swarm
-Xios
Profile Joined October 2010
England79 Posts
November 18 2010 11:45 GMT
#76
I've updated the first post with, well, an update of the progress of the guide.
Heart of the Swarm
acidfreak
Profile Joined November 2010
Romania352 Posts
November 18 2010 18:13 GMT
#77
As a new Starcraft 2 player with under 10 melee games played in Broodwar way back when I din't even have internet (lol) I can't thank you enough for this really really REALLY usefull information on how my favorite race, the zerg, works. I want to learn the game and be the best I can be and this guide was just what i nedeed to get right into learning the mechanics of zerg. You helped my learning experiente by a lot and i am really happy to so that you have great great plans to future expand this.

Again, big thanks for what you are doing, it is the best thing i found on zerg and I am the type of guy who likes to read on how to play the game I play. Your plans just blew my mind and I am looking forword to your website.


Keep the good work going and thank you for teaching me the mechanics of zerg macro.
You can't out-think the swarm, you can't out-maneuver the swarm, and you certainly can't break the morale of the swarm.
InTehFace
Profile Joined September 2010
29 Posts
November 19 2010 18:03 GMT
#78
Mind = Blown. Best guide I have read on learning and applying Zerg Mechanics. Wonderful job OP. I hope to see this info in the liquidpedia section please!!
Tjuhl
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany17 Posts
November 27 2010 23:18 GMT
#79
Added the following to my nerdbook:

"WHEN larva drops, THEN inject.

WHEN you inject, THEN build units (preemptive overlords > drones > units)."

brought me from mid gold to platinum, so thanks! :-)
Trying to be a good Overmind.
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