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On October 04 2010 01:42 Dionyseus wrote:
Very cool concept if it works. Is this calculator including the cost of the fleet beacon for carriers?
No, it assumes you've already built whatever structures you need to build your units. This calculator is just for seeing how many unit producing structures you can have working at the same time. So it's about the resource consumption per second, not about fixed cost build-once structures.
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Is there any way you could change the amounts of bases to amount of mineral patches instead? For instance, on iCCup maps, your natural will have from 5 to 7 mineral patches, so you'll saturate at 15 to 21 workers instead of 24.
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On October 04 2010 11:00 justicewoot wrote:
Is there any way you could change the amounts of bases to amount of mineral patches instead? For instance, on iCCup maps, your natural will have from 5 to 7 mineral patches, so you'll saturate at 15 to 21 workers instead of 24.
Since a natural with 5-7 patches should (will most likely) produce 5/8 to 7/8 of the minerals per minute that a full base (8 rocks) would produce, you can convert the numbers into a percentage and just treat that as the maximum income instead (and tweak the other stuff to make it work).
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On October 04 2010 11:00 justicewoot wrote:
Is there any way you could change the amounts of bases to amount of mineral patches instead? For instance, on iCCup maps, your natural will have from 5 to 7 mineral patches, so you'll saturate at 15 to 21 workers instead of 24.
Done. You can now choose the number of patches for each base separately. I've seen some sweet community maps in the iccup. I hope they find their way into ladder roulation at some point.
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Very interesting to consider. Excess production is not a bad thing imo. This should give an idea of how vital expansions are to constant unit production though.
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On October 04 2010 07:30 Haploid wrote: No, it assumes you've already built whatever structures you need to build your units. This calculator is just for seeing how many unit producing structures you can have working at the same time. So it's about the resource consumption per second, not about fixed cost build-once structures.
So can I interpret this as the calculated consumed/mined percentage gives me an idea of my ability to tech up and expand as well as sustaining a desired build mix? For example, a 90% consumption gives me a very, perhaps outrageously, large margin to work with for preparing to expand or buy that upgrade I need.
BTW, thank you. This saves a lot of trial and error in figuring out your macro and avoid builds that wreak havok on your economy.
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why doas a overlord cost 1 control?
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On October 20 2010 21:26 Braunbaer wrote:
why doas a overlord cost 1 control?
It doesn't. Where do you see Overlord taking up supply?
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I am having an issue when trying a 9 Overlord, 14 Extractor build. It seems to build my extractor at 13 supply. Any reason for this?
Awesome tool btw, thanks for creating it.
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maybe this has been spotted/ explained already:
In a FASTER game MULES mine 270mins in his life (90sec) I think.
on your page it says "mule only" 2,9 min/sec *1,21 speedtime upgrade = 3,501 * 90sec = 315,81 =|270
what did I wrong..? or is there an error in your site?
Thanks
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I could be misunderstood but I feel I've found an error in your math for SCV mineral mining times. I feel also that after reading your method, mine (no pun intended) is inherently more accurate. On faster speed, I timed 1 SCV from the moment it spawned until the moment it returned the 1000th mineral. To ensure precision, I rallied the CC at the closest mineral patch, and saved right before the SCV spawned. I then repeatedly reloaded until I was sure I started the timer at the exact split second it spawns.
From then, twice in a row, I noted the time at 500 minerals and 1000 minerals. Both times: 500 = 9m:21s and, as would be expected, 1000 = 18m:42s. For clarification, I actually sat there doing and observing this through two 18m:42s sessions.
1000minerals/1122seconds=0.8912655971479501minerals/1seconds
In other words on faster mode, 1 SCV can mine as fast as .89 minerals per second.
But your calculator shows 1 SCV mining at .847 minerals per second (.7 minerals per second with a 21% increase).
