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On September 28 2010 22:02 Morfildur wrote:
Because you have to build Pylons to produce the Zealots. Every 4 Zealots you need 1 Pylon for 100 Minerals, that means your Zealots actually cost 125 Minerals (25% more).
3.57 Min/Sec * 1.25 (25% cost for pylons) = 4.46 Min/Sec
So very true.
There are even more hidden costs to the production of a Zealot, but they are very minute in comparison. For example, the time it takes for a Probe to move to the intended location of the Pylon and the short delay while it initiates the building are time it isn't spending mining. For a Protoss, the cost is usually very small.
For Terrans, however, there is a very significant hidden cost to each structure, since the SCV spends quite a while building it. A supply depot takes 30 seconds to build, that's the equivalent of 4 roundtrips of a mining SCV, or 4 * 5 = 20 minerals lost. Add another 8 seconds or so for the trip to the supply depot and back, well, you get the idea.
The true cost of a supply depot is in the neighborhood of 130 minerals, about 30 more than the displayed cost. Spread over 8 marines, it's an average of 4 more minerals per marine = 8%. I'll add a checkbox to include that cost, since it really does stack up. 
The math for Zerg is much harder and depends on a lot of factors.
UPDATE:
- Added a section at the bottom which shows you how often a unit is produced (like "1 Probe per 17 seconds")
BTW, if anyone has suggestions for calculators I can build, let me know (PM or in this thread). I'm wanting to build a lot more of them for all aspects of SC2.
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This is real nifty, I love it. One thing, though - I find it much easier to see say, 94% usage of minerals and say "Ok, I have 6% surplus" in my head than I do to see 20.99 minerals consumed and 22.4 minerals mined and say "Ok, I have 1.41 minerals per second surplus".
And while I can see the use of a percentage figure, seeing the surplus displayed as minerals per second gives me a better concept of what I can potentially do with the surplus.
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Lol , without this tool , I'd never know that I can't support building 1 Marauder , 1 Siege Tank , 2 Medivacs at the same time haha , I always thought it was just the right amount of gas.
Anyways , real nifty tool to have , and thank you a lot for it.
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Ooh, this is handy!
I like planning out build orders on my netbook, but always had trouble mathing it out :p
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Really great little tester. It looks like it's possible to support 100% roaches, just.
On a side (not bitter at all) note, mining without mules - 13.6 min /sec. Mining with mules - 16.5 min /sec. = 21.3% more mins for terran!
Not to worry, this merely means there's more of terran to obliterate with fruit!
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On September 30 2010 09:55 Fugue wrote:
And while I can see the use of a percentage figure, seeing the surplus displayed as minerals per second gives me a better concept of what I can potentially do with the surplus.
Gotcha, I'll add that right now.
On September 30 2010 16:46 voss wrote:
Not to worry, this merely means there's more of terran to obliterate with fruit!
Lol, this is probably the only forum where you can get away with that reference.
Actually, Protoss and Zerg build peons faster at no added cost, whereas Terrans have to spend 150 minerals and skip building 2 SCVs. I wouldn't say Terrans necessarily get the better bargain here.
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Really nice work. Offcourse there are alot of if's etc to the actual value of the numbers but it's very good to have a baseline to see how many production buildings you need.
In general protoss seem to make way more warpgates then neccesary (on 1 base or 2 bases and just expanded 2 gate and 1 robo is really enough if you chronoboost the robo).
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This is really, really useful. Thanks alot.
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On September 23 2010 22:41 Haploid wrote:First time poster, yay. Inspired by day9's latest cast, the noobie tuesday, I've made a little doodad to help you calculate how many unit-producing structures you can afford on any number of bases. You fill out which buildings you want to use, what mixture of units they should produce, and the doodad will tell you how much percent of your income is required to sustain it. In day9's cast, he looks at a replay of a gold-level player that builds 3 warpgates and 2 stargates off 1 base, and they are mostly idle, since he doesn't have the income to use them. The Protoss unit cost doodad is at: http://haploid.nl/sc2/unit_production/protoss.phpI'll add a Terran version probably tomorrow. The Zerg version requires a little more thinking, but shouldn't be too long after that. Update: Terran version available at: http://haploid.nl/sc2/unit_production/terran.phpUpdate 2: Zerg version available at: http://haploid.nl/sc2/unit_production/zerg.php
It's awesome work!!
