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Hi all,
Repairing units on the battlefield is pretty common, and I've often wondered just what I need to counter, or what I should expect from battlefield repairs. Sometimes SCVs are pretty impossible to target manually, and so I like to know just sort of what I'm up against.
Since repair speed varies based on the build time of the unit and their health, I tabulated repair speeds per repairable unit and defensive structure. Cost is a variable, but I don't find that all that useful, so I didn't include it. It's almost always cost effective for the repairer to repair a unit for any amount of time.
For reference, a medivac can heal a single bio unit for 13.5 DPS or so.
Unit Build Time Health DPS healed
SCV 17 45 2.647058824
Hellion 30 90 3
Siege Tank 45 160 3.555555556
Thor 60 400 6.666666667
Viking 42 125 2.976190476
Medivac 42 150 3.571428571
Raven 60 140 2.333333333
Banshee 60 140 2.333333333
Battle Cruiser 90 550 6.111111111
Planetary Fortress 160 1500 9.375
Missile Turret 25 250 10
Bunker 35 400 11.42857143
These numbers are per SCV, so, for instance, if you had 6 SCVs repairing a Thor, you would be negating 40 DPS worth of damage, or about 7 marines worth of fire, a bit more than 5 roaches worth of fire, or most of a Thor's damage.
However, 6 SCVs repairing a bunker on the other hand will negate 68.5 DPS, which is almost 12 marines worth of fire, a bit more than 9 roaches, or a Thor and a half.
Given that SCVs are not limited in the number that can heal a target, unlike a medivac which can only heal a target that is not being healed, they become incredibly powerful when able to heal in teams. Vulnerability depends on being able to manually target them, or the presence of Area Effect abilities.
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That bunker repair hps seems a bit ridiculous.. The pf I understand because it has 1500 hp but 11.42 hps on a 400 hp structure?? Where is the scaling there??
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How did you calculate the Health per second/repair speed per second for these units and buildings?
I had no idea that repair speed differed from unit to unit, only that it was increased significantly when more and more SCVs went to repair a particular unit/structure.
Also, I'd be curious as to how the mineral cost factors into this. Because if you attack a PF with 5 marines and they have to repair it for 250 minerals or more, would it be considered a cost effective attack? Or basically a waste of units.. (I'd say waste of units for this particular example, but maybe there are other early game instances where it would make more of an impact).
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The scaling is in that repair times are based solely around build times and health of the building. Buildings in general are ridiculous as they generally have high health compared to units. Planetary fortress is lower than the other buildings because it has the build time of the command centre, plus the build time of the PF added together.
I wasn't trying to make any judgements here, only present the table. My opinion is that things would work a bit more smoothly if there was at least an upper bound to how fast things could be repaired, much like a medivac. For instance, if all SCVs repaired at 4 health per second, and capped out at 3 SCVs repairing maximum. It would modify things like the strength of a planetary fortress, or very early thor+scv push. I'm not sure if that needs to be modified in the grand scheme of things though.
Another thing to consider is these numbers aren't absolute. If you can one-shot a building or unit, it doesn't matter how many SCVs are ready to repair it. There's also issues of collision and AI. If 3 SCVs on autorepair are kept busy healing another SCV that's getting hit by a single marine, then they're not healing the thor, and 6ish DPS is lost from the marine, but 18 DPS isn't being healed on the Thor.
You're not reasonably going to be able to make that happen, but that's just an example of how this is only a very simple model.
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I would definitely agree that there ought to be a cap on how many scvs can repair.. Ever try killing a PF with a 200/200 protoss army with 30 scvs repairing it and having the terran's army show up? /facepalm
...... And then watching the terran drop 12 mauraders on one of your expos and killing the nexus EVEN IF YOU HAVE UNITS THERE TO DEFEND ARGHH
Not to mention marines + thor + 20 scvs timing attack.. yes I've lost to that once lol
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On October 15 2010 03:00 [-]Ocelot[-] wrote:
How did you calculate the Health per second/repair speed per second for these units and buildings?
I had no idea that repair speed differed from unit to unit, only that it was increased significantly when more and more SCVs went to repair a particular unit/structure.
Also, I'd be curious as to how the mineral cost factors into this. Because if you attack a PF with 5 marines and they have to repair it for 250 minerals or more, would it be considered a cost effective attack? Or basically a waste of units.. (I'd say waste of units for this particular example, but maybe there are other early game instances where it would make more of an impact).
My numbers come from the Wiki entry on SCVs.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/SCV
According to it, the repair cost is 25% of the original unit cost. So if you have 10 SCVs constantly repairing a Planetary fortress for 6 seconds, it will cost 550/150. The reason I never mentioned cost is because if it is a building you want to keep alive, repair time and SCV time spent building a replacement will be equal, however, multiple SCVs can repair, and you end up paying a quarter of the cost.
If you have 10 SCVs constantly repairing the Planetary Fortress for 24 seconds, you would have negated 6000 damage, and it would have cost you 550/150. If you were to have enough Marauders to soak 6000 damage, it would cost you about 4800 minerals and 1200 gas.
If you were to attack a PF with 5 marines the PF would take almost no damage before it killed them, and would cost pennies to repair.
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yeah thats the reason thor hellion pushes with a lot of repair are so strong, cause 5 repariring scv can negate more than one ultra hitting a thor and most times in these pushes there ist nor more space than 2 ultras hitting one thor
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According to the math you did here, the bunker before the patch [which was 30 second build time] would have a HPS of 13.33. I guess that change was much more of a significant change than we expected.
Although the HPS is still pretty high at ~11, I think it's fair in light of the other defensive structures being so versatile. An empty bunker is useless, cannons and crawlers will always be attacking. Not to mention the regenerative shield of cannons and mobility of crawlers. Even though it is salvageable, in the heat of battle that rarely matters, so I think it's safe to say the bunker HPS is cool. =D
I do want to point out that the HPS for the most of the mech units is kinda slow. Banshees heal as fast as SCVs do? Maybe the mech units and the building repair times should converge a little more?
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@ Ocelot 5 marines causing 250 min of damage (which I think is impossible but, just assuming) would not be efficient because there is a time-dependent value of resources. 250 Min in units is (offensively and defensively) worth more than 250 Min in the bank. The PF has spent 250 Min, but hasn't lost any defensive capability. The attacking party has lost the 250 min of units, and the build time involved.
edit:
Also, if the repair ratio is true (I read somewhere that repairing a unit from 1 hp to full costs 1/4 the resources to build it), then 250 resource damage to a PF would be roughly 1650 damage!!! Hero marines indeed!
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What about robotic protoss units? All I remember was repairing a mothership was god awful.
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as terran you should able to kill SCV easily with select a small group of marine or marauder and hold shift + attack the SCV to kill them.
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EPT