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Thanks, I was going to research all this and do the math by hand because I can't code anything - gonna help me a lot, thanks again!: D
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@calculator interesting your comment - but not sure if you included the fact that 3 scvs on a mine digg less - than 3 on 3. So 1 on 1 mine might have the highest min/sec but once you have more than 2 the numbers fall down. Did you incldue this in your calculation?
my test shows: (on faster)
mines:
8 worker on 8 mines -> 40 mines /minute/worker
16 worker on 8 mines -> 40 mines /minute/worker
32 worker on 8 mines -> 32 mines /minute/worker
on gas:
1worker=44gas/minute(44/worker)
2worker=88gas/minute(44/worker)
3worker=116gas/minute(28/worker)
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It's true adding a third SCV doesn't increase production by .89mins/sec; wait time accounts for the diminished return. There's a lot of math and timing I want to rework, last night I was particularly interested in determining the maximum potential of a single SCV on minerals (specifically, the income generated by the first trained SCV, aka the 7th SCV).
My immediate goal is to work out the hard math and timing of the first/main base, the early early stuff, everything up until an expansion is established. My ultimate goal is to make a build calculator unlike anything out now, one that you can input your attack plan and it will automatically generate the fastest builder order that doesn't interrupt production of SCVs.
Right now it's valuable (to me) to note that an SCV (on an unsaturated patch) doesn't actually generate his in-theory income of .89/sec, but rather in practice he generates income of 5 minerals every 5.617977528089888 seconds, beginning 13.43 seconds after you spend 50 minerals to start his training. I don't know how far off topic I am but I don't think I should take it any further lol. I'll probably start a new thread with interesting specific timings, and my methods for determining them, so others can put them to valuable use.
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On October 29 2010 06:55 neverlast wrote:
In a FASTER game MULES mine 270mins in his life (90sec) I think.
on your page it says "mule only" 2,9 min/sec *1,21 speedtime upgrade = 3,501 * 90sec = 315,81 =|270
what did I wrong..? or is there an error in your site?
Thanks
MULEs last 90 seconds on Normal gamespeed, so that's 90 / 1.21 = 74.4 seconds on Faster gamespeed. If you take that into account, you'll see that the total mineral mined by a MULE comes to ~260 minerals.
Liquipedia lists 240-270 minerals for a single MULE, depending on the distance to the patch you put it on. I chose to assume the player makes a slightly above average choice on which patch to mine.
On November 01 2010 17:15 calculator wrote:
From then, twice in a row, I noted the time at 500 minerals and 1000 minerals. Both times: 500 = 9m:21s and, as would be expected, 1000 = 18m:42s. For clarification, I actually sat there doing and observing this through two 18m:42s sessions.
1000minerals/1122seconds=0.8912655971479501minerals/1seconds
In other words on faster mode, 1 SCV can mine as fast as .89 minerals per second.
But your calculator shows 1 SCV mining at .847 minerals per second (.7 minerals per second with a 21% increase).
Yeah, I did the exact same thing, only for shorter periods, and I did end up with roughly the same numbers as you. But that's on the nearest patch to the CC. You get less minerals per second from farther patches.
I also ran the same experiment with exactly one miner on each patch on a normal base on Steppes of War. My results there were completely in line with PiousFlea's calculations (link). An average mining rate of about 0.69 minerals per second per probe.
I also found the calculations of sc2mathematician (link), who comes up with significantly lower mining rates. I haven't been able to discover why his numbers differ from mine, which is a bit unsatisfying. 
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I seem to have found a bug with the minerals mined/sec calculation. The setup: terran calculator (but this happens for all races), 2 normal bases, 24 scvs each, with mules, geysers don't matter in this. Now, if I switch the first base to high yield, minerals mined/sec goes up from 33.0 to 34.8. Then, if I switch the first base base back to normal and switch the second base to high yield, minerals mined/sec goes from 33.0 to 41.4. They should be identical right?
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On December 02 2010 12:19 alcapwned wrote:
I seem to have found a bug with the minerals mined/sec calculation. The setup: terran calculator (but this happens for all races), 2 normal bases, 24 scvs each, with mules, geysers don't matter in this. Now, if I switch the first base to high yield, minerals mined/sec goes up from 33.0 to 34.8. Then, if I switch the first base base back to normal and switch the second base to high yield, minerals mined/sec goes from 33.0 to 41.4. They should be identical right?
They should, yes, and they are now. It erroneously counted all bases as high yield bases if the last base was one. I fixed it.
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I think you need to add functionality for building queens to the zerg production calculator.
I think this is especially important as we are going to see the zerg metagame evolve to include much more queen-centric builds (IMO).
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I do feel like the Zerg one needs a queen calculation, players like me use them.
but for now im just adding in corruptors and ignoring the gas they take
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EPT
