EPTVoid Rays in T v P - Design Flaw - Page 18
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
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wintergt
Belgium1335 Posts
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Veasel
Sweden159 Posts
Something has to change because they are OP in large groups. I played a 50 min game last week and when he had 10+ voidrays it couldnt serisly be stopped not by 20 vikings and bcs .... Its even more fuckinggay when they will just have full mana after first attack so second attack is not even worth trying even if u did "hurt" them first time lol Void ray op? YESSS | ||
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Zvendetta
United States321 Posts
Missile turret build time: 25 GS (can build 2/3 at a time) Stargate warp in time: 60 GS single Voidray Build time (without chrono boost): 60 GS Also take in to fact the time it takes the VR to move from the production facility to the main base. Even if a VR is fully charged, repairing SCV's will keep turrets alive. If VR's try to kill the SCV's, then the turret can have more time working on the VR. Engineering bays also won't take away from standard bioballs, if anything you can now grab +1 weapons. | ||
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Dreadwolf
Canada220 Posts
On October 10 2010 02:06 avilo wrote: The core idea here is that the stargate can be anywhere on the goddamn map, you as the terran have to somehow get an scv to 50 places on the map, without having it killed by a stalker, and then have the foresight to either completely blind build vikings, or happen to find the stargate through sheer scouting luck. If you do not find it...and didn't pre-emptively build vikings...or didn't go 3 rax...you lose the game. Build order poker is awesome isn't it? Starport can be anywhere on the goddamn map also and the techlab dosent event have an research animation its even more impossible to scout than voidrays, however i cant scan you too and feel like there is a production building missing. If its fair on one side wich is bad on the other? You could try to camp is ramp to preven proxy pylon being made to hide the starport? cant hide it if probes cant get our alive. You probably wont be able to camp there forever, but probably long enough to make him build in his base and then you can scout it. Meanwhile, even if i park an observer above your starport all game long and stare at it untill my eyes bleed, i cant know that you have cloak until you use it. | ||
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AcrossFiveJulys
United States3612 Posts
On October 11 2010 03:36 Zvendetta wrote: Engineering bay build time: 35 GS (extremely fast) Missile turret build time: 25 GS (can build 2/3 at a time) Stargate warp in time: 60 GS single Voidray Build time (without chrono boost): 60 GS Also take in to fact the time it takes the VR to move from the production facility to the main base. Even if a VR is fully charged, repairing SCV's will keep turrets alive. If VR's try to kill the SCV's, then the turret can have more time working on the VR. Engineering bays also won't take away from standard bioballs, if anything you can now grab +1 weapons. yes, but a good protoss can avoid your turret and attack at an angle to take out your bunker(s), and then take care of the turret. if you put the turret in front of your bunker, they can just kill it with ground forces. i think void rays were perfectly fine back when 1/1/1 was viable (pre tank nerf). as of right now, 1/1/1 and 3 rax seem to be the only way to deal with 3 gate proxy void ray, and both builds are bad if the protoss does just about anything else. | ||
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SwaY-
Dominican Republic463 Posts
Also it will be a crushing blow to P anti air which is the worse in the game. | ||
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ToxNub
Canada805 Posts
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On October 11 2010 00:38 ToiletDuck wrote: the stalker/void ray build is very very difficult to stop, even when you know it's coming. Look up Gnial's build and you'll know what I'm talking about. Here's Gnial's build I have a friend who uses it vs. me every game and I've never beaten him when he uses it. On ladder he has (no lie) a 90-95% win rate vs. T. I definitely agree that it's too powerful, though I'm not certain whether it's the stalkers or the void rays that make it too powerful. Is this some kind of a joke? VRs are considered auto-loss vs Terrans for the most part, and this build comes so late and is so easily scouted by one scan during the early game. You can tell easily by his troop count, 3 Gateway, and no Robo facility. If you can't tell what's happening then, you're just bad at analyzing one of the most clear cut all-ins in the game. It is braindead easy to see this with 1 scan, and if you don't see it, then you're either too stubborn or just simply