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I just played a game on desert oasis ZvP. I was on the top, and I noticed P was going an early forge, and his scouting probe skipped my base - I followed him to see a few cannons going up north of my base (under the cliffs).
Before my lings could get out, his probe made his way into my base to put down cannons behind my mineral line - sharing the pylon power of the north pylon. If I tried to attack the probe or the pylon, the north cannons would make short work of my units.
It takes a long time for pulled workers to make it down to where his pylon was going down, so I don't think I could have reasonably stopped the first cannons. If I pulled 5 workers, he just has to put down a second pylon - then my only choice is to pull all my workers. Once the cannons are placed, they're protected by the pylons so I can't get a good surround.
I honestly cannot come up with a theoretical way to beat this.
Thanks for any advice.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-151949.jpg)
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WOAH, ok first of all, that cannon rush would've been sooo much more effective if he just had the pylon at the rocks (so your lings have to run the long way round) then put cannons in your base using that pylon (getting the econ advantage at the start).
I guess the only thing you could've done was send your drone out faster to kill his probe, ~kill the probe~ so important. uhm, other than that you might want to post this on blizzards forums to show them the potential for such powerful cheese from protoss on this map. (the rocks probably doesn't fix the map but make it more broken in this case)
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I think you might possibly have killed the first cannon if you pulled drones immediately, but I don't think that would have been the best option.
What I think you should have done is planted two spine crawlers the moment your spawning pool finished. The cannon in your base would have finished a few seconds before yours, but spines are stronger than cannons and you'd have two attacking one.
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Perhaps you could get 6-8 lings out, pull your drones back, (make sure you have 300 minerals) send all your lings to his base to kill his probes and then expo at the high yield. With no probes and a bunch of immobile cannons all you have to worry about is him making cannons at your new expo, just use your drones to stop any pylons thrown down near by.
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You saw his probe coming with your overlord, you saw where he were going with his probe with your overlord at the ramp... You did nothing about it.
You see that probe at the 2minute, but go there first after 50seconds~.
If you would have gone there directly, it would look diffrent.
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On September 26 2010 02:40 Alzadar wrote:
I think you might possibly have killed the first cannon if you pulled drones immediately, but I don't think that would have been the best option.
What I think you should have done is planted two spine crawlers the moment your spawning pool finished. The cannon in your base would have finished a few seconds before yours, but spines are stronger than cannons and you'd have two attacking one.
I thought about this, but what's to stop him from putting down a second cannon? That'd force me to keep up with his cannons with spine crawlers
On September 26 2010 02:44 HappyCakes wrote:
You saw his probe coming with your overlord, you saw where he were going with his probe with your overlord at the ramp... You did nothing about it.
You see that probe at the 2minute, but go there first after 50seconds~.
If you would have gone there directly, it would look diffrent.
I saw it, but I didn't know what he was doing - I thought he might try to cannon my choke - I didn't suspect his plan at all.
Killing a probe with drones is right next to impossible thanks to mineral walk - and pulling drones to go down there and harass him takes SO long thanks to the crazy walk distance.
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I think all you had to do there was a-move some drones to surround and kill his probe as it headed towards your mineral line. Even if you'd scouted earlier, I wouldn't bother killing the lower cannons/pylon until a lot later, as they can't hurt you directly and the mining cost is high.
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I saw it, but I didn't know what he was doing - I thought he might try to cannon my choke - I didn't suspect his plan at all.
Killing a probe with drones is right next to impossible thanks to mineral walk - and pulling drones to go down there and harass him takes SO long thanks to the crazy walk distance.
Well know you do.
Pulling 3drones to kill the pylon right when it comes up should work.
Maybe not, those got loads of hp. ><
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On September 26 2010 02:53 jaj22 wrote:
I think all you had to do there was a-move some drones to surround and kill his probe as it headed towards your mineral line. Even if you'd scouted earlier, I wouldn't bother killing the lower cannons/pylon until a lot later, as they can't hurt you directly and the mining cost is high.
Well, it's REALLY hard to kill a worker of someone who knows what they're doing. He can walk through my units to the mineral line, and then it's just like 3 spaces to where he needs to put down the cannon. I'd be gambling the entire match on the hope that I can stop him from going those 3 spaces.