Can you build a desktop applicattion also?
thx!!
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On October 03 2010 09:37 woody_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 22:41 Haploid wrote:First time poster, yay. Inspired by day9's latest cast, the noobie tuesday, I've made a little doodad to help you calculate how many unit-producing structures you can afford on any number of bases. You fill out which buildings you want to use, what mixture of units they should produce, and the doodad will tell you how much percent of your income is required to sustain it. In day9's cast, he looks at a replay of a gold-level player that builds 3 warpgates and 2 stargates off 1 base, and they are mostly idle, since he doesn't have the income to use them. The Protoss unit cost doodad is at: http://haploid.nl/sc2/unit_production/protoss.phpI'll add a Terran version probably tomorrow. The Zerg version requires a little more thinking, but shouldn't be too long after that. Update: Terran version available at: http://haploid.nl/sc2/unit_production/terran.phpUpdate 2: Zerg version available at: http://haploid.nl/sc2/unit_production/zerg.php It's awesome work!! Can you build a desktop applicattion also? thx!!
Why do you need a desktop application? Just hit ctrl+s and save the entire webpage to your computer.
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Wow this is pretty gosh darn awesome.. All my safe expand builds seems to be way too expensive =/
What comforts me, is that even HuK seems to be doing a 2gate colossi into expand build, and affording it =)
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Thank u so much for this. this will really help since i usually dont have enuf income to support my structures. very useful tool for all players.
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no mule, 1 rector-rax, 2 tech-rax marauder, 1 reactor-startport medivac, uses the exact same excess of minerals as vespene... neat.
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lol, no wonder I always feel super-gas-starved when building mutas:
Vespene Gas 3.8 / sec 13.33 / sec -9.53 / sec 351%
I don't understand how the zerg one works though, it doesn't seem like it's asking you for enough data. How many hatcheries, whether there's a queen or not, etc.
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Just realized why the zerg one isn't asking for that data. It's not doing any larvae calculation, just spawn time.
Zerg production relies on larvae. Any chance you'd be willing to add larvae consumption? That would allow zerg to get a MUCH more clear picture.
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On October 03 2010 16:07 Skrag wrote:
Just realized why the zerg one isn't asking for that data. It's not doing any larvae calculation, just spawn time.
Zerg production relies on larvae. Any chance you'd be willing to add larvae consumption? That would allow zerg to get a MUCH more clear picture.
No, actually, the Zerg calculator uses larva spawn timing, and completely ignores the unit spawn time. Only the number of larvae per minute determines how fast you can build units. You can find this under the header Income. Just click on Income and you can fill out the number of bases and queens you use. It also tells you how many larvae per second you can spawn.
On October 03 2010 11:02 mskaa wrote:
Wow this is pretty gosh darn awesome.. All my safe expand builds seems to be way too expensive =/
What comforts me, is that even HuK seems to be doing a 2gate colossi into expand build, and affording it =)
I watched a replay of one of Huk's games just yesterday where be did exactly that. He didn't actually continually use his warpgates once the colossi start producing. But he produced more warpgates units than he could've out of a single warpgate, so it's not like the second gate is useless. Plus, it's needed as part of his early game (one gate is so naked), and he can use it fully again when he gets his second base up, so really it's just a few minutes of partially unused gate-time.
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For people wondering how to fit it in, Chrono Boost increases production of a base by around 3%, so if you use it all, you should be around 96-98% of your mineral and gas consumption in order to still use 100% resources.
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Very nice calculator!
Although currently, it mostly seems to only be telling me what I already know due to trial and error, but I expect this will help me manage some of the more obscure compositions off 3 base a little more painlessly.
Thank you very much!
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Very cool concept if it works. Is this calculator including the cost of the fleet beacon for carriers?
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EPT