bad and refuse to adapt. I'm sorry that P players are starting to pick up strategies where they don't have to play absolutely out of their mind to win, but you know what, that's how a balanced game looks like. You actually have to work for your win rather then expand/tech/eco up while being virtually immune to most things like T was for the past 2 months or so. On October 11 2010 03:48 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: yes, but a good protoss can avoid your turret and attack at an angle to take out your bunker(s), and then take care of the turret. if you put the turret in front of your bunker, they can just kill it with ground forces. i think void rays were perfectly fine back when 1/1/1 was viable (pre tank nerf). as of right now, 1/1/1 and 3 rax seem to be the only way to deal with 3 gate proxy void ray, and both builds are bad if the protoss does just about anything else. Brat_OK into expand = > Viking transition will shit all over this. Brat_OK's style is actally one of the safest openings in the game in TvP, and is only weak to 1 gate Colossai blind rush with no Observer, and even then you still have plenty of time to switch to Vikings/Mauraders. | ||
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Aeruthus
United States98 Posts
Just something to balance out the "if charged you're taking heavy losses" "if uncharged I just wasted 250/150". | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On October 09 2010 14:27 arterian wrote: There are a lot of builds all 3 races can't counter if they don't know they're coming. Bet you werent saying that when the raoch cost 1 food and had mega regen. The only way to beat mass roach was mass immortal so you need to perfectly scout it. Does that mean its OK no. Things will get adjusted, and it important to express opinions. As long as its reasonable and well defended with replays and free of H8 unlike BlizzForums. | ||
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mathemagician1986
Germany549 Posts
Zerg needs connected bases and at least 3 queens vs 2 voidrays as it is. With your change I have no idea how many queens would be needed, but as Zerg lacks a T1 anti air unit, it's a bad suggestion. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
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Jewbacca
Australia36 Posts
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lizzuma
United States301 Posts
On October 11 2010 05:10 Jewbacca wrote: I don't think the 3 warp gate and stargate build is that OP... it's powerful but if it gets slowed down sufficiently for the terran to get cloaked banshees then protoss is in BIG trouble, or if the terran just gets LOTS of marines and uses them well then the strat also fails. This is the last time I will post in a thread with so many useless comments coming from random idiots. You must have skipped the rest of the thread. How are LOTS of marines going to counter 10+ stalkers, sentry, 3 VR and maybe even probe pull with it? The fact of the matter is, they won't. Like iEchoic and link0 said (the only people really worth listening to here), you pretty much have to blind counter this build, and if you don't get lucky and go against it you've put yourself at an economic disadvantage. JUST today I played one game where I saw 3 gate with low unit count on my scan so I double bunkered my front, and instead my opponent just took FE, went 2 robo colossus and said gg. Honestly you and many others should be banned for such useless posts here. | ||
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GoldenH
1115 Posts
If you're trying to be cute when someone makes that much units, you deserve to die. | ||
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Megaman
United States19 Posts
Fittingly, the name of one of the diamond divisions I am in has Void Ray in its name. | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
By the time you know he's going for a VR push you cant just slam down 3 reactor raxes, you just don't have enough time to build enough marines to deal with the VR's + stalker army, if you just go pure marine his army just rolls you over | ||
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Jaeger
United States1150 Posts
Replay for the game I talked about earlier. Reading this thread makes it seem like that game should be impossible, afterall he didn't have vikings out, he didn't scout the stargate, he only had one bunker at the front. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On October 11 2010 06:22 Jaeger wrote: jimpo vs adel Replay for the game I talked about earlier. Reading this thread makes it seem like that game should be impossible, afterall he didn't have vikings out, he didn't scout the stargate, he only had one bunker at the front. The build isn't designed to beat mass marine+ghost with no walloff. Obviously mass marine ghost with no wall beats it. | ||
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