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On September 26 2010 04:23 TheFinalWord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 02:50 fdsdfg wrote:On September 26 2010 02:40 Alzadar wrote:
I think you might possibly have killed the first cannon if you pulled drones immediately, but I don't think that would have been the best option.
What I think you should have done is planted two spine crawlers the moment your spawning pool finished. The cannon in your base would have finished a few seconds before yours, but spines are stronger than cannons and you'd have two attacking one. I thought about this, but what's to stop him from putting down a second cannon? That'd force me to keep up with his cannons with spine crawlers So? Also, with a bit of micro possibly using all your drones, maybe a drone wall off hold position at your ramp, you could have taken down the probe before it put down the cannon.
On September 26 2010 04:16 jaj22 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 02:58 fdsdfg wrote:
Well, it's REALLY hard to kill a worker of someone who knows what they're doing. He can walk through my units to the mineral line, and then it's just like 3 spaces to where he needs to put down the cannon. I'd be gambling the entire match on the hope that I can stop him from going those 3 spaces.
Ok, yeah, I've seen this work a few times but when testing it's either a lot of micro or blind luck. Often the probe just slides straight past a group of drones. What would have still worked in this specific case is blocking the ramp with three drones.
All he has to do is take his probe and right click a mineral in my base. While mining for minerals, workers can path through units. Unit walls simply do not work against workers.
Regarding why it's easier to attack a pylon in your base than outside... the answer is pretty simple.
If a pylon is being built in my base, I can pull 3 probes right away and out-dps the HP.
However, if he starts a pylon outside my base, I'm not going to get there until it's halfway done - that means I need to pull 6 or so drones in order to power it down.
If he puts down another pylon, then I have to pull 6 more drones. It takes longer to get there and get back, and I have to pull more drones compared to trying to kill a pylon inside my base.
Does anyone want to practice this with me? I'm apprehensive but there's gotta be an answer
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I'm at work, so I can't watch the replay, bit usually if you can't stop the probe or attack the cannon right away with workers, you need to build at least a couple spine crawlers to stop the progression of cannons. Sometimes you might have to mix in spine defense with some lings if he's ahead on build time. The faster you react, the more likely you are to hold it off.
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spawningpool behind mineral line and if probe runs through kill with drones(worked against me :x)
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[B]On September 26 2010 04:44 fdsdfg wrote:
Does anyone want to practice this with me? I'm apprehensive but there's gotta be an answer
I'll practice with you. PM me your character info.
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Zergling rushes always counter cannon rushes but if you not going for that build, then build spine crawlers around your base so he can't push any further. You'll be ahead in tech.
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Aye, usually, spine crawlers are a great defense against cannons.
14.4 dps for cannons, 15.6 dps for crawlers.
Using a queen and drones. and your crawlers, and lings, you end up slightly ahead, and you can kill the probe with them to prevent more cannons, and then also kill the pylons, plus he is forced to make cannons in his own base too to stop your couple of lings, and you get a free expo shortly after.
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I feel like zergling need a boost to speed without the speed update, having probe outrunning zergling? ridiculous.
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On September 26 2010 04:52 amaGAWD wrote:
spawningpool behind mineral line and if probe runs through kill with drones(worked against me :x)
Then the low cannons would hit the pool....
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wow that's really cheesy as hell... LOL
gonna put that in my arsenal of cheese tricks. I didn't even need to practice it. It's so easy to do I learned it just from watching the rep
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On September 26 2010 04:44 fdsdfg wrote:
All he has to do is take his probe and right click a mineral in my base. While mining for minerals, workers can path through units. Unit walls simply do not work against workers.
Does anyone want to practice this with me? I'm apprehensive but there's gotta be an answer I'll practise seeing if you can get a probe past my drones, I'm sure I could do it with a bit of micro. Sure it can walk through but its not invincible, once that probe is dead the rush is well and truely over and the protoss is behind on tech and 500 minerals.
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That's a hell of a sneaky cheese.
Timing is beautiful, and it sneaks a cannon right in.
Nothing obvious, aside from killing the probe. Let me think about it, maybe do it to some zerg and see if they figure it out.