On September 26 2010 02:53 HappyCakes wrote:Show nested quote +
I saw it, but I didn't know what he was doing - I thought he might try to cannon my choke - I didn't suspect his plan at all.
Killing a probe with drones is right next to impossible thanks to mineral walk - and pulling drones to go down there and harass him takes SO long thanks to the crazy walk distance.
Well know you do. Pulling 3drones to kill the pylon right when it comes up should work.
But then he just has to put down a second pylon right next to the first... and I have to pull more drones than he's investing in pylons.
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But then he just has to put down a second pylon right next to the first... and I have to pull more drones than he's investing in pylons.
So you basically say "If anyone build in my base, I won't do anything about it."?
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On September 26 2010 03:10 HappyCakes wrote:Show nested quote +
But then he just has to put down a second pylon right next to the first... and I have to pull more drones than he's investing in pylons.
So you basically say "If anyone build in my base, I won't do anything about it."?
If he's building in my base it's a lot easier to deal with. This is way outside my base.
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If he's building in my base it's a lot easier to deal with. This is way outside my base.
Hows that? It's the same procedure.
If you would have pulled Xdrones the time you saw his probe going there. (From now on, when you know about that strategy that is.) You would be there right about when he puts down the pylon.
He either got to do A) Another Pylon (delaying his Cannon) B) Go Cannon and possible lose his pylon there for an useless cannon.
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I wish you couldn't walk through drones like you can. Can't surround for crap.
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Man, the cheese just get's better and better as the weeks go by.
I'm not sure what I would have done in that situation, besides going into some sort of bm rage before I left. Blizzard should put all the cannon rushers into their own cannon rushing league or something so they can fight among themselves.
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On September 26 2010 02:53 HappyCakes wrote:Show nested quote +
I saw it, but I didn't know what he was doing - I thought he might try to cannon my choke - I didn't suspect his plan at all.
Killing a probe with drones is right next to impossible thanks to mineral walk - and pulling drones to go down there and harass him takes SO long thanks to the crazy walk distance.
Well know you do. Pulling 3drones to kill the pylon right when it comes up should work. Maybe not, those got loads of hp. ><
I think it was easier if only people who know about howto counter it reply. Killing the pylon is pointless, since you lose mining time and another pylon is easy to build.
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On September 26 2010 03:30 jpaugh78 wrote:
Man, the cheese just get's better and better as the weeks go by.
I'm not sure what I would have done in that situation, besides going into some sort of bm rage before I left. Blizzard should put all the cannon rushers into their own cannon rushing league or something so they can fight among themselves.
Agreed, it is silly how they turn a strategy game into a rage quit game.
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On September 26 2010 02:58 fdsdfg wrote:
Well, it's REALLY hard to kill a worker of someone who knows what they're doing. He can walk through my units to the mineral line, and then it's just like 3 spaces to where he needs to put down the cannon. I'd be gambling the entire match on the hope that I can stop him from going those 3 spaces.
Ok, yeah, I've seen this work a few times but when testing it's either a lot of micro or blind luck. Often the probe just slides straight past a group of drones.
What would have still worked in this specific case is blocking the ramp with three drones.
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Earlier pool? You were going for a 14 pool, right? It would be kinda dumb if the possibly of this cheese forces early pools though. =/
Other than that the only thing I can think of is to thumbs down Desert Oasis. >.> I think this is the strongest cannon rush I've ever seen.
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On September 26 2010 02:50 fdsdfg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 02:40 Alzadar wrote:
I think you might possibly have killed the first cannon if you pulled drones immediately, but I don't think that would have been the best option.
What I think you should have done is planted two spine crawlers the moment your spawning pool finished. The cannon in your base would have finished a few seconds before yours, but spines are stronger than cannons and you'd have two attacking one. I thought about this, but what's to stop him from putting down a second cannon? That'd force me to keep up with his cannons with spine crawlers So?
Also, with a bit of micro possibly using all your drones, maybe a drone wall off hold position at your ramp, you could have taken down the probe before it put down the cannon.
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Uhh....you let the probe run by and did nothing. That kind of thing should immediately raise red flags and you should scout around to see if he's doing any kind of proxy.
I think you could still have stopped it even after the late scout. Just pull 4 drones for each cannon until you can get lings out.
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EPT