-Cross
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On September 26 2010 05:05 fdsdfg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 04:52 amaGAWD wrote:
spawningpool behind mineral line and if probe runs through kill with drones(worked against me :x) Then the low cannons would hit the pool....
they are _low_, how do they get vision?
more like spinecrawler rape the cannons
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On September 26 2010 05:42 amaGAWD wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2010 05:05 fdsdfg wrote:On September 26 2010 04:52 amaGAWD wrote:
spawningpool behind mineral line and if probe runs through kill with drones(worked against me :x) Then the low cannons would hit the pool.... they are _low_, how do they get vision? more like spinecrawler rape the cannons
You place the pylon so that you can warp in a cannon up top, so when you move your probe up there to place it, the probe gives the lower 2 cannons vision to shoot the workers trying to kill the upper cannon.
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Well JPAugh and I tested this out a bit.. and reached a couple conclusions.
1) P CAN send two probes - one on the other side of the rocks and one inside the base. He can do a low pylon and low cannon that protect two cannons on high ground in power range of the pylon.
2) It's pretty foolhardy to try to send drones against the low pylons.
3) Killing the probe is a top priority, like any cannon rush.
4) If he does lay down cannons up north, match it with x+1 spine crawlers. He has a very definite max amount of cannons he can put down, so this isn't hard.
If you scout the probe coming into your base, you don't really need to see the low pylon - just keep watching the ramp and deal with that. Keep watching the ramp because he can put a cannon on both sides.
Not impossible to deal with, it's just new.
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On September 26 2010 06:00 fdsdfg wrote:
Not impossible to deal with, it's just new.
Just wanted to say, it's not new.
Had a guy do it to me this day, I floated away and raped him. 
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You saw probe go by (and not scout your base) at 2:03.
You see forge (Overlord) at 2:14.
You scout for the proxy pylon at 2:35?
4 drones per thing warping in kills it with minimal losses. You seek to kill, typically, the cannons that can't warp in until his proxy pylon finishes (2:43). His first cannon is partially shielded by the pylon so that may present some difficulty getting 4 probes to whack on it if he's good.
So keep a close eye on the minimap and scout where he lays down the proxy pylon. If you scout it late (>50% done) don't pull drones yet. If you scout it early, IMMEDIATELY pull 4 drones per cannon/new proxy pylon to kill that first proxy pylon. If you scout it late, 4 drones per new thing warping in. You will lose less minerals/second doing this compared to pulling all your drones, and he will be forced to keep canceling.
A PvP Replay showing it in action. The proxy forge is different, but the response is the same, 4 per cannon.
http://rapidshare.com/files/421270478/Steppes_of_War_-_PvP_cannon_rush.SC2Replay
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I noticed something else when we tested this on DO. The creep spreads enough on the bottom position that only 2 cannons can be warped in behind your mineral line. But if you get the top position, the back section has just enough room back there beyond the creep that 3 cannons can fit back there.
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Getting gaz so early, was your plan to get fast lair or speedling ?
You had so much gaz. Use it or probe out of gaz if you scout a fast forge.
Next time kill the probe if it is not protected by cannon or make sure it doesnt warp in anything next you mineral because the first cannons won't killed you. (Yeah all posters said that already )
Kill the cannon with more workers not pylons because cannon take long build time. You lost because of cannon at minerals.
Get a spine crawler and vision of his cannon with overlord if you had killed the cannon at minerals. Spine have range 7 and cannon 6.
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On September 26 2010 06:50 beridoxy wrote:
Getting gaz so early, was your plan to get fast lair or speedling ?
You had so much gaz. Use it or probe out of gaz if you scout a fast forge.
Yeah I usually go early gas on DO because Mutas are so good, it's useful to get them early.
In practice I did learn to pull them off gas if I see the forge first, so you are definitely right there.
Next time kill the probe if it is not protected by cannon or make sure it doesnt warp in anything next you mineral because the first cannons won't killed you. (Yeah all posters said that already ) Kill the cannon with more workers not pylons because cannon take long build time. You lost because of cannon at minerals. Get a spine crawler and vision of his cannon with overlord if you had killed the cannon at minerals. Spine have range 7 and cannon 6.
Well, no they both have 7 range.
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On September 26 2010 07:00 fdsdfg wrote:
Well, no they both have 7 range.
Yeah, right, nice fail of my part.
Always thought was 6, well will reread the basics.
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EPT
